Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-16-2014, 07:41 AM   #1
Guru
 
Irish Rambler's Avatar
 
City: NARBONNE
Country: FRANCE
Vessel Name: 'Snow Mouse.'
Vessel Model: BROOM FLYBRIDGE 42.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 828
Single lever control for bow thruster

Hi everyone, I hope this will be of interest to you.
I was watching a mature guy in a twin engine motor cruiser trying to dock his boat, he had 2 gear levers, 2 throttle levers and a bow thruster switch.

It was like watching a conductor of an orchestra, real sweet until it all went wrong, the more he tried to correct it, the more he got flustered, he became like a farmer trying to ride a racehorse, in the finish he'd damaged both his own boat and another on the pontoon behind him. Very costly...
That got me to thinking the problem through despite searching for answers from many techie type people at Morse, Teleflex, Seastar or whatever corporate name they choose for this year,disappointingly I got no straight answers and came up against a blank wall.

We've bought another boat and we wanted a bow thruster to make life easier for her ladyship and myself as the years advanced.
I wanted a combined single lever control with a bow thruster switch on it to make piloting the boat simple (I also didn't want to make a public spectacle of myself when docking the boat).
Morse make a single lever control with a trim switch for power boats, the CH series.
I shopped around and discussed my needs with Parks Masterson over at Hopcar marine, thankfully he quickly picked up my thinking and became enthusiastic and supplied me with 2 CH series combined controls and shipped them over to me, in budget, on time.

The result ? ? ?
Absolutely brilliant, simple, efficient one handed control over engine, gears & thruster with no drama's leaving the other hand free for steering.
Our new 'to us' cruiser has a long keel and to make her capable of being moved sideways I also 'fenced' the rudder.
The only problem I found was that the Vetus bow thruster had 4 wires and the CH series had 3, the solution was to fit a rocker switch from lower to upper helm, problem solved.

I hope this is helpful, if you need more details send me a message.
__________________
Advertisement

Irish Rambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 09:35 AM   #2
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,319
Was it this one?

Teleflex Marine, CH1700 Series Premium Engine Control, Single Station
__________________

__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 09:48 AM   #3
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,665
Hmmmmm. Good idea!

I like the idea of the trim tab use for the thruster. Not enamored with the design though.

Not sure if I could part with my pretty bronze Kobelt controls though.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 09:59 AM   #4
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Rambler View Post

That got me to thinking the problem through despite searching for answers from many techie type people at Morse, Teleflex, Seastar or whatever corporate name they choose for this year,disappointingly I got no straight answers and came up against a blank wall.

I wanted a combined single lever control with a bow thruster switch on it to make piloting the boat simple (I also didn't want to make a public spectacle of myself when docking the boat).

I think that's what some of the newer joystick controllers are about. I've seen adverts for at least one that isn't tied to pod drives, somehow controlling engines, bow and stern thrusters, etc.... and apparently can be tied into existing straight-shaft systems.

I forget the name...

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 10:02 AM   #5
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,482
I know there are lots of twin engine boats equipped with a bow thruster.. but for the life of me I have never seen the need in a twin.. a single you bet.
I am glad the setup works for the P.O.
I am afraid the trim button up/down would confuse me!, a joy stick is typically not to hard to grasp.. boat goes the same direction you push the lever.

I currently run a single, no thruster.. a twin with thruster would practically park itself!

HOLLYWOOD
hollywood8118 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 10:07 AM   #6
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,864
Just like single control levers versus separates...whatever you like, or used to and even to a degree the boat setup.

Hard sometimes to jump between all the combos...but if you have basic operating skills...and a lot of people don't and probably never will....it just takes a bit to get adjusted...hopefully not in the most demanding of situations though.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 10:59 AM   #7
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,118
It's very common now for newer boats, especially larger to have multiple control stations around the boat, all using a joystick, for slow speed maneuvering and docking. This is without pod drives. Simply linking engine controls and thruster or thrusters to avoid what the man encountered. And even if the old method worked for you 99 times out of 100 with no problem, this is still worth it. Being able to back into a slip using a control in the cockpit or side dock using one on the side sure are nice luxuries that one soon thinks of as things they'd not want to live without again. This is especially true when short handing.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 12:23 PM   #8
Guru
 
Irish Rambler's Avatar
 
City: NARBONNE
Country: FRANCE
Vessel Name: 'Snow Mouse.'
Vessel Model: BROOM FLYBRIDGE 42.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 828
Murray M, the 2 controls I used a(upper & lower helm) both are the Teleflex CH7541P type.
Down here in France there's a hire boat company which uses a joystick controls for a 10 berth 50' hybrid cruiser with a sail drive mounted underneath the boat with a bow thruster, great idea on a new build but they suffered so much with breakdowns with first time hirers with no experience that they've locked off some of systems off altogether.
Anyway that type of boat is above my pay grade and I prefer a functional boat and to be able to spend the money travelling.
I absolutely agree that a good skipper docking a single or twin is a joy to watch and likewise when they use springs leaving a dock.
My problems are that
a, the new boat is single engine by my preference for practicality of the cruising I do, and I don't wish to start up that old chestnut of an argument again.
b, my fine French wife and I are not in the first flush of youth and so we prefer to work smarter not harder.
c, there are no pockets on a shroud so we're going Ski-ing in our autumn years, Spending the Kids Inheritance.
d, I'm not a poseur by any means but I take pride in my boat handling skills and just like to get it right with the least fuss and bother to anyone.
These are just my opinions of course and everyone is entitled to their own way of thinking as to what suits them best for their own preferences and circumstances.
Irish Rambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 12:30 PM   #9
Guru
 
Irish Rambler's Avatar
 
City: NARBONNE
Country: FRANCE
Vessel Name: 'Snow Mouse.'
Vessel Model: BROOM FLYBRIDGE 42.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 828
ps Hollywood 8118.
Actually the controls are ergonomically mounted that to go right with the thruster, the trim switch is lightly held up with the thumb, obviously held down to go left, both helm stations are mounted/operated the same of course.
If I had a twin I don't think I'd bother with a thruster at all, but as I said earlier everyone has there own opinions and I respect that.
Irish Rambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 12:37 PM   #10
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar


 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,489
When I first heard the plan, it just seemed like a natural to me. When I'm maneuvering I seem to always have my hand on the throttle/gear control. Why would I want to take my hand off to activate the thruster? With Rover's idea you just use your thumb.

With one hand you control, speed, forward, neutral, reverse and where the bow goes. I like it. Leaves your other hand free to hold the beer as you back into the slip.

I think control manufactures are really missing a good bet if they don't come out with controls designed and marketed for this application.
__________________
Parks Masterson
www.hopkins-carter.com
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 01:59 PM   #11
Guru
 
Dougcole's Avatar
 
City: Carrabelle, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Morgan
Vessel Model: '05 Mainship 40T
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 799
Not sure how much this adds, but when we went from the old boat to the new we went from twins with separate gear shift/throttle levers to twins with electronic single lever controls. The controls beep when they go into neutral. I find it much easier to deal with, even though I ran the old boat for 8 years.
Dougcole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 03:32 PM   #12
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Single lever control for bow thruster

Viking did the same thing except with their single lever palm beach style controls.There is a button on each lever, look for th elite black dot.Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTrawler Forum1410895926.157307.jpg
Views:	213
Size:	139.5 KB
ID:	32860j
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 03:43 PM   #13
Guru
 
High Wire's Avatar
 
City: Cape May, NJ and Englewood, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,597
Great Idea!
An aftermarket set of replacement gear/throttle control levels for Morse with a rocker switch on top the gear lever would be nice.
__________________
Archie
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Englewood, FL and Cape May, NJ
High Wire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 05:47 PM   #14
Guru
 
Carolena's Avatar
 
City: DC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carolena II
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 32/34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 605
"I know there are lots of twin engine boats equipped with a bow thruster.. but for the life of me I have never seen the need in a twin.. a single you bet. "

this is exactly what went through my mind. Sounds like he felt he had to use all those controls to his detriment. Sailboat was single screw with no thrusters and we managed just fine. Our current boat is a single with single lever control and thruster. It is almost like cheating! I've learned to walk the boat sideways. I actually like to practice going in and out without the thruster just so I don't loose my single engine handling ability for that instance when the thruster decides not to work.
Carolena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2014, 12:07 AM   #15
Guru
 
Irish Rambler's Avatar
 
City: NARBONNE
Country: FRANCE
Vessel Name: 'Snow Mouse.'
Vessel Model: BROOM FLYBRIDGE 42.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 828
High Wire,
Actually a Dutch company make a single lever control with bow thruster activated by twisting the knob on top, while I was researching I spoke to a couple of skippers at the Dusseldorf boat show who had them and their complaint was that it was too easy to operate the thruster by mistake which is why I chose the Teleflex system to modify.
Love the boat name.
Irish Rambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2014, 12:31 AM   #16
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolena View Post
"I know there are lots of twin engine boats equipped with a bow thruster.. but for the life of me I have never seen the need in a twin.. a single you bet. "

this is exactly what went through my mind. Sounds like he felt he had to use all those controls to his detriment. Sailboat was single screw with no thrusters and we managed just fine. Our current boat is a single with single lever control and thruster. It is almost like cheating! I've learned to walk the boat sideways. I actually like to practice going in and out without the thruster just so I don't loose my single engine handling ability for that instance when the thruster decides not to work.
I guess if the boat was a twin with four levers to push/pull one could get confused... but.. the thruster is the lever that only moves port/stbd.. not much confusion there.

On a four lever boat the FIRST thing I would change is to do electronic single levers for each side.. then if the boat was a poor handling beast .. think about a thruster.

HOLLYWOOD
hollywood8118 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2014, 11:53 AM   #17
Guru
 
High Wire's Avatar
 
City: Cape May, NJ and Englewood, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Rambler View Post
High Wire,
Actually a Dutch company make a single lever control with bow thruster activated by twisting the knob on top, while I was researching I spoke to a couple of skippers at the Dusseldorf boat show who had them and their complaint was that it was too easy to operate the thruster by mistake which is why I chose the Teleflex system to modify.
Love the boat name.
Thanks.
A twist knob with a simple unlocking button would work too.
__________________
Archie
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Englewood, FL and Cape May, NJ
High Wire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2014, 01:54 PM   #18
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
I think that's what some of the newer joystick controllers are about. I've seen adverts for at least one that isn't tied to pod drives, somehow controlling engines, bow and stern thrusters, etc.... and apparently can be tied into existing straight-shaft systems.

I forget the name...

-Chris

Found it. "Yacht Controller" (yachtcontroller.com).

The ad says: "The smart alternative to pods. Easy to install on ANY boat." [Their emphasis.]

Apparently wireless, multi-helm joysticks, remote joystick control.

I can't tell from the ad whether this is about replacing or augmenting an existing joystick controller with their wireless ones... or whether it's about augmenting or partially replacing existing throttle/gear/thruster controls.

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2014, 01:01 AM   #19
Guru
 
Irish Rambler's Avatar
 
City: NARBONNE
Country: FRANCE
Vessel Name: 'Snow Mouse.'
Vessel Model: BROOM FLYBRIDGE 42.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 828
I guess you pays your money and takes your choice.
I've found that electronics on boats definitely work, but indefinitely, sooner or later there's a new type that doesn't speak to the old, can't get spare parts, repairs etc.etc.
I'm certainly not a minimalist but like to keep things as reliable, simple and effective as possible.

For those who enjoy electronics and multi stations I say go for it and have fun, but for my type of cruising things going beep and failing to work is not an option as both the Irish sea and the Med weather can be as unpredictable as a baby's butt.
As Carolena has said, you can make the boat go sideways with a little practice and my system makes that an even simpler operation by having one hand for steering and the other for all other commands.
Irish Rambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2014, 01:50 PM   #20
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar


 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,489
Before I shipped the controls to Ramble I of course had to play with them. I was surprised at how nicely the switch just fell under my thumb. Just press the top of the switch and the bow goes to starboard. Press the bottom and she swings to port. It was all very natural and intuitive.

Now I've got to get out on a real boat instead of just pretending to drive Ramblers boat in my office. Yes I made motor sounds, wouldn't you?

Rambler did you ever figure out how many amps the switch was rated for?
__________________

__________________
Parks Masterson
www.hopkins-carter.com
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012