Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-23-2014, 07:39 AM   #41
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,382
With an open seacock, I have a single point of failure (an upstream hose, clamp or fitting) keeping my unattended boat off the bottom. With seacocks closed, both the seacock and some other upstream failure would have to occur before the boat would sink, no? I'm not counting 1) a freeze burst or 2) a bad through-hull install/leaking adhesive, which would probably be a low-flow leak. What am I missing here?
__________________
Advertisement

angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 11:26 AM   #42
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,882
Freeze protection is a different issue. If you can get exposed to freezing temps below deck, that brings on a whole new set of precautions.

Also, if you are going to leave the boat for months, then it can make sense to close things off. If it gives peace of mind, why not.

Mine runs at least once a week, so it's a different scenario. I use mine often as a second car, nice being able to chuck a shore cord, turn a key, four lines and be on my way.
__________________

Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 04:18 PM   #43
Senior Member
 
nmuir's Avatar
 
City: West Vancouver
Country: Canada
Vessel Model: 50' Gulf Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 122
I close mine, incl engine seacocks.

As per another poster, I hang the engine keys near the seacock when I close them. Simple and means there is no chance of starting the engines with them closed.
nmuir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 06:21 PM   #44
THD
Guru
 
City: Seattle
Country: US
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,142
If you are really anal about your seacocks, and have a lot of money, GROCO makes motorized seacocks, close to $1K each. You can find similar remotely operated valves much cheaper from non-marine suppliers. If your seacocks are hard to get to, a company called T-H Marine sells "remote operation arms" for seacocks. Haven't tried either as ours are all pretty easy to get to.
THD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 07:11 PM   #45
Guru
 
mbevins's Avatar
 
City: Windsor
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Keeper IV
Vessel Model: 44 Viking ACMY
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,305
Way to much paranoia here. Good maintenance and insurance is all you need. I've got numerous seacocks all over the boat. I'd need a check list and an extra 45 minutes each way if I followed this rule. Just a minute Dear I need to rip up the saloon floor before we leave. What? You ripped it up when we got here 3 hours ago. Somehow I don't think it's worth the effort.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Trawler
__________________
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

mbevins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 07:23 PM   #46
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,864
If a hose is not under pressure, like the engine intake or the air conditioner or the genset, if the hose clamps fail....I will bet the hose won't leak a drop...well maybe one every once and awhile and only if way below the waterline.

Seriously...learn where the real threats are and stop worrying about the 1 in a million.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 08:37 PM   #47
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,669
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
If a hose is not under pressure, like the engine intake or the air conditioner or the genset, if the hose clamps fail....I will bet the hose won't leak a drop...well maybe one every once and awhile and only if way below the waterline.

Seriously...learn where the real threats are and stop worrying about the 1 in a million.
Yep - you try getting the baskets off, even after the hose clamps are removed. Ever manage to pull one off without using a tool or cutting a slit..? Ok…there's bound to be some one...
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 08:38 PM   #48
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Seriously...learn where the real threats are and stop worrying about the 1 in a million.
From 2008 BOAT US analysis of "Why Boats Sink at the Dock."

In 50% of dockside sinkings, water found its way into the bilge through leaks at underwater fittings. The majority of the leaks are at stuffing boxes, followed by outdrive or shift bellows, failed hoses or hose clamps, sea strainers, and drain plugs.


Hardly one in a million.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 09:17 PM   #49
Guru
 
mbevins's Avatar
 
City: Windsor
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Keeper IV
Vessel Model: 44 Viking ACMY
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus99 View Post

From 2008 BOAT US analysis of "Why Boats Sink at the Dock."

In 50% of dockside sinkings, water found its way into the bilge through leaks at underwater fittings. The majority of the leaks are at stuffing boxes, followed by outdrive or shift bellows, failed hoses or hose clamps, sea strainers, and drain plugs.


Hardly one in a million.
You'll notice hoses,strainers are at the bottom of the list. Stuffing boxes and out drive bellows at the top. Back to maintenance again. Also what are the actual numbers ? Saying 50% of sinkings sounds like a lot but in reality may only be a 100 boats a year. Which is a much smaller % of the population.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Trawler
__________________
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

mbevins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 09:41 PM   #50
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbevins View Post
You'll notice hoses,strainers are at the bottom of the list. Stuffing boxes and out drive bellows at the top. Back to maintenance again. Also what are the actual numbers ? Saying 50% of sinkings sounds like a lot but in reality may only be a 100 boats a year. Which is a much smaller % of the population.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Trawler
Whatever; it's not negligible. Part of my maintenance routine is shutting the seacocks when I leave the boat. Piece of cake with the sea chest on our Defever and I sleep better.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 10:07 PM   #51
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,561
One sinking is one sinking too many for me if it`s my boat.
Too easy. Visit the ER, swing 3 handles 90 deg, same time as I check the Racor bowls. Plus the head, outside the ER.
Nearly forgot, had to slide the lock collars on each of 4 handles.( Unintended "Two Ronnies" joke embedded there).
Seriously, little effort to remove a risk.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 10:21 PM   #52
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,669
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus99 View Post
Whatever; it's not negligible. Part of my maintenance routine is shutting the seacocks when I leave the boat. Piece of cake with the sea chest on our Defever and I sleep better.
Ah, now the truth comes out - you can do that because it's so easy - one sea chest to access and close. So, yeah….keep on doing that, because it makes sense in your situation.

However, I draw the line at having to do what mbevins rather colourfully described below as what his coming home with a hot engine room routine would mean to do that, because it describes what I would have to do also…

"Just a minute Dear I need to rip up the saloon floor before we leave". "What? You ripped it up when we got here 3 hours ago."
"Somehow I don't think it's worth the effort."

In my case, a detent in the handle, now under the engine room floor anyway, (se pic post 13) prevents me putting an extension on it and activating it from further away, especially as they installed it with the handle movement across the beam instead of fore & aft, like the one it replaced was. That said, the thruhull, strainer and hose are all new, so it's a statistical likelihood thing really.
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 10:27 PM   #53
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
If a hose is not under pressure, like the engine intake or the air conditioner or the genset, if the hose clamps fail....I will bet the hose won't leak a drop...well maybe one every once and awhile and only if way below the waterline.

Seriously...learn where the real threats are and stop worrying about the 1 in a million.
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 10:53 PM   #54
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,178
Guilty. I rarely exercise my seacocks except on maintenance days. Engine and genset more often. I'd love to have a sea-chest setup, Photoshop below ordered by Bruce.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	gilligan and seacock.jpg
Views:	817
Size:	87.0 KB
ID:	35724  
__________________
Larry

"I'd rather be happy than dignified".
healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 11:38 PM   #55
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by healhustler View Post
Guilty. I'd love to have a sea-chest setup,
They're pretty cool. There are 8 through hulls on our sea chest (two of them not used), which makes operating the valves a breeze. I may change out the old yellow-handled seacocks this winter since they no longer make parts for them.

angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 07:35 AM   #56
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus99 View Post
From 2008 BOAT US analysis of "Why Boats Sink at the Dock."

In 50% of dockside sinkings, water found its way into the bilge through leaks at underwater fittings. The majority of the leaks are at stuffing boxes, followed by outdrive or shift bellows, failed hoses or hose clamps, sea strainers, and drain plugs.


Hardly one in a million.
Of boats that sink....and claims put in or reported to USCG....many are not.

I have helped raise hundreds in the last couple of years for an assistance towing company...I disagree with a bunch of those investigators...and I have accident investigation training from several prestigious universities....not the school of hull tapping.

I work with a guy who is up there...almost a pathologist in boat sinkings....it is easy to say hose clamp when it is way more complex but you get paid the same for a one page report or 30 pages.

Sorry....but while the BoatUS report has its place, it is far from painting a clear picture.

Read what you posted....shaft packing and outdrive bellows....hardly anything a seacock will help.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 08:13 AM   #57
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,735
Also the pics that BoatUS shows of failed hoses and clamps are not what my equipment looks like. I check things very well annually, combined with several good visual inspections thru out the season so failed components due to being old is not on my agenda.
I'd rather spend my time worrying about whether I have enough ice.
__________________
Jay Leonard
Attitude Adjustment
40 Albin
Mystic,Ct
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 08:20 AM   #58
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,725
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus99 View Post
They're pretty cool. There are 8 through hulls on our sea chest (two of them not used), which makes operating the valves a breeze. I may change out the old yellow-handled seacocks this winter since they no longer make parts for them.

I'd plug the unused one on the right and remove the handle. You could easily hit the handle. With no plug and you wouldn't even know it till the bilge pump went on or heaven for bid, the pump failed and ....
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 08:25 AM   #59
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,382
OK, guys. Whether it's a frequent or rare cause of sinkings doesn't matter to me. A friend who is a lifelong blue-water sailor used to tell me the best sailors he knew always treated their boats like they were trying to sink from under them--whether underway or at the dock. We all choose what to worry about and I choose not to worry about potential water intrusions from hose failures, etc. by shutting the seacocks while I'm away from the boat. I'm aware that there are are other, more likely causes . . . but if the worst happened it is not going to matter to me that there was a .00001 percent or 10 percent chance. It's a 60-second job for me and a total no-brainer.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 08:27 AM   #60
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
I'd plug the unused one on the right and remove the handle. You could easily hit the handle. With no plug and you wouldn't even know it till the bilge pump went on or heaven for bid, the pump failed and ....
Thanks, Larry. Good advice. It's an old photo; it's plugged now.
__________________

angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012