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Old 03-08-2012, 02:13 PM   #21
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RE: sanitation hoses

Marin...You used Trident 101--black double walled rubber hose with green stripe? Or was it Trident #148 "Extra Heavy Duty" white sanitation hose (which permeated on my own boat in less than 90 days!)?

The buildup in hoses is sea water calcium carbonate, which forms in anaerobic conditions...such AS the insides of hoses. Salt and urine crystals are also an "ingredient," but only a very minor amount.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:14 PM   #22
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RE: sanitation hoses

Quote:
RickB wrote:psneeld wrote:not sure there's more of a chemical reaction than straight salt build up or not.
*It is easy to tell, taste it.

*Nah...I'm no expert... I'll leave it to them.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:05 PM   #23
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RE: sanitation hoses

Quote:
psneeld wrote:HeadMistress wrote:psneeld wrote:My boat had HUGE sanitation hose*issues so I got rid of the sal****er and hand pumps. On the one head...I just removed the hand pump and used an elbow to let it fall into a hose leading to a cheap macerator pump. Now I can use inexpensive vinyl hose to the holding tank*versus expensive sasnitation hose (because nothing really lays in it)...plus guests like the push button flush versus the standard pump flush.
*Waste doesn't have to lay in a hose to permeate it...and you will find out just how quickly vinyl hose absorbs waste that passes through it.* When it does, bite the bullet and replace it with Trident 101 sanitation hose...it's been on the market for nearly 20 years without a single reported odor permeation failure, so in the end it will actually cost you LESS to re-hose with it once compared to replacing cheap water hose every couple of years.

And if when you sell the boat, also replace that jury-rigged toilet with a real one before you put it on the market...'cuz any moderately knowledgeable buyer who sees something like that on boat the size of yours will wonder what else you jury rigged cheap that he can't see and walk away.

*I bet it will go a lot longer than you "guess".

Jury rigged???* I would say that most boat head systems are jury rigged or a flat out a disaster from the factory WITH the manufacturers recommendations.

Mine is simple, inexpensive, easy to repair, etc...etc...hard to say that about MOST marine toilets.

30 year old trawlers usually have a lot more to worry about than that piece of hose. Bought mine with "approved systems that were failed in no time" that's why I designed a "better" system...not one to make someone some money.

Don't call my advice "jury rigged" and I woun't attack your advice on "merchandise".

*

I have to agree with Peggie on the "jury rigged" advice.* If it works for you, that's fine, but just as she advised, If I was looking at a boat to buy and saw something like that, I would run, not walk away.* I think this would be typical of most boat buyers.

*
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:38 PM   #24
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sanitation hoses

Quote:
rwidman wrote:psneeld wrote:HeadMistress wrote:psneeld wrote:My boat had HUGE sanitation hose*issues so I got rid of the sal****er and hand pumps. On the one head...I just removed the hand pump and used an elbow to let it fall into a hose leading to a cheap macerator pump. Now I can use inexpensive vinyl hose to the holding tank*versus expensive sasnitation hose (because nothing really lays in it)...plus guests like the push button flush versus the standard pump flush.
*Waste doesn't have to lay in a hose to permeate it...and you will find out just how quickly vinyl hose absorbs waste that passes through it.* When it does, bite the bullet and replace it with Trident 101 sanitation hose...it's been on the market for nearly 20 years without a single reported odor permeation failure, so in the end it will actually cost you LESS to re-hose with it once compared to replacing cheap water hose every couple of years.

And if when you sell the boat, also replace that jury-rigged toilet with a real one before you put it on the market...'cuz any moderately knowledgeable buyer who sees something like that on boat the size of yours will wonder what else you jury rigged cheap that he can't see and walk away.

*I bet it will go a lot longer than you "guess".

Jury rigged???* I would say that most boat head systems are jury rigged or a flat out a disaster from the factory WITH the manufacturers recommendations.

Mine is simple, inexpensive, easy to repair, etc...etc...hard to say that about MOST marine toilets.

30 year old trawlers usually have a lot more to worry about than that piece of hose. Bought mine with "approved systems that were failed in no time" that's why I designed a "better" system...not one to make someone some money.

Don't call my advice "jury rigged" and I woun't attack your advice on "merchandise".

*

I have to agree with Peggie on the "jury rigged" advice.* If it works for you, that's fine, but just as she advised, If I was looking at a boat to buy and saw something like that, I would run, not walk away.* I think this would be typical of most boat buyers.

*

*Then you too can't see some pretty easy and basic engineering improvements. Cheaper, cheaper to repair..I have one moving part between 2 heads except for commomnly found and easy to repair/replace macerators, easier tubing to holding tanks...interoperability between heads, near silent operation...selfregulating fresh water consumption..ease of operation for newbies....show me one off the shelf system to meet all those and I'll be glad to switch.

One silent flush and most boating*women break out in a big smile and turn to their husbands and ask "can we do that?"...

I'll have the last laugh...do whatever the conventional wisdom does...history proves how well that works out.


-- Edited by psneeld on Thursday 8th of March 2012 05:41:36 PM
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:44 PM   #25
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RE: sanitation hoses

The only off the shelf "head" that beats my system is a cedar bucket...

Even FF pointed that out in one of his responses...well as a second "back up" head, I think he pointed out.
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Old 03-09-2012, 03:40 AM   #26
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RE: sanitation hoses

The only off the shelf "head" that beats my system is a cedar bucket...

Perhaps ,,But the now defunct BALL HEAD was by far the easiest to live with , IF it could be installed as required.
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:54 AM   #27
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RE: sanitation hoses

Quote:
psneeld wrote:rwidman wrote:psneeld wrote:HeadMistress wrote:psneeld wrote:My boat had HUGE sanitation hose*issues so I got rid of the sal****er and hand pumps. On the one head...I just removed the hand pump and used an elbow to let it fall into a hose leading to a cheap macerator pump. Now I can use inexpensive vinyl hose to the holding tank*versus expensive sasnitation hose (because nothing really lays in it)...plus guests like the push button flush versus the standard pump flush.
*Waste doesn't have to lay in a hose to permeate it...and you will find out just how quickly vinyl hose absorbs waste that passes through it.* When it does, bite the bullet and replace it with Trident 101 sanitation hose...it's been on the market for nearly 20 years without a single reported odor permeation failure, so in the end it will actually cost you LESS to re-hose with it once compared to replacing cheap water hose every couple of years.

And if when you sell the boat, also replace that jury-rigged toilet with a real one before you put it on the market...'cuz any moderately knowledgeable buyer who sees something like that on boat the size of yours will wonder what else you jury rigged cheap that he can't see and walk away.

*I bet it will go a lot longer than you "guess".

Jury rigged???* I would say that most boat head systems are jury rigged or a flat out a disaster from the factory WITH the manufacturers recommendations.

Mine is simple, inexpensive, easy to repair, etc...etc...hard to say that about MOST marine toilets.

30 year old trawlers usually have a lot more to worry about than that piece of hose. Bought mine with "approved systems that were failed in no time" that's why I designed a "better" system...not one to make someone some money.

Don't call my advice "jury rigged" and I woun't attack your advice on "merchandise".

*

I have to agree with Peggie on the "jury rigged" advice.* If it works for you, that's fine, but just as she advised, If I was looking at a boat to buy and saw something like that, I would run, not walk away.* I think this would be typical of most boat buyers.

*

*Then you too can't see some pretty easy and basic engineering improvements. Cheaper, cheaper to repair..I have one moving part between 2 heads except for commomnly found and easy to repair/replace macerators, easier tubing to holding tanks...interoperability between heads, near silent operation...selfregulating fresh water consumption..ease of operation for newbies....show me one off the shelf system to meet all those and I'll be glad to switch.

One silent flush and most boating*women break out in a big smile and turn to their husbands and ask "can we do that?"...

I'll have the last laugh...do whatever the conventional wisdom does...history proves how well that works out.



-- Edited by psneeld on Thursday 8th of March 2012 05:41:36 PM

I don't think you took the time to think about my response.* Please read it again:

" If it works for you, that's fine, but just as she advised, If I was looking at a boat to buy and saw something like that, I would run, not walk away.* I think this would be typical of most boat buyers."

*
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Old 03-09-2012, 06:25 AM   #28
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sanitation hoses

rwidman wrote:edited...

Maybe the opposite???

Ever own or spend time in an RV?

All my experienced boat friends/professional mariners*saw in 10 seconds my improvements over conventional head setups...

Either an idiot will buy my 30 plus year old trawler because they know nothing and the price will be right or someone looking for a 30 year old trawler that has been brought way back from the dead and is in better than new shape in many areas and ready for liveaboard or long term cruising.

So I have NO qualms about my personal engineering skills and whether they will stand the test of time.



-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 9th of March 2012 07:29:23 AM


-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 9th of March 2012 07:33:21 AM
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Old 03-09-2012, 07:09 AM   #29
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sanitation hoses

Obviously, this conversation is going nowhere so have a nice day.


-- Edited by rwidman on Friday 9th of March 2012 08:10:07 AM
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:38 PM   #30
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RE: sanitation hoses

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HeadMistress wrote:
Marin...You used Trident 101--black double walled rubber hose with green stripe? Or was it Trident #148 "Extra Heavy Duty" white sanitation hose (which permeated on my own boat in less than 90 days!)?

*No.* It's white, not black with a green stripe, so I was wrong on that one.* But it was not the Trident 148, either.* This was a number of years ago and the hose was recommended at that time by everyone as being the most permeation-resistant hose on the planet outside of PVC.* So I assumed that was the stuff you were talking about.* Without looking at it in the boat I can't tell you the make and model we used, but we were very disappointed with it.

We need to replace a section where PVC won't work, so we'll inquire at Marine Sanitation in Seattle about the Trident 101.* Perhaps that will be our solution.* Thanks.
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:44 PM   #31
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RE: sanitation hoses

If Marine Sanitation installed it, they're a SeaLand/Dometic distributor/dealer...so I'd bet real money that the hose was SeaLand "OdorSafe," for which SeaLand charges an arm and a leg and claims is the most odor resistant hose on the planet...but definitely isn't! I've been on at least half a dozen boats on which it had failed, and heard about many more. It may be the only hose Marine Sanitation sells...if so, take your business to a dealer who carries Trident.
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:19 PM   #32
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RE: sanitation hoses

Peggy, have you seen the Trident 102 hose? It seems to be a white version of 101. I know a lot of people want to use white hose when it is visible near the toilet.
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Old 03-13-2012, 07:13 AM   #33
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RE: sanitation hoses

The black hose is the Trident 101, the white version is the 102.*
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:04 AM   #34
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RE: sanitation hoses

Trident 101 and 102 are supposed to be identical except for color...and they're both equally permeation resistant. However, I rarely recommend 102 for a couple of reasons:

1. the chemical process used to make the outer white "shell" outgasses a very unpleasant and sometimes quite strong chemical odor when new that can last quite a while...and 2. It's only been available in white for a few years...it's SUPPOSED to be the same as 101...and so far no reported odor permeation failures, only complaints about the chemical odor, but it doesn't have the track record that 101 has yet. IMO that makes 101 the better choice, at least for now.

Those who think that only white will do can build a nice little painted wood cover to put over the short piece of hose that's visible in the head.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:37 AM   #35
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RE: sanitation hoses

Quote:
HeadMistress wrote:
If Marine Sanitation installed it, they're a SeaLand/Dometic distributor/dealer...so I'd bet real money that the hose was SeaLand "OdorSafe," for which SeaLand charges an arm and a leg and claims is the most odor resistant hose on the planet...but definitely isn't!
*No, Marine Sanitation didn't install it or sell it to us and I have no idea at this point if they carry Trident or not.* And now that I see it in print you are correct, it was SeaLand "OdorSafe."* When we get to the point this summer of reworking our aft toilet plumbing run we'll for sure look into the Trident 101.* Thanks again.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:27 AM   #36
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RE: sanitation hoses

I've got some 102 in my store. I'll go give it the sniff test for outgassing today and report back.
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:24 AM   #37
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RE: sanitation hoses

I have some 101 in my shop. It's for sale. See classifieds.....
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:54 PM   #38
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RE: sanitation hoses

I had a new roll of Trident 102 still wrapped in plastic from the factory. I poked a hole in the plastic wrap and took a sniff. There was a slight rubber smell but it wasn't strong nor was it unplesant. I sniffed a piece of regular black hose and didn't smell anything. The black hose was not still wrapped and had been exposed to air for some time.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:48 AM   #39
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RE: sanitation hoses

I'll start with the easiest fix first, the muriatic acid, but what is the procedure. Do I just pour it in the open end of the hose or since I was installing new y-valve when I found the problem, put it back together and pour it in the toilet, pump and repeat.

Thanks for the help
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:25 PM   #40
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RE: sanitation hoses

The Sealand hose used to be good but when Dometic bought them they changed the formulation or supplier and the result is it's not as good anymore. Typical.

I have some of that Sealand hose from ~2000 and bought some extra and it still works well and yes I do check it.
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