Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-12-2018, 03:57 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Airstream345's Avatar
 
City: Seattle, WA USA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: FORTITUDE
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 336
San-X Replacement Project

As some of you saw in another thread, Washington State is implementing a NDZ in Puget Sound. Our boat came with a SanX Type-I treatment system as a workaround for a failed and now decommissioned stainless steel belly holding tank (pinholes, failed drain fitting = yuck).

Knowing this new rule would impact our boat we had originally planned to replace the SanX with a holding tank, so the May 10th implementation just accelerates our timeline.

The plan is to install at least a 20 gallon but up to a 40 gallon tank in the space currently occupied by the SanX. This allows us to reuse most of the plumbing systems that are already in place.

So far I've found three bow tank options:

20 Gallon Bow Tank
30 Gallon Bow Tank
40 Gallon Bow Tank

Both the 20 and 30 will fit the space easily. The 40 will also fit, but I'll need to remount the genny (our generator is in the forepeak under the v-berth) about 3" aft from it's current position - which isn't a huge deal but it's extra work.

My ideal scenario would be to install the 40 to maximize our flexibility in terms of days between pump outs and because we'll use the boat as guest overflow in the summer (up to four aboard for a week). We do have a pump-out-boat in South Lake Union which makes this easier, but it's usually on a weekly schedule.

I plan to document the change over here and on the BlueWater 40 FB page in case anyone else has a similar situation.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5237.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	108.9 KB
ID:	75119  
__________________
Advertisement

Airstream345 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2018, 04:20 PM   #2
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,618
Two of us live on the boat full time and we get 7 days with one head and a 30 gallon tank. I can stretch it a few days but ....
__________________

Larry M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2018, 04:24 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Airstream345's Avatar
 
City: Seattle, WA USA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: FORTITUDE
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 336
Thanks Larry, great info.

Also, I should've mentioned, we have a single head with a VacuFlush followed by a macerator in line before the SanX then another Macerator between the SanX and through hull (I assume this one was original to the factory holding tank).
Airstream345 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2018, 04:41 PM   #4
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,618
Our head is a VacuFlush with no macerator.
Larry M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2018, 04:44 PM   #5
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,947
Greetings,
Mr. 345. Put in the 40 gal. It only takes one flush to overflow at the worst possible time. Don't ask me how I know... My $.02.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2018, 04:58 PM   #6
Guru
 
HeadMistress's Avatar


 
City: AR
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,422
Normally I'd ask where the head is located in the boat--how far from your proposed tank in the bowl. But you have VacuFlush toilets, so the question becomes how far from the vacuum pump? And is the vacuum pump further or closer to the toilet bowl than that?
'Cuz the suction only gets the flush TO the vacuum pump...it has to push it the rest of the way to the tank, and will only run till the prescribed amount of vacuum has been achieved. So if the run from the pump to the tank is longer than the run from the toilet to the vacuum pump, the pump will shut off before the flush makes it into the tank.
__________________
© 2018 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
HeadMistress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2018, 05:04 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Airstream345's Avatar
 
City: Seattle, WA USA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: FORTITUDE
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 336
Everything is located quite close to each other (from head to the forward edge of the SanX is no more than 8'). The VacuFlush is within 3' of the head and maybe 4' from the SanX. A replacement tank will shorten the distance to the tank.

In our case, the VacuFlush feeds a macerator which currently pumps through a Y-Valve either overboard or to the SanX tank. The SanX then feeds down to another macerator which Y's into the overboard plumbing.

It took me a few tries early on to sort out what was installed and how things routed.
Airstream345 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2018, 05:44 PM   #8
Guru
 
HeadMistress's Avatar


 
City: AR
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,422
Is the vacuum tank and vacuum pump (or "vacuum generator") still installed, with a macerator pump added after the vacuum pump? Or is the macerator pump now the only pump between the toilet and the SanX tank? Or are you calling the "vacuum generator" a macerator?? 'Cuz the V/F isn't a macerating toilet!

Do you have an owners manual for it? Or any literature that shows a schematic of a VacuFlush? If not, I can send you one if you want to send me a PM that includes your email address (can't attach anything to a PM). Before you install a new tank, you really need to know what you actually have and take care of any maintenance on it.

And btw...the SanX was discontinued more than 10 years ago...no parts have been available for it for at least that long. TDX, a really nasty formadehyde based witches brew, is the only chemical certified for use in it as a Type I. It's still available, but if you're not using it, you don't have a legal Type I...so you're not really losing anything by replacing it with a tank...you're just finally gonna have a system that would have been legal before the new NDZ.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
__________________
© 2018 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
HeadMistress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2018, 12:22 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Airstream345's Avatar
 
City: Seattle, WA USA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: FORTITUDE
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadMistress View Post
Is the vacuum tank and vacuum pump (or "vacuum generator") still installed, with a macerator pump added after the vacuum pump?
Yes, vacuum tank/pump > macerator > SanX

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadMistress View Post
Do you have an owners manual for it? Or any literature that shows a schematic of a VacuFlush? If not, I can send you one if you want to send me a PM that includes your email address
Thank you for the offer however we do have the manuals for the SanX. The PO was meticulous about records.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadMistress View Post
And btw...the SanX was discontinued more than 10 years ago...no parts have been available for it for at least that long. TDX, a really nasty formadehyde based witches brew, is the only chemical certified for use in it as a Type I. It's still available, but if you're not using it, you don't have a legal Type I...so you're not really losing anything by replacing it with a tank...you're just finally gonna have a system that would have been legal before the new NDZ.
Yeah, the folks at Marine Sanitation in Seattle were really helpful in educating me on SanX, the history, the law, etc. shortly after we bought the boat.

Completely agree on replacement. The holding tank work around was noted on our survey so we always planned to replace the tank, the NDZ date just moves that up on the list of things.

I would've loved to have replaced the original tank in it's current position but removal/installation of a new tank would mean the head bulkhead as well as a section of floor would need need to come out, so a bow tank it is.

Really appreciate your expertise and advice on our project. I'll try and post a picture of the entire system, end-to-end to document it, surface additional issues and show others the before and after.

TF members rock!
Airstream345 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2018, 12:34 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
timb's Avatar
 
City: Oriental N.C.
Country: usa
Vessel Name: true heading
Vessel Model: marine trader 38 dc
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 253
go as big as you can .we had a 15 on our last boat and it would not last a long weekend with two couples .that was mostly just the females using it. there were some adult beverages involved .our marina only did pump outs on Wednesdays so when we where there for the week we had to come back to the marina Tuesday and wait for the pump out Wednesday to go lack out on the lake. I don't know how the 30 will hold up .

wow Larry you have it down to a science. no way I could get our usage that low .
timb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2018, 12:41 PM   #11
Guru
 
HeadMistress's Avatar


 
City: AR
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,422
I was asking if you have the owners manual for the VacuFlush. The SanX is a separate system into which flushes go, same as they would to any holding tank.

There should not be a macerator pump after the vacuum pump.
Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
__________________
© 2018 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
HeadMistress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2018, 01:36 PM   #12
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,460
With a plan to occasionally use the boat for guests, I’m with RTF on getting the largest capacity possible. Guests often don’t have any idea how many flushes they do, let alone how much water it takes per flush. I have a 35 gallon tank and it’s been filled in 24 hours by two guests aboard. Additionally, don’t be surprised what you might find in a guest provoked clog.
__________________
Larry

"When life gets hard, eat marshmallows”.
healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2018, 03:15 PM   #13
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,303
We have a 40 gallon tank and I would put in a larger one if I had any possible room. The boat originally came with a 20 gallon tank and the PO replaced it and put as large as would fit.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2018, 04:02 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Airstream345's Avatar
 
City: Seattle, WA USA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: FORTITUDE
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by healhustler View Post
With a plan to occasionally use the boat for guests, I’m with RTF on getting the largest capacity possible. Guests often don’t have any idea how many flushes they do, let alone how much water it takes per flush. I have a 35 gallon tank and it’s been filled in 24 hours by two guests aboard. Additionally, don’t be surprised what you might find in a guest provoked clog.
Agreed. We have a rule onboard: "You clog it, YOU clear it". I've ordering a placard to go over the head, right next to a box of latex gloves. I figure they'll get the message.
Airstream345 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2018, 04:36 PM   #15
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,303
I have a page listing the equipment on the boat and where it is located that I give out to each guest that comes aboard. On the bottom of the page are directions about using the head. This usually provokes a discussion about how to use the facilities and the last thing on the list is a note that if you make a mess, you must clean it up. Haven’t used the latex glove idea, but it is a good idea...
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2018, 07:26 PM   #16
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,460
Latex gloves, hmmm. Sounds good but I’m afraid they would just flush them down with everything else.
__________________
Larry

"When life gets hard, eat marshmallows”.
healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2018, 11:05 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Airstream345's Avatar
 
City: Seattle, WA USA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: FORTITUDE
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 336
I made a lot of progress on the tank replacement this weekend and now have a functional holding tank. Once I decided on location (based on a similar setup in another Bluewater we decided it would go under the Pullman Queen bed in the master stateroom) and I mentally prepared myself to cut or drill new holes in bulkheads, the deck and the hull it actually went pretty well. The hardest part was routing the hose behind the head cabinetry, under the head and through the forward bulkhead (the Vacuflush is located forward of the head).

I still need to strap the tank, install the level sensor, remount and reinstall the existing Y valve and decommission and remove the San-X and the original (failed) holding tank. I think I’ll rebuild the Vacuflush pump and head seals next as it's cycling on too often.

All in all about an 8 hour install. Half of the time was spent planning and going back and forth to fisheries supply.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1054.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	143.5 KB
ID:	76483
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1055.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	54.7 KB
ID:	76484
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1048.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	79.4 KB
ID:	76485
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1046.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	101.4 KB
ID:	76486
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1042.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	80.0 KB
ID:	76487
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1045.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	107.6 KB
ID:	76488
__________________
FORTITUDE
Blog: mvfortitude.com
Instagram: @mvfortitude
Facebook: Bluewater 40 Owners Group
Airstream345 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2018, 12:38 PM   #18
Guru
 
siestakey's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota,FL/Thomasville,GA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Steppin Stone IV
Vessel Model: Marine Trader Kelly Trawler 46
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,800
Send a message via Skype™ to siestakey
Wow Great Progress!!
__________________

__________________
Alan
Skype roatan63
siestakey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012