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Old 04-10-2015, 04:05 PM   #1
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Replumb Freshwater to Head

EDIT: Moved from Taking the Plunge

My pump from my through hull to my toilet is acting up . I'm not in salt water but still thinking about a fresh water flush from my water tanks . If I tap into my pressure fresh water system and send a line to the electric toilet and do away with the other pump and through hull ,I should be OK right ? Could the pressure from my fresh water system be too much for the toilet ? I have plenty of fresh water tank capacity . Will it help the smell in lines and tank even if I'm not in salt water? Will my rocker switch for toilet still work Ok ? I'm asking now because i might do this this weekend .
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Old 04-10-2015, 04:14 PM   #2
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That won't work I think because I would have pressure water to the toilet all the time .I will have to wire the rocker switch to turn the fresh water pump on and off and it's on the other end of the boat.
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Old 04-10-2015, 04:14 PM   #3
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Marty, There is danger of bacteria getting into your potable water system if you do that. If you want to flush from your drinking water supply, get a toilet designed to do that.


Do you have odor problems flushing with lake water? Flushing with sea water is like flushing with a living soup. You get odor problems when all those critters die in the system.
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Old 04-10-2015, 04:21 PM   #4
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Greetings,
Messrs. HC and frg. I'd be VERY careful about dumping ANY sewage even supposedly treated into ICW waters. There was a boat right next to me when we first arrived in Ft. Lauderdale who I'm VERY sure was dumping treated sewage into the canal. I subsequently asked a passing Ft. L. public works crew on their boat about it and they were both adamant that nothing at all was to be dumped. Gray water OK, but nothing else.
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Old 04-10-2015, 04:24 PM   #5
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Marty, There is danger of bacteria getting into your potable water system if you do that. If you want to flush from your drinking water supply, get a toilet designed to do that.


Do you have odor problems flushing with lake water? Flushing with sea water is like flushing with a living soup. You get odor problems when all those critters die in the system.
It's not that bad and it's probably from PO when it was in salt water . Maybe just changing hoses out will help .We don't drink from our water tanks but still don't need the extra bacteria .Do most use a dedicated water tank for the toilet ? The simple fix is to just replace my pump. I think from reading about jabsco par max pumps it's probably the pressure switch . Thanks for the info .
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Old 04-10-2015, 04:28 PM   #6
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Replacing hoses isn't likely to do a thing to solve your problem unless your intake hose is packed with sea water mineral build up.

I'm a little confused as to why your toilet would have a separate Par Max intake pump...remote intake pumps aren't unheard of, but they're rare on smaller boats.

What's the make/model/age of your toilet, Marty?
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Old 04-10-2015, 04:29 PM   #7
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What's the make/model/age of your toilet, Marty?
Jabsco quiet flush ,but it's loud ! At least 5 years old .
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Old 04-10-2015, 04:40 PM   #8
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Marty, It would be safe to flush from a dedicated tank but it would sure be easier just to get a toilet designed to flush from your potable water system.


I see Peggie is here. She can help you better than I can.
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Old 04-10-2015, 05:00 PM   #9
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That explains it. The Quiet Flush is actually designed to to use onboard fresh water, but is also available with a remote intake pump. Also explains why it's so noisy...most people think it's the macerator and discharge pump that makes all the noise in macerating electric toilets, but it's really the INTAKE pump. Toilets designed to use pressurized flush water don't have an intake pump...eliminating reduces noise level by as much as 90%!

Jabsco toilets aren't famous for long lifespans...and after 5 years you're looking at it needed a rebuild...you already suspect it needs an intake pump. Soyou might want to consider a total toilet-ectomy in a single operation instead buying a new toilet one part at a time. The fresh water version of the Raritan SeaEra "conversion" (everything south of the bowl) is a good choice for YOUR boat...not too basic, not too high-end/pricy...and it's QUIET! Check it out here SeaEra Conversion Kit , then ask Parks to give you a quote for one.

That's my $.02 worth anyway.
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Old 04-10-2015, 05:17 PM   #10
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My Jabsco "quiet flush" is quite noisy also. If I just pump water into the bowl, it is quiet and uses the boat freshwater supply. When flushed, that macerator grinding sounds like a disposal running.
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Old 04-10-2015, 08:29 PM   #11
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[QUOTE=HopCar;323909]Marty, There is danger of bacteria getting into your potable water system if you do that. If you want to flush from your drinking water supply, get a toilet designed to do that.

/QUOTE]

There is no danger if the system is plumbed correctly. I converted two old Raritan Crowns years ago...zero issues with contamination. Raritan used to have a step by step instructions on their web site along with an equipment list to do it safely. I haven't seen it in a while...probably because they prefer to sell new fresh water flush heads... The key elements are backflow prevention/vacuum breaker and a solenoid to control the fresh water flow. And no, there are not issues with too much pressure for the toilet...ours work on city water pressure most of the time. Yes, if the fresh water system pump is not on a pressure sensing switch, it would have to be wired to the toilet flush switch. Total cost to assemble a kit with a Jabsco combination vacuum breaker/solenoid valve and some wiring/hoses/couplings is in the range of $125.


However, the real trick to odor control for most of these macerator style heads is a vented loop in the discharge line, which leaves a small pool of clean water in the bowl, thereby blocking the stink from lines. Fresh water flush won't stop that.
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Old 04-10-2015, 08:46 PM   #12
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It would not surprise me if the back-flow and vacum break were not already in place on his unit. Perhaps only the water solenoid valve would be necessary.

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Old 04-11-2015, 01:39 AM   #13
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/QUOTE] There is no danger if the system is plumbed correctly. I converted two old Raritan Crowns years ago...zero issues with contamination. Raritan used to have a step by step instructions on their web site along with an equipment list to do it safely. I haven't seen it in a while...probably because they prefer to sell new fresh water flush heads....[/QUOTE]

The real reason was because they didn't want to risk being sued by people who's credo is "Directions?? I don' need no steenkin' directions!" and then polluted their fresh water because they didn't follow the instructions.
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Old 04-11-2015, 10:05 AM   #14
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I recently installed a Jabsco quiet flush. I also thought the flush water pump was the noise maker so I installed it in the engine room. Not so, the macerator/flush pump is the real culprit. The original was so out of balance it about shook the toilet off the mounting. Jabsco replaced it under warranty but it is still extremely noisy. I was very disappointed because I replaced the existing one because it was so noisy.


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Old 04-11-2015, 10:14 AM   #15
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/QUOTE]

The real reason was because they didn't want to risk being sued by people who's credo is "Directions?? I don' need no steenkin' directions!" and then polluted their fresh water because they didn't follow the instructions.
Why would someone interested enough to locate and read their instructions then ignore the single safety consideration associated with the modification...mount the backflow/vacuum breaker x number of inches higher than the unit? By the way, I just checked...they now have a note (for the Crown series...maybe others) to call their technical line if you want to make the mod. Dollars to donuts that when you call, they try to sell you their fresh water conversion kit that's new to the market @ $240 (Defender). I guess people who buy their kit and follow directions are different from people who used their directions and sourced the parts themselves (for about $100 less). It's about sales.


By the way, I'm a huge fan of the Raritan Crown (without the impeller style raw water pump attached).
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Old 04-11-2015, 10:38 AM   #16
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If you'd heard from as many people as I have over the years who don't even know where an intake vented loop belongs because they never bothered to read the directions--or barely skimmed through 'em and decided they didn't need 'em any further--when they installed a toilet, and how many have other problems they wouldn't have if they'd followed the directions, you'd be cynical too.

Bob, the BOAT can be the culprit when a macerating toilet discharge is noisy. Hulls can sometimes have "sweet spots" that can reverberate something awful if the toilet has to go onto a part of the sole that connects to that spot. The only help for it is to mount the toilet on an inch of foam rubber...and even that isn't enough to kill the noise completely. It's also not a very good solution if the head compartment is also the shower "stall" because the foam deteriorates when it spends a lot of time being wet.
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Old 04-11-2015, 01:56 PM   #17
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Not all foam is created equal. The only product I'd even consider for the suggested application is Dyna Pad from the makers of Dynamat sound reduction products. It's a 1/2" thick sandwiched mat with a middle layer of extremely dense elastomer (similar to butyl) and inner and outer layers of tough, dense, closed cell foam. I'm using it for the boot (trunk) floor on the Jaguar E-type restoration. It's also in my J-10 pickup as a stand alone floor mat. Set the commode on it and then build an enclosure lined with the stuff. End of noise.
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Old 04-11-2015, 10:51 PM   #18
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Went over everything on toilet today . Found a couple suspect connections on pump , fixed those and reset pressure switch . Back in business after about an hour.Toilet refills and flushes perfect but still loud . We can deal with the noise. .
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Old 04-11-2015, 11:15 PM   #19
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I have completed exhaustive research and have concluded that the smaller the boat, the louder the electric head.
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Old 04-12-2015, 12:00 PM   #20
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Run a FW line aft to the head area.

Purchase a hand spray as found on home kitchen sinks. $6.00

Ready ,aim , fire , helps clean the skid marks with minimum water use.

We have a combined head and shower so the shower spray is already there.

NO vacuum breaker required.

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