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Old 01-04-2019, 06:59 PM   #21
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I'm a fan of the Vacuflush heads. During my refit, I replaced all the sanitation hose, rebuilt the pumps and bowl bases, and relocated one of the vacuum tanks and one pump for easier access. While a poorly planned installation by the boat builder may make them difficult to service, properly installed and regularly serviced make for a reliable trouble free head. I change the valves annually and plan to rebuild the pumps every 5 years. Preventative maintenance beats disassembling a broken head full of stuff every time.

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Old 01-04-2019, 09:37 PM   #22
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The wye valves - hated the one I had to direct poop either through the pump-out or the over board discharge pump. All it did was to significantly restrict the flow. That 1.5 inch hose? Well the wye valve reduces the passage to about 3/4 inch. Awful.

Sounds like you had the wrong size y-valves...'cuz a 3/4" y-valve would definitely reduce the flow from a 1.5" hose to 3/4" as can sea water mineral buildup that's ignored in the right size y-valves. Which is not necessarily a vote in favor of y-valves, but an observation about what can happen in any installation if the wrong size parts are used and/or minimal maintenance is ignored until it ceases to be preventive maintenance and becomes problem solving.


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Old 01-05-2019, 01:13 AM   #23
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[I]" an observation about what can happen in any installation if the wrong size parts are used and/or minimal maintenance is ignored until it ceases to be preventive maintenance and becomes problem solving."


--Peggie
I have just replaced the hoses to both our Tecma units. I couldn't believe the build up in the hoses themselves. The effective diameter of the hoses was at best about 20% of the original size,this was obviously affecting the capacity of the Tecmas to do the job.

So coming back to Peggy's statement of minimal maintenance. What would that be, for a unit using raw water.

The job was bad enough, so any advice to extend the hoses life is very much appreciated.
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Old 01-05-2019, 05:05 AM   #24
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It has only one drawback, a major one: it's as stiff as an ironing board, making it necessary to insert radius fittings where bends are more than about 10 degrees, so it's really suitable only for long straight runs.
Are there any issues with using standard black ABS or other residential-rated pipes instead of the marine hose?
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Old 01-05-2019, 07:58 AM   #25
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Are there any issues with using standard black ABS or other residential-rated pipes instead of the marine hose?

Not really. ABS is not as readily available as is PVC, depending on the region you're in. ABS was favored by tradesmen for some time, the primary reason being it did not require the use of purple primer to pass code, thus eliminating a step in assembly, the fittings are more ductile as well, so less incidence of shattering if stressed or abused. Still, more a personal preference/bias than anything.

PVC can easily be used on board, it won't ever permeate, it can be formed if it's heated evenly and supported, but it isn't flexible, obviously limiting use where it needs to be pretzeled into place. If there are long runs, it's an excellent option. Sometimes it can be installed by cutting an access hole to slide the pipe into place, then closing the hole. Use hose sections as flex connectors and hard pipe where possible. One consideration in using PVC-DWV solvent weld is primer. Code requires (or did) purple primer as an indicator that joints were primed, purple stuff is a mess, it stains, it's sloppy, but it does make a better joint. Although PVC can be successfully joined without priming, priming improves the odds. Clear primer is available, so use clear to insure a better joint without the attendant mess of dyed primer.
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Old 01-05-2019, 09:48 AM   #26
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So coming back to Peggy's statement of minimal maintenance. What would that be, for a unit using raw water.


Sea water mineral buildup can be prevented with a cupful, no more than two cupfuls, of undiluted distilled white vinegar flushed all the way through the system at least once a month...weekly is better. Follow after 45-60 minutes with a thorough FRESH water rinse. Replacing hoses isn't the only alternative if you neglect preventive maintenance. A 12% solution of muriatic (hydrochloric) acid or Sew Clean Sew Clean used according to directions will cure a buildup.



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Old 01-05-2019, 10:01 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
I'm a fan of the Vacuflush heads. During my refit, I replaced all the sanitation hose, rebuilt the pumps and bowl bases, and relocated one of the vacuum tanks and one pump for easier access. While a poorly planned installation by the boat builder may make them difficult to service, properly installed and regularly serviced make for a reliable trouble free head. I change the valves annually and plan to rebuild the pumps every 5 years. Preventative maintenance beats disassembling a broken head full of stuff every time.

Ted
Yes, and I see you having lots more maintenance with the VFs. The electric heads, well, just press a button. If, and when, somethings goes awry, access to the mechanicals is as easy as one could hope on the back side of the bowl. No "regular" service required. No disassembly of the poop parts when service is required. To me, that alone is reason enough to opt for the electric head.

Now, not to impune anyone who is a fan of VF heads, but, after reading many threads concerning operation, repair, and maintenance, I have gotten the distinct impression that VF owners are frequently defending all of its worts, that they really, really aren't all that bad.
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Old 01-05-2019, 10:05 AM   #28
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The wye valves - hated the one I had to direct poop either through the pump-out or the over board discharge pump. All it did was to significantly restrict the flow. That 1.5 inch hose? Well the wye valve reduces the passage to about 3/4 inch. Awful.

Sounds like you had the wrong size y-valves...'cuz a 3/4" y-valve would definitely reduce the flow from a 1.5" hose to 3/4" as can sea water mineral buildup that's ignored in the right size y-valves. Which is not necessarily a vote in favor of y-valves, but an observation about what can happen in any installation if the wrong size parts are used and/or minimal maintenance is ignored until it ceases to be preventive maintenance and becomes problem solving.


--Peggie
No, I did have the correct size wye valve. Perhaps I was looking at the internals incorrectly but the passages inside the 1.5" valve are not 1.5 inches, more like the 3/4 inch I mentioned. It was a Raritan valve. Perhaps other wye valves are full-flow.
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Old 01-05-2019, 10:59 AM   #29
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One of the issues with rigid PVC is adapting it to 1.5" hose. On the boat I built, I used 1 1/4 schedule 80 clear PVC. The ends can be turned to take 1.5 hose, then you can heat bend it to a decently tight radius. It is clear so you can see what's going through . You can also watch the hard deposit buildup form. Couple of examples:



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Old 01-05-2019, 11:05 AM   #30
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Yes, and I see you having lots more maintenance with the VFs. The electric heads, well, just press a button. If, and when, somethings goes awry, access to the mechanicals is as easy as one could hope on the back side of the bowl. No "regular" service required. No disassembly of the poop parts when service is required. To me, that alone is reason enough to opt for the electric head.

Now, not to impune anyone who is a fan of VF heads, but, after reading many threads concerning operation, repair, and maintenance, I have gotten the distinct impression that VF owners are frequently defending all of its worts, that they really, really aren't all that bad.
Jack
Our maintenance on 2 VFs has been duckbills, bowl rings and a new boat install issue. Nothing more in 15 years. Had they been an issue they'd of been jettisoned long ago. But on a boat, poor maintenance, dropping the wrong things in a head and an inattentive owner can do in many toilets.

For regular service on your units suggest you read the manual. There are quite possibly a few maintenance items to consider.
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:47 AM   #31
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In my opinion it’s less about the brand of hardware you have and more about maintainability. Vacuflush and Raritan are both excellent products and I am a experienced customer of each.

That said if you cannot get to it to maintain it, then it’s going to be a problem.

* As far as your plumbing I see zero reason to complicate your system with a wye valve between the heads and the holding tank. I would make a straight run from the heads to the holding tank and eliminate the wye valve.

* As far as the Vacuflush units, if you cannot get to them for maintenance then either move or remove them. Again, a system that you cannot reach for maintenance is unacceptable. Vacuflush units are easy to maintain if you can reach them, and a real bugger if you cannot. Just like anything else on a boat.

* As others have indicated hoses are maintenance items. Replacement time can be used to uncomplicate your system, but I would be careful not to “scope creep” this into a bigger than necessary job.

* in my opinion one of the handiest upgrades you can do is to install a treatment system in between the discharge pump and the sea cock. You can then use a Raritan Hold N Treat controller to automate the treatment/discharge process. Of course this only makes sense if your cruising grounds allow treated waste discharge.
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:03 PM   #32
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One of the issues with rigid PVC is adapting it to 1.5" hose. On the boat I built, I used 1 1/4 schedule 80 clear PVC. The ends can be turned to take 1.5 hose, then you can heat bend it to a decently tight radius. It is clear so you can see what's going through . You can also watch the hard deposit buildup form. Couple of examples:

Why Schedule 80?

Could you have used plain ol' white 1¼" Schedule 40 to do the same thing (except for the visibility factor)?

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Old 01-05-2019, 09:34 PM   #33
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Why Schedule 80?

Could you have used plain ol' white 1¼" Schedule 40 to do the same thing (except for the visibility factor)?

-Chris
Not easily. Standard pipe sizes are uniform on outside dimension (which is why fittings will work with any schedule of pipe). The schedule 80 has a thicker wall, and therefore a smaller inside diameter. 1 1/4 pipe is around 1.660 OD, you can turn it down to 1.5 if the wall is thick enough to have anything left. On sch 40 that's dodgy.

Schedule 80 grey PVC is readily available at big box and home improvement stores, but I found that it was more difficult to heat bend, picky about temperature and tore more easily on tight radii. I settled on the clear stuff from McMaster, it bent nicely (you have to put a spring inside while you bend it and get the temperature right, a little trial and error is all that takes). The see through was just a bonus . Use clear fittings with it and clear PVC glue, otherwise the joints look unaesthetic - and yes that is important in your waste plumbing! While some codes require primer, that is mainly to combat indifferent contractor assembly. Clean and lightly abrade the joints before gluing and they will be reliably tight.
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:15 PM   #34
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Yes, and I see you having lots more maintenance with the VFs. The electric heads, well, just press a button. If, and when, somethings goes awry, access to the mechanicals is as easy as one could hope on the back side of the bowl. No "regular" service required. No disassembly of the poop parts when service is required. To me, that alone is reason enough to opt for the electric head.

Now, not to impune anyone who is a fan of VF heads, but, after reading many threads concerning operation, repair, and maintenance, I have gotten the distinct impression that VF owners are frequently defending all of its worts, that they really, really aren't all that bad.
You're mistaken, I do preventive maintenance not maintenance. I also doubt that I'll spend the cost of 2 new heads in the PM parts I'll buy throughout the ownership of my boat.
Finally, it's quite clear that most of the problems expressed were lousy installations by the builder, not an issue with the product.

Ted
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Old 01-06-2019, 07:16 AM   #35
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Not easily. Standard pipe sizes are uniform on outside dimension (which is why fittings will work with any schedule of pipe). The schedule 80 has a thicker wall, and therefore a smaller inside diameter. 1 1/4 pipe is around 1.660 OD, you can turn it down to 1.5 if the wall is thick enough to have anything left. On sch 40 that's dodgy.

Schedule 80 grey PVC is readily available at big box and home improvement stores, but I found that it was more difficult to heat bend, picky about temperature and tore more easily on tight radii. I settled on the clear stuff from McMaster, it bent nicely (you have to put a spring inside while you bend it and get the temperature right, a little trial and error is all that takes). The see through was just a bonus . Use clear fittings with it and clear PVC glue, otherwise the joints look unaesthetic - and yes that is important in your waste plumbing! While some codes require primer, that is mainly to combat indifferent contractor assembly. Clean and lightly abrade the joints before gluing and they will be reliably tight.
Thanks. Before your picture post, I hadn't realized there even was a Schedule 80, nor did I know there are clear options, and I thought PVC couldn't be bent!

And then reading about Schedule 80 after that suggested the thicker sidewalls would increase exterior diameter, not reduce interior diameter.

So thanks for the education!

I've been assuming an easy way to reduce pipe to hose -- easier than turning? -- is by just using an adapter like this: https://www.environmentalmarine.com/...dapter-341513/

??

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Old 01-06-2019, 07:26 AM   #36
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WE have threaded SKD 80 by simply dropping a wooden plug in so the thread cutting tool can not distort the pipe.

With Hayward true union valves it makes a great repairable waste or bilge pumping system.

I detest waste pumps as they always seem unreliable so would include a way to flood the pump , hose or pail, to get it pumping without taking anything apart , .
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:34 AM   #37
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IMO, do away with the overboard filter. IF you over fill the holding tank and the filter gets wet, it stops working and may not be able to vent the tank. Plus, I never thought a filter was necessary. The vent is outside the boat so let it stink outside the boat.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:41 PM   #38
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I always thought the 1-1/2" pvc to 1-1/2" hose adapters that Sealand sells makes it awfully easy
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Old 01-06-2019, 04:07 PM   #39
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In the line between the head and the tank and the tank to the over board, never put in a 90. It is far far better to use a 45. A 90 really messes with the transfer flow.

I had head problems on my N46 for years until I replaced the 90 with the 45.... everything zipped down the pipe with great ease. LOL
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:01 PM   #40
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The barb adapters work if you have the space for them, and the space for the 1 1/2 PVC. In a compact installation, you can fit more in with bent 1 1/4, turning the ends to fit. It is a more time consuming process though.
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