Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-28-2010, 04:57 AM   #41
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,531
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

Jeff , Please post the PRICE of your system ,it might horrify the Sears fridge folks!
__________________
Advertisement

FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2010, 11:12 PM   #42
Guru
 
Tidahapah's Avatar
 
City: Mooloolaba
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Tidahapah
Vessel Model: Bert Ellis Timber motor cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,779
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

Jeff,
The 2 x 110 lt Eva Kool frig/freezers I have are on my back deck and have been for the past 5 years, still going strong. At $1700.00 each this was the cheapest way I could do it even with building them my self.(didn't have the time).

Have been a bit slack so must open the covers and clean the evaps before I depart on my next cruise.

Benn
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	aft deck before friges.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	114.4 KB
ID:	2144   Click image for larger version

Name:	friges in place.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	149.7 KB
ID:	2145   Click image for larger version

Name:	p8260129.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	108.8 KB
ID:	2146  
__________________

Tidahapah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2010, 06:30 PM   #43
Senior Member
 
Bendit's Avatar
 
City: Auckland
Country: New Zealand
Vessel Name: Pioneer
Vessel Model: Westcoaster 53 converted to pleasure
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 283
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

Benn,
They look great, almost built in. Mine is just a snug fit into a 1" recess in the deck.
FF, 6 years ago the three units cost USD 2,100 approx.
Jeff b
Bendit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 10:08 PM   #44
Guru
 
Egregious's Avatar
 
City: Sunset Beach, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Polly P.
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 554
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

I've been on a boat for a week that had cold plate fridge and freezer, and running it one hour in the morning and one in the afternoon was enough to keep it cold as long as you didn't open them (that means running the genny).* We kept all beer and soft drinks in a cooler full of ice, and bought as much as we could carry from on shore*every two days.* That was the best I've seen.

Other boats with cold plates required more time to charge the plates.* I guess the one boat must have been new or whatever.

There is no perfect solution, but if you are cruising without shore power, and you have a generator that you need to run in the morning to power the stove and / or microwave etc, and you need to run at night for A/C, then the cold plate is the way to go.* You just have to keep it closed and not treat it as a home fridge where you can open the door every time you need a cold beer.

Now, if I'm underway 5 hours a day, I'd get a 12vDC/12vAC model since I can run it on 12v while I'm underway.* When I'm on the hook I will cut it off, and if I'm at a marina I will run it on 120.

I think FF has it right that no matter what you choose you are looking at the same problem: removing heat from a box.* It will take the same amount of power in the end to remove the heat (and make it cold) from the box whether you remove it slowly over time or do it quickly to a heat sink and let it remove the heat from the box.* Conservation of energy will always be true, so the best thing you can do is make sure the enclosure is well insulated and well sealed.* How you remove the heat from that enclosure is a matter of preference and habit of cruising.
Egregious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2010, 04:38 AM   #45
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,531
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

One solution not often used is to select the eutetic solution to suit your engine run time.

A higher temp freeze melt point will allow refrigeration with short , more frequent run times.

The noisemaker 3 -4+ times a day folks.

A lower temp solution will suit the 2+ hour engine run folks.

Either way the BIGGEST compressor will be a help at the start of the re freeze , but of little help at the later stages.

The reason is ice is an insulator , so as the tubing inside the plate gets a thick coat of ice , heat removal is slowed.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2010, 12:30 AM   #46
Guru
 
Egregious's Avatar
 
City: Sunset Beach, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Polly P.
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 554
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

FF I understand you.* Once the plates get frozen then nothing will get them colder.* My point is that they can get frozen by an hour of generator use.
Egregious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2010, 03:55 AM   #47
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,531
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

Once the plates get frozen then nothing will get them colder. My point is that they can get frozen by an hour of generator use.


Plates are like batts , they come in a variety of sizes.

The Adler Barbour engine drive plates could be as large as 20 X 20 and 3 inches thick , then there was the SS freezer U bank at almost 6000 btu.

Even with the almost 10 hp of a converted car air cond compressor could not freeze these totally in an hour. Ice forming internally was the reason.

The heat leak is constant , the heat removal with a plate only lasts till there is nothing left to melt,

so the bigger the plate , the longer you can go.

As an experiment Mike had a custom copper sheet evaporator made up. (instead of simple copper tubing) The unit curved to fit inside the 20 sq , so there was no place the fluid was more than about 3/4 thick from the copper .

The reduction in pump down time was beyond belief , about 15 min from a warm box , in a shop with only enough electric for a 1 Hp compressor.What it might do with the engine drive was never learned as the Danfloss units were being introduced and many boaters care more about initial price than have a need for a long term cruising system .
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2010, 02:53 PM   #48
Guru
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Vessel Name: Anastasia III
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,716
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

You bet cold plates will get colder than "frozen" or 0 C / 32 F. Mine has a manual override switch to turn it on and bypass the thermostat. I forgot about it once and it was something like -8 F the next day. WAY colder than freezing. It seemed to survive just fine, although I wouldn't want to test that theory again.
Keith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2010, 04:04 AM   #49
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,531
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

On draw down the plate will be 5 to 10 deg lower than the set point for the eutetic fluid.

Our freezer U bank melts internally at 0F and holds the freezer at 5F for 3 days.

It must be kept at -8F or so for 2 hours , every 3rd day to operate.

As the box is a combined box fridge and freezer, we have to remove some veggies to an Igloo to keep them from freezing during the 2 hour plate re-freeze.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 10:30 AM   #50
Senior Member
 
straycat's Avatar
 
City: Stuart Fl
Country: USA
Vessel Name: StrayCat
Vessel Model: Prairie 29 Hull #51
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 121
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

What type of icemaker do you have and what size. *This is an addition that I contemplate for Slo Poke.*
straycat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2010, 09:02 AM   #51
Senior Member
 
straycat's Avatar
 
City: Stuart Fl
Country: USA
Vessel Name: StrayCat
Vessel Model: Prairie 29 Hull #51
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 121
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

I haven't seen this alternative mentioned, and if it has been, I'm sorry for the repetition. *We installed a Frigoboat keel cooled unit in a 13 cu. ft. refrig/freezer, and it used very little power. *In fact, 2 85 watt solar panels kept the fridge and freezer going for a week at anchor. *because water is about 35 times more efficient at cooling than air, the unit was very efficient. *It consisted of three elements, an evaporation plate, a Danfoss BD 50 and a 5" by 3" keel unit that looked like a sintered plate used for grounding. *We installed it ourselves, and were highly pleased with its performance while aboard for about a year on the intracoastal. *Cost, $1600. *The evaporator was placed in the freezer compartment, and there was a fan that blew the cold air into the fridge section. *We kept three months worth of meat frozen, and has three levels of cold in the fridge. *One for milk and such, a middle section for beer, and a top shelf for salad veggies.
straycat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 10:39 AM   #52
Member
 
Chris491's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 18
Refrigration and Trawlers

Wow--lots of ideas and lots of good answers. But here is another question.

My little 31-foot trawler spent years hosting liveaboards under previous ownership and never left the dock. When whatever original refrigeration failed (it was at least two-way, as there are both 120VAC and 12VDC refrigeration switches on the panel) , somebody took it out and shoved an office-size refrigerator/freezer there that only runs on 120VAC. So my two options, it seems to me, is to install an adequate inverter and continue to run the existing refrigerator/freezer or remove this beast and install a proper two- or three-way refrigerator (I am not currently interested in a freezer).

Option A seems a good one: even if I later put in a proper two- or three-way refrigerator, I still have 120VAC available for other uses. In the long run I will remove this beast, but for now I think the hot ticket (no pun intended) is the inverter installation.

Thoughts?

-- Edited by Chris491 on Sunday 29th of August 2010 10:39:54 AM
Chris491 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 12:21 PM   #53
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,421
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

Quote:
Chris491 wrote:" somebody took it out and shoved an office-size refrigerator/freezer there that only runs on 120VAC.

Option A seems a good one: even if I later put in a proper two- or three-way refrigerator, I still have 120VAC available for other uses. In the long run I will remove this beast, but for now I think the hot ticket (no pun intended) is the inverter installation."
That's exactly what happened on my boat as received from the PO. At first I thought it was a big mistake but since my boat came with a 3000 watt inverter I have found that running with the inverter on keeps evrything available to me. Refrigerator, ice maker, TV, 110 outlets, etc. I wouldn't change it.



*
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	helm & fridge.jpg
Views:	52
Size:	103.8 KB
ID:	2570   Click image for larger version

Name:	tv & ice maker.jpg
Views:	49
Size:	53.1 KB
ID:	2571  
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 03:07 PM   #54
JD
Guru
 
JD's Avatar
 
City: New Bern NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Stella Di Mare
Vessel Model: Mainship 34t
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,702
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

Walt,

How do you handle the drain on the Ice Maker?
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 06:43 PM   #55
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,421
Refrigration and Trawlers

JD:

There is no drain on the B195 U-Line. When I need to defrost, I just fold* a towel and place it under the empty ice bucket. Turn the ice maker off and leave the door open. Takes about 1.5 hours.*** U Line Origin Series BI-95B-00 14'' Ice Maker with 12 Lbs. of Ice Storage, 23 Lbs. Daily Ice Production & No Drain Required: Black

Also, I do the same thing with my Kenmore refrigerator. (also, no drain required.) These small refrigerators from Sears (110v) only cost $100-200. They work great, consume very little power and years later, if they fail, throw them over the side and go back to Sears.

My brother who has about 30,000 miles under the keel of his 57 DeFever has been doing this for about 30 years. He buys the small freezers, puts a doily on top and uses them for an end table in the salon.

I use Thumb Locks to hold them in place. Never had one come loose.
Thumb Lock - Marine and RV West Marine sells them. Make sure that they are oriented before pressing them on as they are a real bitch to get off.




-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Sunday 29th of August 2010 06:54:58 PM
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 09:50 PM   #56
JD
Guru
 
JD's Avatar
 
City: New Bern NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Stella Di Mare
Vessel Model: Mainship 34t
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,702
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

Thanks Walt.

So all you did was add a fresh water line to it.* Correct.
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 05:31 AM   #57
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,531
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

The question is always batt cap vs desired endurance.

For overnite any inverter and cheap chop chop inverter will usually do OK.

Want to spend 3 days on the hook with no noisemaker its far more expensive.

The "best" for the no noisemaker crowd seems to be the custom box , top loading , 4 in insulation on fridge 6 on freezer , eutetic plate and operated by a Danfloss DC unit .

Ant computer speed controlled unit will do, air cooled is preferred if the boat will be occupied while ashore at refit time.Water cooled is not much more efficient in terms of electric use or run time , compared to a PROPERLY installed air unit.

Folks with room and the bucks can simply install a Sun Frost , which looks conventional, had great insulation and is DC operated , if desired.

Usually 2 -75W solar panels will run a good well insulated box , with a smart DC system.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 10:52 AM   #58
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,421
Refrigration and Trawlers

Quote:
JD wrote:Thanks Walt.
So all you did was add a fresh water line to it.* Correct.
Correct! (And plugged it in to a 110 outlet)* The 110 outlet right behind the TV.


*


-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Monday 30th of August 2010 10:55:40 AM
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	tv & ice maker.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	53.1 KB
ID:	2573  
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2010, 03:48 PM   #59
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

I know it's an old thread, but there is no way to safely install a propane refrigerator on a boat.* Stove or oven, yes.* Refrigerator or water heater, no way.

ABYC is pretty specific on propane appliances, installation, and use.* Among other things, you do not want an unattended flame on a boat.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2010, 05:33 PM   #60
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Refrigration and Trawlers

Quote:
rwidman wrote:

but there is no way to safely install a propane refrigerator on a boat.*
All the canal boats in the UK (don't know about the Continent but they're probably the same) have propane water heaters and some of them have propane refrigerators.* All meeting the safety requirements of the various authorities that cover this sort of thing over there.* All the narrowboats we've hired over the years had propane hot water heaters (the first one had a propane on-demand hot water heater as well as a propane refrigerator.* Most of the boats have gone to DC refrigerators but the hot water heaters are all propane.* These boats do not use shorepower of any kind (no marinas to plug into, anyway) so they have to be self-sufficient.

*
__________________

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Integrity Trawlers dwhatty Island Gypsy/Halvorsen Designs 11 08-13-2017 11:25 AM
New to this forum - and trawlers Tony B General Discussion 18 07-21-2011 07:53 PM
New to Trawlers John J General Discussion 7 05-09-2011 01:59 PM
trawlers to go look at ksanders General Discussion 5 04-25-2011 05:48 PM
New to trawlers cd30ketch General Discussion 9 10-29-2010 09:07 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012