Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-03-2011, 09:16 PM   #1
Guru
 
Forkliftt's Avatar
 
City: Biloxi Mississippi
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Patricia Louise II
Vessel Model: 1983 42' Present Sundeck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,433
Which refrigerant??

My rear 16,000 btu Cruisair unit has begun to freeze up after several hours of running. It appears to be a slow leak. I believe it is original to the boat, 1983, and I read somewhere that pre 1995 used R12 refrigerant. Very rare (read expensive). Does anyone know if this is true?
__________________
Advertisement

Forkliftt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 04:10 AM   #2
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,531
RE: Which refrigerant??

R-12 IS almost impossible to find, probably illegal to install.

Beware , some of the R-12 "replacement" is simply propane and butane (which IS more efficient than the R-12) but could be a problem with out a bilge sniffer.

In the future I'm guessing ammonia will be the refrigerant of choice , 50c a pound and no BS "ozone" problems.

Best its even 20% better as a refrigerant than any Freon .

Energy will cost dearly as the billions in the 3rd world play catch up, so a 20% break in operating costs will be hard to pass up.
__________________

FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 04:43 AM   #3
Guru
 
JohnP's Avatar
 
City: Toms River
Country: USA
Vessel Name: D U E T T E
Vessel Model: 1996 36' Island Gypsy
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,109
RE: Which refrigerant??

There should be a metal tag on the unit which has model and serial number and type of refrigerant used.

Some R12 units can be converted but a unit from 1983 might be better replaced with new.

IMHO* JohnP
JohnP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 06:58 AM   #4
Guru
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Vessel Name: Anastasia III
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,716
RE: Which refrigerant??

R134 is a drop in replacement. Just google "r12 replacement" and you'll get all kinds of hits.
Keith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 07:40 AM   #5
Guru
 
Forkliftt's Avatar
 
City: Biloxi Mississippi
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Patricia Louise II
Vessel Model: 1983 42' Present Sundeck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,433
RE: Which refrigerant??

Turns out it's R22. Thanks Steve at marine-ac !
Forkliftt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 08:19 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
City: Maine
Country: USA
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 109
RE: Which refrigerant??

When replacing the refrigerant, flush the system first and check the TXV or orifice tube for debris and replace as necessary. Vacuum down all the way too so as to make sure you got all the moisture out of it.*
Anthonyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 08:52 AM   #7
Guru
 
Forkliftt's Avatar
 
City: Biloxi Mississippi
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Patricia Louise II
Vessel Model: 1983 42' Present Sundeck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,433
RE: Which refrigerant??

Quote:
Anthonyd wrote:


When replacing the refrigerant, flush the system first and check the TXV or orifice tube for debris and replace as necessary. Vacuum down all the way too so as to make sure you got all the moisture out of it.*
Thanks!
Forkliftt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2011, 11:06 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Chris Foster's Avatar
 
City: Anacortes, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Juz-B-Cuz
Vessel Model: 38' Rawson Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 278
RE: Which refrigerant??

Uhm, a question -- what do you mean by "freeze up" and why do you think there's a refrigerant leak?* I assume you mean ice on the evaporator coils, no?*
Chris Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2011, 04:22 AM   #9
Guru
 
Forkliftt's Avatar
 
City: Biloxi Mississippi
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Patricia Louise II
Vessel Model: 1983 42' Present Sundeck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,433
RE: Which refrigerant??

Quote:
Chris Foster wrote:


Uhm, a question -- what do you mean by "freeze up" and why do you think there's a refrigerant leak?* I assume you mean ice on the evaporator coils, no?*


Yes, the evaporator coils. A couple of weeks ago while moving the boat to Biloxi this happened. It's a split system, the coil is in a locker in the saloon. It takes a mirror to see/ replace the filter. I discovered it was very dirty. I replaced it and thawed the unit by running just the blower. That night it "froze up" again. Last weekend I went to the boat prepared to charge the system if needed. After running it two nights and watching the temperature differential (15 degrees plus) I have decided that she was not low on freon, but I think that when I "thawed" the unit the previous weekend it had not completely thawed- thus it froze up again.
Forkliftt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2011, 07:10 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Chris Foster's Avatar
 
City: Anacortes, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Juz-B-Cuz
Vessel Model: 38' Rawson Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 278
RE: Which refrigerant??

I don't know exactly how this unit works, but frequently the expansion valve is thermostatically controlled to keep the coils above freezing.* They often have a little temperature sensor that mounts on or in the coil - if that comes loose or breaks, the coils run too cold.*

Some have a temperature adjustment that may need to be tweaked.

*
Chris Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2011, 08:07 AM   #11
Guru
 
Forkliftt's Avatar
 
City: Biloxi Mississippi
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Patricia Louise II
Vessel Model: 1983 42' Present Sundeck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,433
RE: Which refrigerant??

Quote:
Chris Foster wrote:


I don't know exactly how this unit works, but frequently the expansion valve is thermostatically controlled to keep the coils above freezing.* They often have a little temperature sensor that mounts on or in the coil - if that comes loose or breaks, the coils run too cold.*

Some have a temperature adjustment that may need to be tweaked.

*

Good point. I have that sensor with capillary tubing in front of the coil, and the filter fits between it and the coil. Maybe with the dirty filter I was getting a bogas reading on the sensor?
Forkliftt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2011, 05:53 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Chris Foster's Avatar
 
City: Anacortes, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Juz-B-Cuz
Vessel Model: 38' Rawson Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 278
RE: Which refrigerant??

It really needs to be touching the fins so that it gets the temperature of the coil, not of the air.* Sometimes it's wedged between two fins or there's some sort of metal clamp.* Perhaps it came out either through age & vibration or when the filter was cleaned?
Chris Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2011, 06:26 PM   #13
Guru
 
Forkliftt's Avatar
 
City: Biloxi Mississippi
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Patricia Louise II
Vessel Model: 1983 42' Present Sundeck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,433
RE: Which refrigerant??

Chris,
You know- The capillary tube bulb is NOT fastened to the coils. In fact, I cut the fiberglass filter to size and then slip the filter between the bulb and the fins. I definitely need to correct this.
Forkliftt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2011, 11:48 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Chris Foster's Avatar
 
City: Anacortes, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Juz-B-Cuz
Vessel Model: 38' Rawson Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 278
RE: Which refrigerant??

That would surely explain the problem you're having.* The coils are supposed to be in the high 30's so that they don't freeze, but the capilary being in the warm intake air would run it as cold as it can get.
Chris Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2011, 04:00 AM   #15
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,531
RE: Which refrigerant??

A TX valve uses the temperature bulb to regulate the suction behind the valve.

In refrigeration suction is the measure , of temperature the unit will operate at.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2011, 04:56 AM   #16
Guru
 
Forkliftt's Avatar
 
City: Biloxi Mississippi
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Patricia Louise II
Vessel Model: 1983 42' Present Sundeck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,433
RE: Which refrigerant??

Quote:
Chris Foster wrote:


That would surely explain the problem you're having.* The coils are supposed to be in the high 30's so that they don't freeze, but the capilary being in the warm intake air would run it as cold as it can get.
That's true. I am working with a knowledgable buddy also and have found the my supply grills are not large enough (square inches) for the CFM's coming out of the air handler. He is designing a new plenum and we will add an additional vent and this should help also.
Forkliftt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2011, 11:42 AM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20
RE: Which refrigerant??

Quote:
Forkliftt wrote:Chris Foster wrote:
*

That would surely explain the problem you're having.* The coils are supposed to be in the high 30's so that they don't freeze, but the capilary being in the warm intake air would run it as cold as it can get.
*

That's true. I am working with a knowledgable buddy also and have found the my supply grills are not large enough (square inches) for the CFM's coming out of the air handler. He is designing a new plenum and we will add an additional vent and this should help also.

*This is more likely your problem...Lack of air flow as your buddy says...

The sensor bulb you are reffering to is for your manual t-stat, and should Not touch the fins or coil if you want to maintain cabin temp...It should be in the return air path so as to get a constant sample of cabin air temp with the fan running.

Most All Marine A/C built till 2011 with R-22 refrigerant use a Capiliary Tube metering devise...Not TXV...However...Dometic's new "Emerald" series split systems with R-410a use TXV valves (2) at both the condensing unit & the air handler...

Self Contained units still use Cap tube...Even with the 410a

A trick: To de-ice that coil quickly...Switch the unit to the heat mode....That is if the T-stat will allow it...If it's too warm in the cabin it may not...

Also: If you hear the compressor run & the reversing valve switch but get no heat...You are most likely low on refrigerant...When slightly low the system may cool but won't heat.

Steve~
spcoolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2011, 12:01 PM   #18
Guru
 
Forkliftt's Avatar
 
City: Biloxi Mississippi
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Patricia Louise II
Vessel Model: 1983 42' Present Sundeck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,433
RE: Which refrigerant??

Got it. Don't touch the coils! I'm working on more air flow. Thanks!
__________________

Forkliftt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nova Cool fridge -adding refrigerant Jon Other Trawler Systems 8 02-19-2010 04:31 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012