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Old 04-16-2015, 05:04 PM   #21
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Ok. Done crawling and I am 99% sure this is waste plumbing layout

See what u guys think...Click image for larger version

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Old 04-16-2015, 06:04 PM   #22
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Greetings,
Sphincter-reffic! Well, I suspect you're going to have to increase your holding tank capacity OR reserve the on board heads for "emergency" use only. Major donations to be made onshore.
What do other Californians have for sewage purposes? Hopefully more that 15 gallons...
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Old 04-16-2015, 06:06 PM   #23
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Greetings,
Sphincter-reffic!

Goof ball! 😜 And I had my shirt on the whole time!
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Old 04-16-2015, 06:13 PM   #24
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So, having posted this layout, I have a question about regulations here in FL.
Is Lectra/Sans still legal Here to use on ICW AND NEAR SHORE

Am I possibly grandfathered in and legal due to age of system and boat?

Where can I find current regs?

Thanks as always!
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Old 04-16-2015, 06:46 PM   #25
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Don't know about grandfathered-in back in your area, but there is no such thing here. When an area is declared a no-discharge zone, it is no discharge for people with boats built in 1898 and boats built in 2015. No discharge is no discharge. If there were exceptions, there wouldn't be much point in the rule.

A 15 gallon holding tank is very minimal in my opinon, particularly for a live-aboard unless you are planning to pump out your tank almost every day. Obviously if you're planning on using the shore-side facilities in your home harbor most of the time this will make a major difference. But there will still be those times when getting up in the middle of the night to get dressed enough to trudge up the dock(s) to the shoreside restroom is not very appealing. Or if it's raining hard. Much easier to use a toilet on board, right?

We have two holding tanks on our boat, one for each toilet. The forward toilet goes to an approximately 40 gallon tank in the bilge between the engines. The aft toilet goes to a 25 gallon tank in the lazarette. Unfortunately, the aft head is the one that gets used the most. A 25 gallon tank given typical use by the two of us can go as much as four days before getting filled up close to the top. If we had more modern toilets, Vacuflush for example, our toilet water usage would be less.

When we have guests, really the only time the forward head gets used, the 40 gallon tank is good for a week or more, depending on toilet use.

At least, when we are boating on our own which is 95% of the time, we have the forward head and its 40-gallon tank to fall back on if the aft tank gets filled up and we've not had an opportunity to empty it.

If all we had on the boat was a 15 gallon tank, it would render our boat almost unusable for anything other than a weekend cruise.
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:24 PM   #26
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Greetings,
Mr. frg. Looks like you can dump your dump...Clean Vessel Act Boater FAQ | Florida Clean Marina Program | Florida DEP
BUT your treatment device has to be USCG approved...
I stand corrected regarding my previous advice.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:42 PM   #27
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Greetings,
Mr. frg. Looks like you can dump your dump..
.
Except in the three no-discharge zones in Florida.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:46 PM   #28
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Greetings,
Mr. Marin. Exactly. Except for the 3 mentioned zones but if Mr. frg intends to remain as a live-a-board where he is (in the Ft. Lauderdale area) he, apparently is free to condition his emission but if so I wouldn't want to be fishin'.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:48 PM   #29
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Greetings,
.... if Mr. frg intends to remain as a live-a-board where he is (in the Ft. Lauderdale area) he, apparently is free to condition his emission but if so I wouldn't want to be fishin'.
Me either.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:57 PM   #30
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Greetings,
Mr. frg. Looks like you can dump your dump...Clean Vessel Act Boater FAQ | Florida Clean Marina Program | Florida DEP
BUT your treatment device has to be USCG approved...
I stand corrected regarding my previous advice.

Exactly what I needed. Thank you so much!!!
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:59 PM   #31
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Me either.

Icksnay on the ishing fay! 🐠🐟
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:03 PM   #32
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Talking

[QUOTE=frgeorgeh;325680]So, having posted this layout, I have a question about regulations here in FL.
Is Lectra/Sans still legal Here to use on ICW AND NEAR SHORE

Yes...except for a few misguided marinas who think that forcing everyone to use holding tanks while on their property is "doing the right thing." The Keys and Destin Harbor are the only NDZ (no discharge zones) in FL...in the whole Gulf, in fact.

Am I possibly grandfathered in and legal due to age of system and boat?

Nope...but no need to be.

Where can I find current regs?

Federal marine sanitation regulations are spelled out in two parts of the Code of Federal Regulations:

40 CFR 140 PART 140--MARINE SANITATION DEVICE STANDARD

33 CFR part 159 Subpart A 33 CFR 159 (do not make the mistake of wandering beyond subpart A...B only applies to boat BUILDERS, not to owners)

You'll find the FL Marine Sanitation law here
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

And then there are the rules for the FL Keys:
Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary Regulations

The EPA list of NDZs, organized by state, is here: EPA NDZ list They do a pretty good job of keeping it up to date.

That oughta give you all the bed time reading you'll need for at least the rest of this week.
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:43 PM   #33
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Pump out problem

[QUOTE=HeadMistress;325745]
Quote:
Originally Posted by frgeorgeh View Post
So, having posted this layout, I have a question about regulations here in FL.
Is Lectra/Sans still legal Here to use on ICW AND NEAR SHORE

Yes...except for a few misguided marinas who think that forcing everyone to use holding tanks while on their property is "doing the right thing."

Thank you Head Mistress!
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Old 04-17-2015, 07:28 AM   #34
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While no in FL, thought might be helpful to cruisers, and show the confusing situation with MSDs we all face while cruising.

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Old 04-17-2015, 11:35 AM   #35
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Very valuable information I need to add to my files. Federal regulations already designate all "non-navigable" inland lakes as no discharge:
------
(a) 140.3 Standard. (1) In freshwater lakes, freshwater reservoirs or other freshwater impoundments whose inlets or outlets are such as to prevent the ingress or egress by vessel traffic subject to this regulation, or in rivers not capable of navigation by interstate vessel traffic subject to this regulation, marine sanitation devices certified by the U.S. Coast Guard (see 33 CFR part 159, published in 40 FR 4622, January 30, 1975), installed on all vessels shall be designed and operated to prevent the overboard discharge of sewage, treated or untreated, or of any waste derived from sewage. This shall not be construed to prohibit the carriage of Coast Guard-certified flow-through treatment devices which have been secured so as to prevent such discharges.
-----
Most of the closed inland lakes are Corps of Engineers lakes...that bulletin names all the TVA lakes, which is good to know.

It's also important to know that while the discharge of TREATED waste from USCG certified Type I or II MSD is legal on almost all of interstate inland river system, there are a few NDZs on those too...so if you do the Loop, you need to know where they are. You can find 'em in the EPA list of NDZs.
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Old 04-17-2015, 01:32 PM   #36
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The situation I faced was very similar. I found that the 'lectra-san system, unused for years, emptied directly overboard, bypassing the holding tank. Removing the 'lectra-san involved cutting a new hatch, cleaning part of the bilge, cutting the passageway sole and spilling the contents of the hoses back into the bilge I just cleaned. Seriously wondered why the hell I was boating again but now it's fixed and all is well.


Start with the vent and eliminate all the easy fixes first. If the system you have still works you may only have to route it to the holding tank. If it's dead, take it out and go with standard plumbing to the tank. More and more places are banning dumping anything. Keep it simple.
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Old 04-17-2015, 02:01 PM   #37
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Most of the closed inland lakes are Corps of Engineers lakes...that bulletin names all the TVA lakes, which is good to know.

Glad to provide useful information. Fortunately, the noted TVA list does not include the main lakes used for commercial, and thus cruising, traffic; TN Tom, Pickwick, Wilson, Wheeler, Guntersville, etc. Just more confusion!
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Old 04-17-2015, 02:03 PM   #38
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New problem - same topic

It seems those "Y" valves are frozen. Any tips or tricks to persuade them to turn?
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Old 04-17-2015, 03:15 PM   #39
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Fortunately, the noted TVA list does not include the main lakes used for commercial, and thus cruising, traffic; TN Tom, Pickwick, Wilson, Wheeler, Guntersville, etc.

That's because a) they aren't TVA lakes and b) they're all navigable interstate waterways...iow, rivers that eventually lead to the sea and under USCG jurisdiction (although state laws do apply as long as they don't supercede federal law).

Pickwick, Wheeler, Guntersville etc aren't bodies of dammed up water in otherwise non-navigable rivers, they're just very wide dammed up places in the navigable rivers. Dale Hollow Lake is the only NDZ in the Tenn-Tom system...which explains why pumpout facilities are VERY few and far between on the Tenn-Tom.

New York is another story...they've made just about everything but Niagara Falls an NDZ and it wouldn't surprise me if they're trying to figure out to do that.

NY York is another story...
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Old 04-17-2015, 04:42 PM   #40
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New problem - same topic

It seems those "Y" valves are frozen. Any tips or tricks to persuade them to turn?
If they are decent quality valves you should be able to take them apart. On the ones I've had experience with, you remove the handle and then the screws holding the top on the valve body.

Once you have it apart you can clean the inside of the valve chamber (I have used very fine bronze wool for this or you can use fine-grit sandpaper--- 220 and up) and the valve selector body itself. There may be a better way of doing this, and if anyone knows what it is it will be Peggie.

When I put it back together I lube the inside of the thing with dish soap (Joy, etc) just to get it all started. You could also grease the handle shaft where it goes through the top of the valve.

If the valve is readily accessible you can do this with the valve in place.

If you have to remove a valve from the hoses it's attached to, I've found that heat (from a heat gun) applied carefully to the hose end does absolute wonders for getting hoses off or on without damage.
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