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10-26-2016, 06:33 PM
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#1
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Guru
City: LaConner
Vessel Model: 34' CHB
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,257
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Puget Sound NDZ time frame?
According to the state web site, the EPA should soon be making a decision on whether to proceed with the NDZ for PS. Anyone have any current info other than whats on the DoE in WA? If I understand correctly doing so will make ANY discharge, treated or not into PS illegal. So was thinking about a Raritan system of some form but if we go NDZ, there is no point right? Timing is important. Either way I will have to do something with my old school existing system in this boat which has a holding tank, two new heads, Y valves, an old macerator and that's about it.
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10-26-2016, 07:00 PM
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#2
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,046
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This is on RBAW website.
Puget Sound No Discharge Zone (NDZ): We are now in wait-and-see mode with regard to the appeals filed with the Pollution Control Hearings Board (PCHB) to both place a ‘stay’ on the NDZ petition filed by the State Department of Ecology, and for the Board to hear the Marine Alliance case against the lack of science behind the NDZ. All motions to proceed (Marine Alliance) and dismiss (Ecology) have been filed. We’re particularly disappointed with provisions of the Ecology motion to dismiss that disputes its obligation to develop a sound scientific foundation for the NDZ designation. Also of note, we have drafted an RBAW comment letter to the U.S. EPA which we would refine and send if/when a comment period commences. My thanks in particular to 1st Vice President Wayne Gilham, and Brittany, for their work on the letter.
Recreational Boating Association of Washington - Legislative Issues
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10-26-2016, 08:25 PM
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#3
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Guru
City: LaConner
Vessel Model: 34' CHB
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,257
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Thanks for that. Sounds typical, slow drag out to more bureaucracy. I will follow that.
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10-26-2016, 08:38 PM
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#4
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
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I would love to see a decision made quickly, but at the same time I would rather they didn't make the entire Puget Sound a NDZ. So if a delay would allow some reason to enter the discussion, it would be good.
It puts you in a bind if you need to do something soon with your own system. It would really be a bummer if you or I were to install a Purasan or Lectrosan system only to see them be made unusable shortly thereafter.
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10-26-2016, 08:43 PM
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#5
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Guru
City: LaConner
Vessel Model: 34' CHB
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,257
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Which is why I wont until I have a better idea of whats coming. In the meantime, its winter, so will go about replacing my holding tank at least.
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10-27-2016, 11:07 AM
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#6
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,046
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SO this is so USA ignorance! They can make Puget Sound a NDZ. Only the US side! Most of us wait until we cross the Canadian boarder, then open our tanks on out going tide and send our crap back down to Washington State!!!!!
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10-27-2016, 11:13 AM
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#7
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,541
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Greetings,
Same old reason for this...Boaters are an easy target and TPTB can say they're addressing pollution issues. Remember that the next time a municipal plant overflows/malfunctions and pours, sometimes, millions of gallons of untreated sewage into a water way and vote accordingly (as it THAT would help...).
Unfortunately, restrictions might be put into effect with NO increase in pumpout facilities. IMO, any on board treatment devices should be severely restricted with a corresponding legally mandated increase in pumpout stations.
Just try to get your tank emptied between Chesapeake and Alligator River. Pretty slim pickin's'.
__________________
RTF
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10-27-2016, 11:44 AM
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#8
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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In today's world, you must be prepared to comply with No Discharge Zones as if you cruise enough, you'll encounter some. I work on the assumption that the entire world will become one and the the places I cruise, don't. One thing we've found too is that most no discharge zones make no allowance for on-boat treatment systems, regardless of the standards those systems meet. When we're cruising the coast, it's generally not an issue as we run outside most of the time. However, in doing the loop, it definitely has been. We have fueled more than 30 times and that sounds like a lot, but we've pumped out over 70 times in 7 months.
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10-27-2016, 11:46 AM
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#9
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Guru
City: LaConner
Vessel Model: 34' CHB
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,257
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The point of my thread,, the waiting game begins.
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10-27-2016, 11:57 AM
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#10
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 78puget-trawler
The point of my thread,, the waiting game begins.
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I wouldn't wait. It's inevitable that you'll find yourself somewhere with no discharge, so I'd assume that from the outset. I still like having the ability to treat and then discharge and we do so everywhere we can and on the vast majority of our cruising. But on the loop, that's just not been an option very often, nor has running three miles off shore since we entered the Hudson. Now that we're on the Tennessee River, we're able to discharge treated waste.
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10-27-2016, 12:07 PM
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#11
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction
SO this is so USA ignorance! They can make Puget Sound a NDZ. Only the US side! Most of us wait until we cross the Canadian boarder, then open our tanks on out going tide and send our crap back down to Washington State!!!!!
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Kind of like Victoria has been doing for years.
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10-27-2016, 12:13 PM
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#12
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,738
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It's just as stupid as emmision controled smal outboards and lawn mowers.
78,
Why are you changing your holding tank?
__________________
Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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10-27-2016, 12:16 PM
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#13
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Guru
City: LaConner
Vessel Model: 34' CHB
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,257
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I suspect its been in the boat since the earth cooled and its just un-useable toast.
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10-27-2016, 01:03 PM
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#14
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly
Greetings,
Same old reason for this...Boaters are an easy target and TPTB can say they're addressing pollution issues. Remember that the next time a municipal plant overflows/malfunctions and pours, sometimes, millions of gallons of untreated sewage into a water way and vote accordingly (as it THAT would help...).
Unfortunately, restrictions might be put into effect with NO increase in pumpout facilities. IMO, any on board treatment devices should be severely restricted with a corresponding legally mandated increase in pumpout stations.
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The WA State Dept of Ecology in their petition to the EPA for the change to a NDZ for all of Puget Sound made a strong case for the fragility of the Puget Sound ecosystem. Water quality threatens not only wildlife habitat but commercial aquaculture operations.
The problem is that they then jump to the conclusion that the discharge of treated waste should end to help fix the above problem. In the material that I read, they didn't make the case for banning the discharge of treated waste from recreational boats. (this is from memory so won't be exact) Their own data shows that 80% of the Nitrogen in the Puget Sound comes from the ocean through Juan de Fuca Strait. Of the remaining 20%, 65% of that comes from river inflow into the Sound. Then the majority of the rest comes from municiple wastewater. They don't even bother to quantify how much comes from recreational boaters.
In looking at bacterial contamination, their study shows that most of the bacterial contamination comes from municiple sewage treatment plants and private septic tanks. Even so, I don't see the state being in a hurry to tighten up the regulations on the cities and force the counties to institute mandated sewage systems. Again, they don't even bother to calculate the bacterial load caused by treated waste from recreational boaters.
The final issue is nutrients. Again, most of them come from the rivers (natural sources and run off) but a lot comes from other sources as well. While they make a big point about the danger to aquaculture, I never saw them reference the nutrient pollution caused by aquaculture.
This was all from a very quick reading of a section of the petition. Maybe there are some more rational arguments that I missed.
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10-27-2016, 01:07 PM
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#15
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Guru
City: LaConner
Vessel Model: 34' CHB
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,257
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The 90 day review period is technically up so perhaps we will hear something soon. Or not.
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10-27-2016, 01:56 PM
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#16
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Guru
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,076
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It's too bad there is no way to apply NDZ only to boats over a certain tonnage. I can see not wanting the big cruise ships to pump out in the sound, but I find it hard to believe rec boats are such a big issue.
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
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10-27-2016, 02:19 PM
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#17
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Veteran Member
City: New Bern
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 60
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I hate to say it, but I can almost guarantee that the EPA will grant the state of Washington their request for a NDZ.
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10-27-2016, 03:46 PM
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#18
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays
The WA State Dept of Ecology in their petition to the EPA for the change to a NDZ for all of Puget Sound made a strong case for the fragility of the Puget Sound ecosystem. Water quality threatens not only wildlife habitat but commercial aquaculture operations.
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So I highlighted the above. The Feds and State of Washington only have jurisdiction in US Waters. So anything north of the San Juans, well it won't be a NDZ......
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10-27-2016, 03:53 PM
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#19
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction
So I highlighted the above. The Feds and State of Washington only have jurisdiction in US Waters. So anything north of the San Juans, well it won't be a NDZ......
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Very true, but many folks like me are still tied to dirtside jobs so spend the vast majority of our time within the confines of US waters.
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10-27-2016, 03:58 PM
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#20
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays
Very true, but many folks like me are still tied to dirtside jobs so spend the vast majority of our time within the confines of US waters.
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Yes but the boarder is only 5 minutes from Roche....
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