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Old 11-24-2012, 07:14 AM   #81
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Gonzo is correct here. Barbecue is a method of cooking by indirect heat in the smoke of a wood fire. What we commonly call smoking. Anything cooked over direct heat is grilled. Barbecue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In all due respect to our friends Down Under most of the cookers depicted were really grills for cooking over direct heat. Nothing wrong with that, but in the South that is not barbecue.
Point of order Don. The BBQs depicted have all got lids. I agree the open type of method cooking over direct heat is grilling, but once you close a lid, (and turn the heat down, which is also usually done with lid down), then although not smoking it in quite the traditional way, (which now tends to be referred to as smoked), this method by common usage is now also called barbequing...I believe...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grilling
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Old 11-24-2012, 08:55 AM   #82
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Point of order Don. The BBQs depicted have all got lids. I agree the open type of method cooking over direct heat is grilling, but once you close a lid, (and turn the heat down, which is also usually done with lid down), then although not smoking it in quite the traditional way, (which now tends to be referred to as smoked), this method by common usage is now also called barbequing...I believe...
Grilling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If the burner heats wood chips to make smoke, and the meat is not over direct heat it is smoking. I have a grill with hood for grilling steaks. Very high temperature infrared type grates. Love it. Also have a smoker.

Has anyone tried a stove top smoker. I have one like this that works superbly. Great for a short rack of ribs or maple glazed smoked salmon. You can smoke in any weather. Very little smoke escapes the sealed top.

Camerons Stovetop Smoker - Camerons Smoker | cutleryandmore.com
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:25 AM   #83
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No way, Marin!

And since we're already far off topic, I'll continue .... around here pit beef is a staple. I've recently heard that pit beef is a Maryland thing and is pretty much unheard of in the south. Can any of you good 'ol southern boys confirm that?
No pit beef around here (I'm originally from MD). Very hard to find scrapple also.
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:12 PM   #84
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Pit beef all over Texas. Some over 100 years old. Now that's a nice cure! Just have to find them in the small, old towns.
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:24 AM   #85
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Pit beef all over Texas. Some over 100 years old. Now that's a nice cure! Just have to find them in the small, old towns.
Aaaaah, beef....100 yrs old...? No matter how well cured you're welcome mate. I'll just stick to 'Hog's Breath' slow cooked for 14 hrs not 100 yrs...
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:51 AM   #86
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I'll just stick to 'Hog's Breath' slow cooked for 14 hrs not 100 yrs...

Although the French (who else ?) rave about stew where the pot simply gets more ingredients daily , and hasn't been emptied or cleaned in a century or so.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:55 AM   #87
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:39 AM   #88
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Geeee Whizzzz Good People... I’ve read many of the early posts in both threads... What is the BIG Rub here??

Why are you constantly, needlessly battering upon each other? The end result should be that safety for all concerned using propane is all that’s really important. For goodness sake, I've owned boats with propane, hand pump alcohol, electric and even a mobile butane fueled stove. Each type has its own complications for reasons of safety. As we all know, propane sinks in air. Therefore, in a secure, valve-safe and weather-safe location its pressure tank must be well ventilated via total openness away from any openings leading to inside the boat or totally sealed in a containment area that has sealed tubes leading completely overboard and away from any openings leading to inside the boat. Also applicable types of valve shut off safety switches and warning signals for a leak should be present; as well as no fuel-line junctions other than at tank and at stove. It’s not rocket science, after all. There must be some written and pictured installation standards available that new boat builders utilize that could be followed as rule of thumb for correct installation of propane aboard a previously non equipped boat. I’m sure they can be located. Google... maybe?

Personally, although many disagree with my choice (but others don’t!)... I prefer electric stove, oven and microwave for safety and convenience. With a strong, quiet gennny aboard, of course... Just sayen!
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:24 AM   #89
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.................. There must be some written and pictured installation standards available that new boat builders utilize that could be followed as rule of thumb for correct installation of propane aboard a previously non equipped boat. Iím sure they can be located. Google... maybe?
There are and I already posted a link above, Here it is again:

Here is a link to the ABYC requirements:

http://www.abycinc.org/committees/A-01.pdf
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:24 AM   #90
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There are and I already posted a link above, Here it is again:

Here is a link to the ABYC requirements:

http://www.abycinc.org/committees/A-01.pdf

The link you have posted is a good start but there are several other related standards i.e. Galley Stoves A-3, Gasoline & Propane Detection Systems A-14, Carbon Monoxide Detection Systems A-24, LPG & GNG Fueled Appliances A-26, Cooking Appliances with Integral LPG Cylinders.

I have posted all of these standards HERE

Reading these standards without a clear understanding of the definitions used may lead to misunderstanding the intent of the standard so please read the definition section at the begining of each standard.

Reading these standards without knowing the many other standards referenced within these standards may also lead to a less than clear picture. The standards referenced include the CFR's, ASME, NFPA, ASTM, SAE and UL. Posting all of these standards would take more time than I have but they are all available on line if you search deep enough.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:06 AM   #91
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None of the standards are anything like a "How to Install Propane Systems on a Boat". They don't take you step by step how to do something.

When I was working, I kept a current copy of the National Electrical Code because some of what I did was covered by that code. I also had a book on how to interpret the National Electrical Code which as more of a "connect the green wire here" type of book.

I don't know of anything like that for boats, at least for propane systems, but if you don't understand the regulations, you cannot follow them and you'll most likely end up with a non-compliant, unsafe system.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:12 AM   #92
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Art

I read your first sentence (let us all just get along) on your 12:37 AM Today's post and thought what a nice man. Then I read your last sentence (use electric you dunderheads) and thought what a provoker. I guess this happens with midnight posts.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:13 AM   #93
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Art

I read your first sentence (let us all just get along) on your 12:37 AM Today's post and thought what a nice man. Then I read your last sentence (use electric you dunderheads) and thought what a provoker. I guess this happens with midnight posts.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:24 PM   #94
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OMG you guys!!!

Art tell me about your strong quiet Genny? Details including what year is it please?
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:56 PM   #95
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There are and I already posted a link above, Here it is again:

Here is a link to the ABYC requirements:
Standards, Standards NOT requirements. Requirements if you want to meet ABYC STANDARDS but by no means a requirement that it be done this way. Chuck
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:01 PM   #96
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OMG you guys!!!

Art tell me about your strong quiet Genny? Details including what year is it please?
Howdy Jennifer, always great to hear from you!

Our real “cool” operating genny is a Kohler 7.5 KW gen set, wired to boat’s entire 120V electrical system on "load start" basis. Being hooked into every breaker on our boat's electric panel when in use the gen provides 120V electric service to whatever we desire to utilize, just like having the boat plugged into shore power. It's in near perf condition and I believe an orig on our 1977 Tolly. Orig owner (we're the # 2 owners) used it very little, so low hours and well maintained as he babied the boat’s mechanicals in every way (same professional marine mechanic for decades). Closed loop fresh water/coolant with super quiet muffler. Flow through raw water with burned fuel exhaust, to keep heat transfer system cooled, exits stbd side amidships. Depending on wind direction and anchor arrangements we sometimes need to close starboard slider salon access door to stop fumes from entering... but usually not necessary. Because the gen is under a tightly closed and well insulated floor (with thick marine carpet padding and Berber carpet on top) that and the quiet muffler keep gen noise in and out of boat to a minimal... that low noise ratio is also due to it being a gas engine. Diesel gens are usually noisier; at least the older models were... maybe the newer models are somewhat quieter. There are also "sound-shields" available to further reduce noise transfer inside boat.

Cautionary Notes:

1. One thing we don’t do is use every electric item at once, whether on gen or shore AC power. Too much current being forced though a 1977 marine electric panel can fry things if not careful and could start a fire (I know from experience). Matter O’ Fact... always trying to error on side of caution, I don’t even allow the amp meter get much over 20 A before I begin switching off certain area breaker switches (even though the main breaker on panel can take up to 40 A for short duration). In other words... I don’t run the oven on high, with hot water heater heating and micro on at same time as there are 120V lights on and the main battery bank’s charger running, with Christmas lights plugged into receptacles.
2. IMO, for any on-board, under-floor gen set to be safely/carefully/correctly operated it is important to have a fully integrated control panel with a main transfer switch (in order to allow change from dock to gen power), a main breaker covering entire AC system on boat, and independent breakers for various electric accoutrements that addresses both genny and shore power capabilities; with a volt and amp meter clearly visual on or about the panel so that visual acuity of what is occurring is easily at hand.
3. If you do not have a gen set and plan to add a “permanent” genny aboard boat, I strongly recommend you discuss same with a very experienced marine electrician and maybe have said electrician design the gen set / control box system of your dreams. There are good dealers who have new and refurbished gen sets. The dealer may be able to recommend their preferred marine electrician.
4. Also, and EXTREMELY importantly – IMHO, never leave a gen set running while asleep during any time of day or night, or when away from boat for any long period of time. In addition to dangerous exhaust fumes when asleep or away you will not hear, see, or smell items that make you want to shut things down for checking on what you heard or saw or smelled before you restart the gen.
5. And... be sure to have ample Carbon Monoxide and/or other fume alarms operable and placed in appropriate locations.

We hardly ever run the gen more that an hour in morn and hour in eve... often less and never when near by boats are sleeping. Besides for cooking, water heating, video player charging, and main-bank battery charging it can also work real well for non portable high-power plug-in tools when required.

Good Luck! Art
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:48 PM   #97
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Standards, Standards NOT requirements. Requirements if you want to meet ABYC STANDARDS but by no means a requirement that it be done this way. Chuck
OK, "Standards". There are no boat police and you won't get a citation for cooking inside your boat on a Coleman gasoline stove or a charcoal hibachi, but following the ABYC "standards" insures the safest installation possible and insures that you haven't overlooked something.

There are a couple of exceptions on this forum (), but most of us don't have the expertise or testing equipment to reinvent all this stuff. That's why it's been done for us.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:07 PM   #98
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Thanks Art. Ours is not nearly as loud as the mains but not something I want to listen to for no good reason (it is diesel). (Bacon is a fairly good reason but it takes FOREVER...) the generator leaks every fluid it contains. AND it trips it's breaker fairly frequently. Overall a complete PITA. We are debating an overhaul versus replacement. I was kinda hoping you had a recent vintage that you could recommend. we follow all the steps you mention.

I am hopeful the tripping issue may be resolved now that we had some wiring issues corrected--but other issues remain and it does impact my enjoyment of the boat as I am planning meals (when anchored out) around running my generator and not what I actually want to eat! Propane is attractive but figuring out where to install the bottles and the gas line, plus buying the appliance, is less appealing. probably pretty unlikely that I will go this way but still considering...
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:21 PM   #99
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Thanks Art. Ours is not nearly as loud as the mains but not something I want to listen to for no good reason (it is diesel). (Bacon is a fairly good reason but it takes FOREVER...) the generator leaks every fluid it contains. AND it trips it's breaker fairly frequently. Overall a complete PITA. We are debating an overhaul versus replacement. I was kinda hoping you had a recent vintage that you could recommend. we follow all the steps you mention.

I am hopeful the tripping issue may be resolved now that we had some wiring issues corrected--but other issues remain and it does impact my enjoyment of the boat as I am planning meals (when anchored out) around running my generator and not what I actually want to eat! Propane is attractive but figuring out where to install the bottles and the gas line, plus buying the appliance, is less appealing. probably pretty unlikely that I will go this way but still considering...

Do the conversion- you won't regret it.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:05 PM   #100
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We are debating an overhaul versus replacement.
The TV/radio station I worked at in Hawaii had a traffic reporter/helicopter pilot who was forced by a budget-conscious station owner to fly the world's most unreliable, piece of sh*t helicopter, the Hughes 300. It fell out of the sky with great regularity, fortunately always immediately after takeoff so it never fell very far. One day not long after its latest crash and subsequent rebuilding I asked the pilot if there was anything that could be done to improve the reliability of the thing. This was the first time I ever heard the phrase---

"You can only polish a turd so much."

This statement, I think, applies to old, outmoded boat generators, too. Get a new one if you can.
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