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Old 04-20-2012, 05:02 PM   #41
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Take the time to read the article on Stabilizers I posted earlier. It's an Australian research article on fishing stabilizers. These are located like active fines but fixed. Like having apposed centerboards on a sailboat.


That is sort of what I call Bilge/Twin Keels as they are about 8 to 10 ft long and hang down even/level with the main keel. So they are like bilge keels but wider and not as long. So if a ground or on the hard/grid it will help keep the Eagle up right. The Eagle has a round hull and for round hull boat they tend to roll on its side usually causing more damage than the actual grounding. I have a chart that bilge keels are about 50% to 75% of paravanes which require to not activating/deployment/retrieval. I am hoping the bilge keels will be enough as the Eagle does have a slow comfortable roll.

I would much rather have passive rathern than active.
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:47 PM   #42
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If I didn't have the active stabilizers I doubt I would front the money for them. The Australian fins are long and thin, high aspect, not unlike a dagger board for a sailing dingy. I don't think they would double as props to stabilize a grounded boat. They are supposed to be close to drag free, again I'm just quoting this report. Bilge keels are supposed to have 10-15% drag. Somehow intuition say's this is high. As to grounding and needing to stand upright, you have a really good point. A lot of grounded round bottom boats fill with water before they right themselves and float. There are a couple of examples by the mothball fleet near Benicia CA. Non of the bilge keels I've seen are anywhere near as large as your describing. There may be a reason.
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:51 PM   #43
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... There are a couple of examples by the mothball fleet near Benicia CA. Non of the bilge keels I've seen are anywhere near as large as your describing. There may be a reason.
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:59 PM   #44
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That was quick

Just the one i was thinking of.
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Old 04-20-2012, 10:26 PM   #45
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Kolstrand Marine Supply, Seattle. 206-784-2500

If you email me yur email address I will email you information that I have.

Plan on adding bilge keels before Fish Stabilizers. The keels are to reduce the roll but also help to keep the Eagle up right when grounded and/or on the hard/grid.
bilge keels also adds permanent drag to the hull. Some say up to 10%..and it cannot be removed, whereas paravanes/fish can.
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:28 PM   #46
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When we built Hoa we already fit two daggerboards you can see them
on the side of the wheelhouse.
Dérives - Le blog de long-cours
But the roll attenuation is very limited...
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:34 AM   #47
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Have only home made model tests , but I believe a simple sailboat style centerboard would be ideal for most cruisers.

The board case is created wider than for a sail boat so the board (with a different pin and location) can be given about a 5deg angle by a ram.

An Air ram is ideal as air cylinders are cheap and really fast.

And leaks do not get pumped overboard to get the sheene police excited.

When not in use or on a grounding (cruising boat right?) the board simply retracts.

Cheap to build , cheap to maintain , but probably to costly for most boat assemblers to install, as it is not seen.

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Old 04-22-2012, 10:15 AM   #48
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Very interesting

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When we built Hoa we already fit two daggerboards you can see them
on the side of the wheelhouse.
Dérives - Le blog de long-cours
But the roll attenuation is very limited...
What a clever location to install dagger boards , on what looks like a very interesting boat. I'm guessing but your boat appears to have hard chines and not a round bilge. If that is the case, you may have so much primary stability and lift generated by the chines that the fins aren't capable of controlling roll. Or maybe the correct term should be pitching. I think boats with really rounded hull shapes, like the Nordhavns benefit the greatest from stabilizers. How far can you extend your centerboards. I would like to more about your boat.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:30 PM   #49
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Our dagger board

Actually we can extend them 5'9" under the water line
We are thinking make them longer
But like we wrote (sorry in French)on our blog , their first target was help to keep the right course and put less 'near 0°) angle of rudder when we motoring on just one engine.
For that they work very well, they are asymmetric (I hope it is the same word in English)
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:55 AM   #50
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Paravanes

Tested the stabilizer/fish setup this past Saturday. Once they were in the water they worked great. The biggest lesson I learned is to have all systems ready to go before you hit the rough water. I was alone on this test run and had to get on the cabin roof to get the fish out of the slotted holder, not fun at all. Then getting the poles deployed was a big pia because I had to climb around the side of the boat on the narrow catwalk and yank them outboard. I was smart enough to wear a life jacket and put the gear in neutral. Pretty nice test run after that, what normally (without fish) would have been a rolly uncomfortable ride was pretty smooth. Tested the fish at all points of the compass.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:13 AM   #51
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Glad they are working for you Mike. Good post and it is important you are sharing your experience. From your post I can see, once again, the hazards of "fish." There are many people happy with them but just be careful. The risk, disapperance and injury potential from deployment and rigging failure is real.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:22 AM   #52
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All true SC, moving slow and cautious with the fish is the way to go. That being said, it's almost like having a new boat with a smooth ride, so well worth the hassle.
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:02 AM   #53
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GC I got your Pm. Just getting back in myself. didn't need my paravanes this weekend myself.
You asked about tight turns and the fish swinging into the side of the boat. Did you test that out?

At 8 knts, the speed I cruise at. I never had an issue with it.

I don't know how fast you cruise.

When next I am out I will try some close quarter manuvering with the vanes deployed.

They do do the trick when It ges snotty out.
SD
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:12 AM   #54
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I cruise at 7 kn, 1600 rpm. I did try a few fairly tight turns, no problem. I also snagged a crab trap float, thought for sure it was going to swing into the running gear so I put the boat in neutral and coasted to almost a stop and the float came loose from the fish, got lucky.
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:53 AM   #55
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Paravanes scare the heck put of me! I installed a new thick wall aluminum mast, beefed up the stays, have the fish and poles. But I really want to try the twin bilge keels first. For some reason I have the gut feeling/fear that I am going to ground the Eagle on purpose. I guess its having memories of BC Canadian coast line, rapid change in depth of 100+ ft, rugged coast and big tide swings.


You might want to look at an ART, Anti Roll Tank, which is a tank that is mounted on the roof with baffles to times the move of water back and forth to counter the roll. A 58 sister boat cross the Pacific to Hawaii with an ART. He mounted it on the pilot house roof about 8 ft long and 3 ft wide. He made a ply box and played with the baffles and them fiber glassed the box and baffles in place.

Some boats/ships have flumes built in their bilge hull to counter the roll, but on the roof seems to work also. So the idea been around for a long time.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:30 PM   #56
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Paravanes

Very interesting to heard about your news paravanes .
Because what I read about them on the site of the Canadian Ministry is quiet scary .
(capsize after a loss of one fish)
Must be remove in case of realy bad wheather is it true or not ?
Because for us it could be very interesting for one very good reason....not expensive way for get a smoother ride !
For the tank on the roof , I am affraid by the loss of stability : adding weight so high and also the effect of this 'carene liquide'.
On some paravanes systems I saw the poole cant be gooing back because one 'wire" is replaced by a tube , is it better or worst to use ?
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:40 PM   #57
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Gulf Comanche where we could have more details concerning your boat ?
I am always curious !
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:49 PM   #58
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LC62:
My boat is 38' long, 12' wide, 60 hp Perkins 4-236 engine. Anything else you want to know?
GC
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:01 PM   #59
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Quote:
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You might want to look at an ART, Anti Roll Tank, which is a tank that is mounted on the roof with baffles to times the move of water back and forth to counter the roll. A 58 sister boat cross the Pacific to Hawaii with an ART. He mounted it on the pilot house roof about 8 ft long and 3 ft wide. He made a ply box and played with the baffles and them fiber glassed the box and baffles in place.
Would fear this could make matters worse, not better. Wouldn't this increase the potential for instability by raising the center of gravity? Wave frequency is also variable so wouldn't counter "sloshing" potentially increase roll if the baffles are not adjusted for wave frequency?
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:29 PM   #60
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" potentially increase roll if the baffles are not adjusted for wave frequency?

There you go mark getting all technical.

I'm sure there is a web site to calculate wave frequency.

I think I will let you handle that one I'm going fishing.

Sd
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