Over 65' Sanitation Device you have on board?

[mvmahal]

Just wonder what you over 65 footers have on board for sanitation?



Thanks

 

[Osprey69]

Just curious...why the over 65' qualifier?

 

[Hippocampus]

Given current and likely future trends if doing a new build would do three heads on something around ~65’.
Two full with showers and conventional toilets with separate holding tanks and pump out fittings for each. And one day head using an incinerating toilet. When offshore you don’t need the holding tanks. When coastal if you have an incinerating toilet you don’t need the pump out. Unlike composting toilets no mess as well.

 

[MYTraveler]

Just curious...why the over 65' qualifier?

I don't remember the specifics, but when I was considering my current boat, I ruled out anything over 65' as additional rules come into play. My boat is 64.5 feet, so I am free of those burdens, but wouldn't be surprised that regulatorily imposed sanitary system requirements are different. FWIW, my boat has 4 heads (a day head on the mezz deck, an owner's stateroom head, a head for the VIP forward and a head for the midship bunk stateroom. The midship and VIP do share a jack and jill shower arrangement.

 

[psneeld]

From EPA web site:

"Type I MSDs are flow-through devices, which are suitable for vessels up to 65 feet in length. These devices use a combination of maceration and disinfection to treat vessel sewage. After pulverizing the solids, the effluent is exposed to disinfectants (often, chlorine tablets) that reduce bacteria levels to below the established limits under the Clean Water Act. In some cases, bactericide can be generated from the saltwater using special electrodes, so that no added disinfectant products are needed.

Type II MSDs are flow-through devices suitable for larger vessels. Type II devices are biological systems. First, sewage is aerated so that the bacteria already present in the sewage can thrive and begin to consume/break down the sewage as their food supply. As with the Type I devices, the remaining liquid waste is then treated via contact with chlorine tablets, UV disinfection, or other methods of disinfection. Overall, Type II devices can achieve better treatment levels than Type I devices because of the biological component of the system, as opposed to maceration.

Type III MSDs are holding tanks which do not treat sewage onboard the vessel. These devices are designed to store sewage effluent while preventing overboard discharge."

 

[twistedtree]

We have a pretty conventional setup with a holding tank, deck pumpout fitting, and an overboard pumpout. The toilets are macerating type which is the only type I would get. I took your question to be about the holding and processing system, not the number of heads for such a boat, but happy to share if that's also what you are asking. We do not have any sort of processing system, so sewage needs to be pumped out via the deck fitting, or pumped overboard in an allowed location.


BTW, I don't think there is anything special or different about the system because it's over 65' (20m) vs under.


Oh, and I have one toilet that can be valved for direct overboard discharge as a backup in case all else fails.

 

[psneeld]

We have a pretty conventional setup with a holding tank, deck pumpout fitting, and an overboard pumpout. The toilets are macerating type which is the only type I would get. I took your question to be about the holding and processing system, not the number of heads for such a boat, but happy to share if that's also what you are asking. We do not have any sort of processing system, so sewage needs to be pumped out via the deck fitting, or pumped overboard in an allowed location.


BTW, I don't think there is anything special or different about the system because it's over 65' (20m) vs under.


Oh, and I have one toilet that can be valved for direct overboard discharge as a backup in case all else fails.

There may not be (but usually is) much of an engineering difference but it has to be a USCG approved Type II device for vessels over 65 feet (under 65 feet and you can use a Type I). I am not sure if vessels over 65 feet can just have a holding tank...I would think so, especially for some inland areas...but never looked into it.

 

[twistedtree]

There may not be (but usually is) much of an engineering difference but it has to be a USCG approved Type II device for vessels over 65 feet (under 65 feet and you can use a Type I). I am not sure if vessels over 65 feet can just have a holding tank...I would think so, especially for some inland areas...but never looked into it.

I was referring to a simple holding tank arrangement which is what I have. Type III I think based on CG/EPA rules. In that case I'm not aware of any difference in requirements above vs below 20m.

 

[twistedtree]

I was referring to a simple holding tank arrangement which is what I have. Type III I think based on CG/EPA rules. In that case I'm not aware of any difference in requirements above vs below 20m.

I also see I referred to a "holding tank and processing system". Confusing for sure. The "processing" I had in mind was deck pumpout and overboard pumpout.

 

[Mako]

When I was in the Middle East the big Dhows were all equipped with highly-reliable type-0 MSDs. Yep, never a clogged hose on these babies.

 

[Lepke]

No discharge zones are expanding. That's why I chose Incinolets. If you're over 65', you have room for a generator or a decent inverter and batteries.

In the 12 years I've had Incinolets, I've had to buy no parts except the liners.

 

[O C Diver]

I think a great deal depends on where you plan to cruise. If near coastal and inland USA, the concept of a large holding tank is pretty hard to beat. On my 45' boat with an 80 gallon holding tank, I'm generally looking for water before I need a pumpout. If I were building a 65' displacement hull where weight isn’t a consideration, 200 to 300 gallon capacity would be my goal.

Ted

 

[HeadMistress]

Holding tanks (Type III MSD) are legal on all boats of any size and required on all non-navigable inland waters and in all the waters of the Great Lakes on both sides of the border. Type I MSD (USCG certified onboard treatment device) are optional, legal in most coastal waters and navigable inland rivers and may be used on boats up to 66'. Any treatment device on a boat 66'+ must be a USCG certified Type II. Because marinas are considered private property and therefore can make any rules that don't violate federal law, there are a few that require the use of holding tanks while in their property regardless of whether the waters outside them allow the discharge of treated waste. So if you opt for onboard treatment it's wise to have at least a small holding tank too.

As for the size of any holding tank, that's up to you...keeping in mind that water and waste weigh 8.333 lbs/gal and the average daily volume for each person continuously aboard is 3 gallons.

--Peggie

 

[pjtemplin]

In the 12 years I've had Incinolets, I've had to buy no parts except the liners.

OK, but Mike Rowe had to fix an incinolet in a segment of Dirty Jobs...

 

[Comodave]

Look at Raritan Marine Elegance heads. They are a macerating head and will take 1” discharge hose so it doesn’t take as much water to get the hose flushed out. Also they will discharge an incredible distance to the holding tank. All the maintenance parts are inside the head itself so it is fairly easy to work on.

 

[La Sirena]

Oh, and I have one toilet that can be valved for direct overboard discharge as a backup in case all else fails.

My backup plan is buckit & chuckit.

 

[HeadMistress]

Neither of which is legal in US waters or the Great Lakes on both sides of the border. You must be in open ocean at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline to legally discharge (defined as "includes, but is not limited to, any spilling, leaking, pumping, pouring, emitting, emptying or dumping") raw sewage, defined as "human body wastes and the wastes from toilets and other receptacles intended to receive or retain body wastes."

You'll probably get away with it if you do it discretely and aren't unlucky enough catch the attention of a USCG person with a Barney Fife complex or an enviro-zealot. They're rare, but they do exist.


--Peggie

 

[fgarriso]

What if someone "barfs" over the side. How is that classified.

 

[HeadMistress]

There doesn't seem to be a definition in the CFR for food your body rejects before digesting it. However I strongly recommend that you choose the lee side of the boat for your ejection maneuver, lean as far as possible and have a hose at the ready in case you haven't leaned far enough.

However, fwiw...it's legal to employ the same type of maneuver to dispose of food and/or drink that has been digested (Swim platforms or docks can be safer deployment venues for disposing of anything but liquids) ...although you could run afoul of any local public indecency laws except in France, where there don't seem to be any.

--Peggie

 

[Lou_tribal]

Neither of which is legal in US waters or the Great Lakes on both sides of the border. You must be in open ocean at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline to legally discharge (defined as "includes, but is not limited to, any spilling, leaking, pumping, pouring, emitting, emptying or dumping") raw sewage, defined as "human body wastes and the wastes from toilets and other receptacles intended to receive or retain body wastes."

You'll probably get away with it if you do it discretely and aren't unlucky enough catch the attention of a USCG person with a Barney Fife complex or an enviro-zealot. They're rare, but they do exist.


--Peggie

And even more, in Canada inland waters, overboard discharged must be disconnected and sealed to be legal.

L

 

[Doggersbank]

Our 67 footer has a Hamann system that treats both black & gray water for discharge. www.hamannag.com

 

[RK Federal]

Anybody had any experience (good or bad) w/ Raritan's "Lectra-Scan" device advertised as being USCG-approved and allowing overboard discharge of human waste anywhere except in a designated No Discharge Zone?

 

[psneeld]

Anybody had any experience (good or bad) w/ Raritan's "Lectra-Scan" device advertised as being USCG-approved and allowing overboard discharge of human waste anywhere except in a designated No Discharge Zone?

Yes, used it for nearly a decade. Wouldn't have lived aboard without it.

People complain of the cost, but in areas with no pump out boats, a good number of them paid as much in repairs going to/from pump out stations or hand wringing when the holding tank was full and the boat couldn't move.

Just remember that "clean marinas" supposedly won't let you use them in the marina, but all they can do is kick you out if the area isn't a no discharge zone so you aren't breaking the law as far as I can tell.

 

[HeadMistress]

The ElectroScan is the current version of the LectraSan...has been for about 10 years. It's an excellent device that uses electrical current to charge the ions in salt water to create hypochlorous acid (a type of chlorine)...which means that if you have a fresh water toilet or cruise in fresh water, you must have an installed source of salt to feed it.

Which is the reason why I recommend Raritan's PuraSan instead. It doesn't create chlorine, that's fed from cartridge, so it works equally well in fresh water and with fresh water toilets. Cartridges last about 800 flushes

Raritan ElectroScan Promo Sheet

Raritan PuraSan Promo Sheet

Both are legal in all waters where the discharge of TREATED sewage is legal. And although federal law requires the discharge must only have a maximum bacteria count of 1,000/100ml, both of these devices reduce it to less than 10. (Fwiw, federal law for swimming waters only requires a max of 200).

The discharge of treated waste is NOT legal in NDZs...You'll find a list of EPA designated NDZs here EPA NDZ list

--Peggie

 

[Nepidae]

Over 65' sanitation

I wasn't going to respond but as I read it seemed logical to add here.

When I was getting the boat ready for our Loop, which took 8yrs to do the Loop, with our fwd and aft heads I made some choices.

First, our boat has a 75gal holding tank and a Raritan Electra Scan.

The 2 heads had flush toilet and I put in Y-valves in both heads so the effluent could be directed to each facility.

The fwd head which had a flush toilet was converted to a composting toilet just incase a toilet Nazi decided our flush toilet was in violation of some federal, state or local ordinance.

The aft head, in the MSR, was kept intact with the Y-valve to either the holding tank or the Electra Scan. As an aside there is a direct overboard discharge but it isn't connected to any way to discharge.

This setup has proven to be adequate for any of the rules/regulations we encountered on our travel.

BTW, the Y-valves are Raritan which have locking capabilities which makes officials happy on potty checks.

Hope this helps.