One Head or Two for 45' or less Boats?

[Mako]

This is the classy way it's done in Doha-land. Yep, after 7 years, my girls still get grossed out just looking at those things. However, it is less gross than the Pardey cedar bucket!

 

[markpierce]

At my two "stateroom" dirt home, 2.5 bathrooms works well. On my one-stateroom boat, one is sufficient. I'd say if you need two staterooms on the boat, two heads are desirable.

 

[Imp]

The longest the head has been down is two hours. It’s been clogged seriously twice, both by guests. My bad for not rationing the t-paper.

Of course, if we are docked, crew & guests use the marina facilities. The #1 head rule on my boats has long been that if you didn't swallow it, you don't get to flush it. TP is for #1; baby wipes are more efficient for anything else. Aboard, both are disposed in a handy lined covered container. Ashore, where we are connected to a septic tank, tp is flushable; wipes are not, so have a civilized lined covered container in all bathrooms, as aboard. Both children & adults are trainable, kids perhaps more so because of the novelty.


I've never allowed anyone to answer nature's call overboard on one of my boats. Don't remember the exact study years ago (might have been gov't), but c. 50% of the men drowned from being washed overboard whose bodies were recovered were found with their zippers down. Have always thought a head on the aft deck would be a great safety/convenience feature.

 

[Jackhulse]

Most of my previous monohull sailboats has one head, or when I went to the Leopard 38 catamaran with separate staterooms in each hull, 2 heads were welcome, especially is we had guests. Now in the Endeavour Cat Trawler, 2 separate heads with showers are very welcome, both for convenience and backup if one fails.
Jack Hulse
New Orleans

 

[smitty477]

Of course, if we are docked, crew & guests use the marina facilities. The #1 head rule on my boats has long been that if you didn't swallow it, you don't get to flush it. TP is for #1; baby wipes are more efficient for anything else. Aboard, both are disposed in a handy lined covered container. Ashore, where we are connected to a septic tank, tp is flushable; wipes are not, so have a civilized lined covered container in all bathrooms, as aboard. Both children & adults are trainable, kids perhaps more so because of the novelty.


I've never allowed anyone to answer nature's call overboard on one of my boats. Don't remember the exact study years ago (might have been gov't), but c. 50% of the men drowned from being washed overboard whose bodies were recovered were found with their zippers down. Have always thought a head on the aft deck would be a great safety/convenience feature.

"The #1 head rule on my boats has long been that if you didn't swallow it, you don't get to flush it"
That simple rule worked very well for us for many years. Then a few years back we had guests on one leg of a trip where one of their teenage kids had eaten about 2 dozen cherries and swallowed the pits.
It was very handy to have the backup head on the balance of that trip.
YMMV

 

[OldDan1943]

I've never allowed anyone to answer nature's call overboard on one of my boats. Don't remember the exact study years ago (might have been gov't), but c. 50% of the men drowned from being washed overboard whose bodies were recovered were found with their zippers down. Have always thought a head on the aft deck would be a great safety/convenience feature.

Depending upon the age of the males, older men have a tendency not to worry about the position of their fly .... If it's important, someone will remind the men.

 

[psneeld]

I have been hearing the open fly story for years...I am not sure it's true...and if it is...it's a skiff/rowboat/canoe thing...not a trawler thing.


There are people who view the same risk at all levels... from barely discernible to catastrophic. ....


How head issues gain as much traction on TF just "clogs" my mind.

 

[Andrew Diligent]

Mt34 2cents worth

Our 33.5 single engine 86 Thai trawler originally sold with 2 heads and 1 holding tank under 40 gal, overboard discharge was the norm. When I redid the heads in our year 1 , 2010, I installed two holding tanks just under 40 gal each, new lines, heads, no overboard discharge.

My lovely wife and I cruise alone mainly, occasionally our son and his wife join us for a week. Never the less I’d highly reccomend 2 heads, the forward head is mainly for guests, but also for showers to reduce humidity.

I have done all of the repair and maintenance, repaired or rebuilt all systems, and have gotten frequently filthy in the process. Having a “utility head” for work in progress (again the forward head) makes it easier to return to civilization after hours in the bilge.

It’s a luxury not a requirement and well worth the space.

 

[Imp]

I have been hearing the open fly story for years...I am not sure it's true...and if it is...it's a skiff/rowboat/canoe thing...not a trawler thing.

Actually, it is a big boat thing, & it was a research article. Some of the data was gathered from incidents on commercial fishing boats. I clearly recall reading the article c. 40 years ago sitting at my desk when I was a federal scientist.

 

[Imp]

"The #1 head rule on my boats has long been that if you didn't swallow it, you don't get to flush it"
That simple rule worked very well for us for many years. Then a few years back we had guests on one leg of a trip where one of their teenage kids had eaten about 2 dozen cherries and swallowed the pits.
It was very handy to have the backup head on the balance of that trip.
YMMV

My sympathies. I have had 3 generations of teenage offspring (& their boyfriends), & though each batch seems to be ever smarter, I have long since learned that you cannot anticipate every stunt a teenage brain can manufacture.

 

[Imp]

I have done all of the repair and maintenance, repaired or rebuilt all systems, and have gotten frequently filthy in the process. Having a “utility head” for work in progress (again the forward head) makes it easier to return to civilization after hours in the bilge.

An inexpensive sunshower on deck is a wondrously efficious device, getting a body not only clean with warm water even when the air is cool, but keeping the belowdeck shower clean & dry. In several years of cruising our crew never once used the actual functioning shower belowdecks, saving the cleaning crew (moi) a lot of work.

 

[sunchaser]

So I'm looking at the website for the new Nordhavn 41. It has one head. My Cherubini 45 has one full and one half. While there are many 2 and 3 stateroom boats that sleep a dozen including 2 on the dining table, that need 2 full heads, how many do you need for a 1 or 2 staterooms forward boat? More may be better, but I keep viewing my master stateroom half head, and wonder how awesome a closet I could make out of it. It's not going to happen, but I'm curious what you think about more storage or more head.

Ted

Back to Ted's first post. The elephant in the room is Nordhavn's move to a clean sheet 41. Not just a stretched, bigger, more costly and systems complexity design but an answer to an oft asked question. Who is building a suitably sized blue water capable vessel with a balance sheet and reputation to back it up?

With a Beta 85 HP diesel, wet exhaust, one stateroom option, one head and an impressive S/D ratio this will be an interesting new model. Kudos to Nordhavn for continuing to stay ahead of the curve.

 

[CapeWhaler]

Interesting views. IMO mainly depends on how many guests are usually carried but as a general rule, my personal view is that two (or more) heads on a boat under 40' is a waste of space - of which there is never enough of, especially for longer cruising.

Some years ago I bought an old Islander Motorsailer (39') in need of rehab. The overall layout needed 'adjustment' but the biggest thing was the presence of two rather spacious heads. Since the boat had a separate aft cabin, I understand the designer's thinking but for my needs one smaller head would have been more than adequate - even with occasional guests aboard.

Wife's worsening arthritis and the number of levels and ladders on the Islander sent us in another direction: the Pilgrim 40 we now enjoy. Boat has one adequate head/shower on the living level and a small head in the owner's cabin forward and below - which I'm looking at removing for additional storage.
Joe

 

[nemier]

So I'm looking at the website for the new Nordhavn 41. It has one head. My Cherubini 45 has one full and one half. While there are many 2 and 3 stateroom boats that sleep a dozen including 2 on the dining table, that need 2 full heads, how many do you need for a 1 or 2 staterooms forward boat? More may be better, but I keep viewing my master stateroom half head, and wonder how awesome a closet I could make out of it. It's not going to happen, but I'm curious what you think about more storage or more head.

Ted

Hi Ted,

INFINITY has 4 staterooms and 4 heads! I can't even imagine a life without INFINITY, but if that ever happens, I shall be going 'simple' next time and that means one head. However, as long as my wife is boating with me , it will be 2 heads at least.

Like you, I am also looking at the N41. But I look at this vessel as my 'retirement' boat where I would be 95% single-handing. I would always carry spares, and have the knowledge to troubleshoot & repair. So the single head would always be my first choice in that situation.

 

[Spinner]

Two staterooms, two full heads with walk-in showers! Mostly it’s just me onboard, but I love having guests and having them be really comfortable....

In my case, two vacuflush heads, each with its own vacuum apparatus. And yes, I carry spares....

 

[BruceK]

Surely the old problem solving rule "Two heads are better than one" applies.

 

[BigJimB]

It is interesting to compare to earth dwellings. It would be difficult to imagine a 500 sf apartment with two bathrooms but many 40'-50' boats have two heads. People are shy about using the head, personally I feel that adults should recognize that everybody poops. Having a well maintained head with adequate spares to keep thing running is my preference but I can understand others wanting some privacy and reserve the reserve capacity of a second head. Every boat is a compromise and personal values are important to consider.

My 43' has over 900 sf with a single head shared by the master and guest sr's and a day head in the cockpit. At 61 years and up frequently how many times would you want to get dressed to go down the hall?


The comparison to closet space is interesting. Maybe I'll loose the clothes storage and install a urinal. The Admiral would love that. Better I streak to the cockpit head at 3am.

 

[Bryant]

1 head or 2

I think some people are missing the point. If you have one head, when you both wake up and have to go, then one waits. If you cruise or day cruise with friends, children or grandkids then add that to the mix. Two heads are more maintenance, expense, headache etc but giving your partner their own head, shower and sink pays beaucoup dividends in so many ways. To each his own but having a boat with two heads has been a blessing, and I’ve been boating for 50 years.

 

[Lepke]

It's not the length of the boat that determines the number of heads, but the number and timing of the butts.

 

[Irish Rambler]

We bought an ex hire-boat which had 3 heads.
We've one en suite in our double cabin.
The second is an en-suite for a rear cabin with 2 single beds with access from the corridor and is used as a day toilet.
The other rear cabin has been converted to an office/cum bathroom, the en-suite which was fitted for that cabin has now been stripped out and a 4kg Candy washing machine installed, we used the old shower mixer unit to regulate the water feed temperature to the washing machine.
The system works fine as we have our own private facility en suite for ourselves and visitors can use the other one.

 

[OldDan1943]

34/36 American Tug. 1 head. 1 door to the SR, 1 door to allow it to be used as a day head or if company is sleeping in the salon. 2 heads would be nice but, a 2nd SR would be nicer.

 

[FF]

Two heads is great for cruising, one with direct sea discharge , one hooked to some legal type holding setup.

 

[rslifkin]

2 heads on my 38 footer. 1 in the forward stateroom with a very small shower, 1 in the aft stateroom with a very small tub (which is really just a much better shower).

Especially during the day, the forward gets used far more, but it's nice to not have the long walk at night. Plus, I like redundancy, so it's nice knowing that if something happens to 1 of them it's an "I need to fix that" situation and not an emergency.

 

[Dani-lu]

Boat heads break, period. Generally due to guests not adhering to the captain’s head rules, but whatever the reason, having a redundant head has saved many voyages.