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Old 01-07-2016, 07:09 PM   #1
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New heating system ?

Need to install a heating system in my 41 Roughwater, it currently has no heat but electric at the dock. Old owner left a propane Force 10 uninstalled with the boat. Not going to use that. I have plenty of diesel so thinking diesel forced air. I'm looking at the Wallas 40 DT and the Webasto AT 55. The price's are close, the Walles has 2 x 4" duct's and is better on fuel and amp draw. I'm leaning toward the Wallas, but would like some input.
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Old 01-07-2016, 07:26 PM   #2
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Wallas 40 but remember the single unit only puts out about 15000BTUs which for a 40 foot or so boat is probably only good into the 30 degree range...lots of wind or colder and you will need more BTUs unless you are more sailboat like than powerboat.

But GREAT units.
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Old 01-07-2016, 07:34 PM   #3
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When we looked at Wallas for our PT38 Sedan the Canadian Distributor told us we would need two Wallas DT40 to heat the boat in the winter as the max output was 13,600 Btu's for the diesel unit.
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Old 01-07-2016, 07:39 PM   #4
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I would look at the ITR H2Plus...and depending on how you install it, you get hot water too.
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:18 PM   #5
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Hurricane!
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ Borman View Post
Need to install a heating system in my 41 Roughwater, it currently has no heat but electric at the dock. Old owner left a propane Force 10 uninstalled with the boat. Not going to use that. I have plenty of diesel so thinking diesel forced air. I'm looking at the Wallas 40 DT and the Webasto AT 55. The price's are close, the Walles has 2 x 4" duct's and is better on fuel and amp draw. I'm leaning toward the Wallas, but would like some input.
If I am correct, the 41 Roughwater has an aft cabin. While cool is sometimes a better sleeping temp the need for heat aft would seem desirable.
We have the DT 30 in our 27 foot boat which if view as a boat that adding an aft cabin length to would seem to be close to what a 42 Roughwater would appear. Having said that, the DT 30 keeps our forward bunk area and the main cabin/head at a very contented temperature as set by demand. One would think that using a DT40 with perhaps a small fan located in the pilot house to direct the rising heat from the saloon/galley area at to the aft cabin would serve. During the day or non use, the aft cabin would be subject to moving atmosphere by osmosis with out the fan being engaged. Just a thought as the Wallas products are super quite, super fuel burn cheap and the units are trouble free due to simplicity.
We replaced the German truck heater due to parts availablitlty and reading of recorded maintenance issues. Vancouver B.C. was the only dealer with remaining parts, so we bailed for the Wallas. Plus and a big plus, is the dealer assistance if required. The two brothers at Sure Marine on Westlake, Seattle are outstanding in giving clear assistance if you are going to install yourself. Outstanding!

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Old 01-07-2016, 09:55 PM   #7
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Webasto hydronic would be my choice instead of ducted forced air.
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Old 01-08-2016, 05:37 AM   #8
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Hydronic is always the best way to go for a live aboard as it keeps the boat at a more even temperature and does not sound like a vacuum is running somewhere on board.

The choice then becomes how to spread the heat.

On a new build, base board units would work best with the least amount of power required to circulate the water.

Small box heaters , or "toe Kick" units can be had in 12v or 120v but have to be fed electric , although this can be a plus as Zone control is then easy.

Installation takes longer with hydronic , but its easy to live with.

Having 23 years of living aboard one big problem comes when there is a big storm and power goes out.

A Marina is not high on anyones list so you might need too operate a week or so with no power.

The Hurricane units size the components to the vessels size so might have the lowest draw over the dead power days.

Having been a dealer for the bus/ truck heaters , for my own boats I use a Dickinson heater with a water coil or a Dickinson Pacific range , with a gravity fuel tank.

This allows 24/7 5 month service , no electric required.

You may not see a foot of ice or -17F in your location , but its nice to be able to ignore the extremes.
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Old 01-08-2016, 08:58 AM   #9
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There is always the discussion of hydronic vs ducted air vs stand alone burner. At the risk of stirring up lots of opinionated discussions, in my opinon:

Hydronic heats a mass of water, hoses and pipes and creates a more even heat but can be slow to warm up a cold boat.

Ducted air is nearly instant heat. But the fluctuations in temp will be noticeable as the system cycles. A Roughwater will have lots of cold air leaks. You can draw in some outside air to heat which reduces relative humidity in the boat.

Stand alone burner. Bullet proof simple. Light it and it makes heat. No electricity required. But you'll probably need two, maybe 3 for a Roughwater. They take a fair bit of space for the burner and exhaust.

Sure Marine and Scan Marine in Seattle have excellent web sites full of info and both dealers are very helpful in planning and building your system.

Sizing your system is important. If memory serves from reading their web sites a while back you'll want a 40 - 45,000 BTU system. One way to "guesstimate" your needs for your personal comfort is to use space heaters. If your AC system will handle it. You may need to steal power from other slips. You might have to take it one cabin at a time. The Roughwater's big main cabin with the expansive windows will the the biggest demand. Experiment to find out what it takes then use an online calculator to convert watts to BTU.

In my experience heating a boat on a mild PNW winter day in the mid 40s and warmer is no big deal. Almost anything will work. Once you drop towards the 30's and lower it becomes increasingly more difficult. If you are a live aboard size the system for the colder days.

And as always, choose a system for which you can get good service in your home port.
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Old 01-08-2016, 09:51 AM   #10
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Of note though.... Wallas furnaces run constantly, adjusting output but never shutting down so fluctuations aren't noticeable.

BTU requirements are debatable depending on use of the boat. With light winds, both my Sportfish that was all windows and my double cabin trawler would be quite comfy into the 30s with only 16,000 BTUs. Add wind and the requirement rises rapidly.

At anchor and no guests...the Wallas 40 heats the main cabin, aft head and stateroom nicely and is silent except for the airflow that is adjustable to a point.


No argument about drip type heaters...just valuable wall/floor space is gobbled up (thus the oven variety would interest many instead) and they do need some form of heat circulation unless multiple ones are used.

Each system is nice in it's own ways...one system or a combo might suit one's needs best.
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Old 01-08-2016, 10:41 AM   #11
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This looks like its going to take more investigating as to the right system. I was steering way from hydronic because it looked very complicated to install. But it seems they come in higher BTU outputs and the hot water would be nice on the hook. However what's the power draw going to be running a pump and multiple fans?
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Old 01-08-2016, 11:08 AM   #12
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I removed all fans and replaced almost all heaters with radiators. Quiet. Actually, on the one bus heater that works, I installed a 24v fan, which runs quietly in my 12v system.

Rats! Sorry about the squint photo.
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Old 01-08-2016, 11:12 AM   #13
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If you have a generator, your heating could be a combination of electric and a forced air unit. As someone mentioned already, a forced air unit will be sufficient on most PNW days. On those colder days you could use both.
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Old 01-08-2016, 11:49 AM   #14
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I have a 8kw gen, but started looking at the hydronic's more closely and like the options it gives you. heat, hot water, and possibly preheating the motor. And the radiator instead of fan units would be less amp draw, but requires wall space, something I do not have a lot of. I need to start thinking out side of the box.
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Old 01-08-2016, 04:00 PM   #15
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We have the Wallas furnaces and really like them.

They are very quiet and adjust the heat output vs the on off style of many furnaces.

As someone that has used both hydronic and forced air furnaces, a few of each... When it came time to our boat we chose forced air, with fresh air ventilation.
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Old 01-09-2016, 12:26 PM   #16
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Wow looking into hydronic nice but it going to blow my budget. I could install 2 x 40dt wallas's for less. Im thinking a 40 dt with careful zone controlling or a 40 and a smaller unit for the aft cabin.
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Old 01-09-2016, 12:37 PM   #17
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For a 41 footer...a 40dt and 30dt should be plenty. I have just a 40 wuth an outlet in the main cabin near the helm...then another run into the aft head and cabin.

Down into the 30s with little wind, all spaces are 68 degrees or above....adjusting the variable vents may take a bit to get it where you want and then....at nigh...more heat below may be in order but a simple butterfly valve is all you adjust if the unit is already on may heat.

With wind...the additionsal 30 heating the vee berth area, forward head and down galley would be perfect and the escaping heat to the saloon would be plenty.

One tip with the Wallas furnaces..... before shutting down...run on high for 10 minutes or so if you have only had it on low or medium for a length of time. The igniter and more importantly the thermocouple can soot up a bit and cause hard starting. For 2 years I suffered till the techs and I figured it out. Not a problem since.
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Old 01-09-2016, 05:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ Borman View Post
Need to install a heating system in my 41 Roughwater, it currently has no heat but electric at the dock. Old owner left a propane Force 10 uninstalled with the boat. Not going to use that. I have plenty of diesel so thinking diesel forced air. I'm looking at the Wallas 40 DT and the Webasto AT 55. The price's are close, the Walles has 2 x 4" duct's and is better on fuel and amp draw. I'm leaning toward the Wallas, but would like some input.
I like the Wallas because not only it it more fuel efficient, it is much quieter.
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Old 01-10-2016, 07:00 AM   #19
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"One tip with the Wallas furnaces..... before shutting down...run on high for 10 minutes or so if you have only had it on low or medium for a length of time. The igniter and more importantly the thermocouple can soot up a bit and cause hard starting. For 2 years I suffered till the techs and I figured it out. Not a problem since."

Back in the day the ESPAR folks would send a tech , at great expense to fix hard start problems.

His first "cure" was to remove the output duct and use a hunk of plywood to overheat the unit till the safety shut it down , 3 times or so.

IF the install was proper (wired for a 35A load during start) it seemed to cure many complaints.

A tank for kerosene was a better cure was a more reliable cure fore livaboards..
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Old 07-26-2016, 03:44 PM   #20
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Diesel Fireplace

New poster here, I have been a live aboard for 3 winters in Southern New England and use a Diesel fireplace in my 41' President trawler.
Toyotomi Laser 60At.
It burns the low sulphur diesel that we all use, it is vented and the exhaust is tube in tube and cool to the touch as it leaves my teak walls and fiberglass hull. Vented out the side it works incredible. It has a timer with temperature settings so it is cool when we sleep but ramps up before we awake. Highly recommend it.
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