Nature's Head
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
toocoys
Guru
My fear is tripping down the transom steps while carrying 7 gallons of urine, or a bag of composted excrement.
Rain Dog
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Why would you be carrying 7 gallons of urine?
I think you are probably just being a smart a#&, but 7 seems so specific.......
toocoys
Guru
Well I don't know the exact amount that they carry, but friends of ours have a composting head and they have to empty the container that the liquids go in, and then remove the container that the solids are in.
Rain Dog
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Got it.
That is indeed the liability of a marine head unless you pump directly overboard. Sooner or later, you have to empty it
Trying to use poorly maintained pump-out facilities to use suction to empty 10's of gallons of urine mixed with solids and carrying urine and solids off the boat separately both suck really bad.
toocoys
Guru
Got it.
That is indeed the liability of a marine head unless you pump directly overboard. Sooner or later, you have to empty it
Trying to use poorly maintained pump-out facilities to use suction to empty 10's of gallons of urine mixed with solids and carrying urine and solids off the boat separately both suck really bad.
We use a pump out service that comes weekly, but we are tied to the dock most of the time.
HopCar
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75 cans of beer.
cardude01
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The urine jug holds 2.2 gallons. That’s less than 18lbs when full. We are not talking about huge weight here.
As far as how to get it out, you raise the toilet solids container lid, pull out the bottle, slide the second empty bottle in. It takes about 30 seconds. And, when you open the solids container it doesn’t smell, so again, it’s not a big operation.
If I’m at the dock I walk the urine bottle up to the marina bathroom in one of those black cloth grocery bags because some people may think carrying urine around looks strange. If I’m out at anchor I dump that sucker behind the boat, or sometimes put it in my Super Soaker so I can shoot it at jets skiers or other annoying things.
As far as how to get it out, you raise the toilet solids container lid, pull out the bottle, slide the second empty bottle in. It takes about 30 seconds. And, when you open the solids container it doesn’t smell, so again, it’s not a big operation.
If I’m at the dock I walk the urine bottle up to the marina bathroom in one of those black cloth grocery bags because some people may think carrying urine around looks strange. If I’m out at anchor I dump that sucker behind the boat, or sometimes put it in my Super Soaker so I can shoot it at jets skiers or other annoying things.
AdmiralS
Senior Member
When not living on the boat we live in a tiny house trailer. We have the Separett Villa.
I do not sugar coat it for our guests when they inquire about the mechanics. It always comes up during a meal as well.
Rule #1 - Everyone must sit. No exceptions.
Rule #2 - If it didn't come out of you, it doesn't go in the toilet
Rule #3 - Using the provided watering can next to the toilet, pour in about 1 cups worth of water into the front urine section when your business is concluded
User lifts lid, there is a toilet seat with a trap door. User sits, trap door opens, deposit is made. No bucket freak show to be seen. The urine is diverted into a gray water holding tank, and # 2 goes in the bucket with peat moss.
There is 0 smell, and it works absolutely great. It gets "emptied" every 4-6 weeks for 2 people with regular use.
That said, I would never in 100 years recommend this apparatus for the marine environment!
Separett Villa urine diverting toilet
I do not sugar coat it for our guests when they inquire about the mechanics. It always comes up during a meal as well.
Rule #1 - Everyone must sit. No exceptions.
Rule #2 - If it didn't come out of you, it doesn't go in the toilet
Rule #3 - Using the provided watering can next to the toilet, pour in about 1 cups worth of water into the front urine section when your business is concluded
User lifts lid, there is a toilet seat with a trap door. User sits, trap door opens, deposit is made. No bucket freak show to be seen. The urine is diverted into a gray water holding tank, and # 2 goes in the bucket with peat moss.
There is 0 smell, and it works absolutely great. It gets "emptied" every 4-6 weeks for 2 people with regular use.
That said, I would never in 100 years recommend this apparatus for the marine environment!
Separett Villa urine diverting toilet
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Urine and water weigh 8.33 lbs/gallon... 2 six packs of beer weigh 9 lbs exclusive of the weight of the bottles or cans ... and you're worried about carrying a 7 lb urine jug off the boat???
Well...if you've drunk both six packs, maybe you shouldn't.
--Peggie
Well...if you've drunk both six packs, maybe you shouldn't.
--Peggie
MurrayM
Guru
The automatic "swing door" and bucket spinning of the Separett is pretty cool.
On the website they suggest using no peat or coconut coir at all...just poop and toilet paper go into the toilet, then the fan dries it out. This is counterintuitive.
Anybody have a small dog? Ever notice how if it poops during the night and has time to dry out, you don't smell it in the morning? The screened fan must work on the same principle and dry things out fairly quickly.
On the website they suggest using no peat or coconut coir at all...just poop and toilet paper go into the toilet, then the fan dries it out. This is counterintuitive.
Anybody have a small dog? Ever notice how if it poops during the night and has time to dry out, you don't smell it in the morning? The screened fan must work on the same principle and dry things out fairly quickly.
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BruceK
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FWIW, for a 24 hour urine collection for analysis,they give you a 2 liter bottle. I doubt you are expected to "process" a slab (24 bottles/cans) for the test.
FF
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The only hassle we found in 1/2 decade of use is convincing males their aim is too poor , and they must sit for the unit to function.
Since pampers get dumped into a dumpster daily , there should be no problem with a bag of mulch every couple of weeks.
Since pampers get dumped into a dumpster daily , there should be no problem with a bag of mulch every couple of weeks.
Carl Martin
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When picking a composting head I think the Air Head, Nature's Head & C-Head will all work. I'd go with the one that fits your space the best. The C-Head fit our boat best & it's worked great for us. Regarding resale, I believe the highest price paid for a Scout 30 recently was for one that had a C-Head installed. Of course it's hard to extract the contributory value of the head in a sale but it's pretty clear that it didn't hurt the boat's value.
Rain Dog
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Why not?
The Villa was my initial choice for our new boat, but it was too big to fit well in the space.
David Falls
Member
Have had NH’s in our trawler for 4 years. No smell, no problems. 2 adults 3 to 4 weeks before change. Liquid bucket 2 days between emptying. Absolutely great customer service.
DBA
Newbie
We have had a Nature's Head in our Pilgrim 40 going on three years now. It has been terrific. With just the two of us, the compost (organic peat moss) lasts 6 months. And even then, when I change out the peat moss, it looks and smells like fresh peat moss, with just bits of white in it from the disolved toilet paper.
I have it vented out through a solar fan/vent up through the roof outletting on the upper deck. It's important to have a good vent location. I would like to put another one in the lower front stateroom head, but I don't have a good place to vent it. The venting is important for the bacteria to work decomposing the the compost.
As said in the other posts, you do need to instruct guests on how to use it. You can't mix urine into the compost, which means it's best to have men sit instead of stand to pee. The bottle is plenty large to last three to four days for the two of us.
It's been ideal, as the original holding tank on the Pilgrim is small. I'd highly recommend it, as long as you have a good place for the vent hose.
I have it vented out through a solar fan/vent up through the roof outletting on the upper deck. It's important to have a good vent location. I would like to put another one in the lower front stateroom head, but I don't have a good place to vent it. The venting is important for the bacteria to work decomposing the the compost.
As said in the other posts, you do need to instruct guests on how to use it. You can't mix urine into the compost, which means it's best to have men sit instead of stand to pee. The bottle is plenty large to last three to four days for the two of us.
It's been ideal, as the original holding tank on the Pilgrim is small. I'd highly recommend it, as long as you have a good place for the vent hose.
We installed a C-Head...
Yes, we removed the head and holding tank on our Albin 25 and installed a C-Head composting toilet (comparable to a Nature’s Head but less expensive).
We had no issues with it at all! I will point out that while we would live onboard for several months at a time, we were not on the hook for more than three or four days at once, so we never truly ‘composted’ our solid waste as we had frequent access to disposal sites.
As you know, solid and liquid wastes must be kept separate. The C-Head is designed to use standard 1 gal milk jugs to collect the liquid waste. We used a fabric bag to carry the jugs into the bathrooms of wherever we stopped and emptied it in the toilet. Not as distasteful a task as it sounds. Our output was about 1 gal/day for 2 of us. You are only limited by the # of jugs you can store onboard.
We lined the solid waste section with a large trash bag filled with cedar shavings (available in store pet section). Other people use different mediums; find one you like. As we weren’t truly composting, we did not use the turn handle. Dry, no odor unless you peed in it by mistake��. Swapped it out every 3-4 days, disposed of it in any dumpster or trash. Yes, perfectly legal. After all, diapers and ostomy supplies are disposed of the same way. The head already had a fan, but rarely used it. More often than not, just opened the port windiw.
Hope this helps!
Yes, we removed the head and holding tank on our Albin 25 and installed a C-Head composting toilet (comparable to a Nature’s Head but less expensive).
We had no issues with it at all! I will point out that while we would live onboard for several months at a time, we were not on the hook for more than three or four days at once, so we never truly ‘composted’ our solid waste as we had frequent access to disposal sites.
As you know, solid and liquid wastes must be kept separate. The C-Head is designed to use standard 1 gal milk jugs to collect the liquid waste. We used a fabric bag to carry the jugs into the bathrooms of wherever we stopped and emptied it in the toilet. Not as distasteful a task as it sounds. Our output was about 1 gal/day for 2 of us. You are only limited by the # of jugs you can store onboard.
We lined the solid waste section with a large trash bag filled with cedar shavings (available in store pet section). Other people use different mediums; find one you like. As we weren’t truly composting, we did not use the turn handle. Dry, no odor unless you peed in it by mistake��. Swapped it out every 3-4 days, disposed of it in any dumpster or trash. Yes, perfectly legal. After all, diapers and ostomy supplies are disposed of the same way. The head already had a fan, but rarely used it. More often than not, just opened the port windiw.
Hope this helps!
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Nepidae
Senior Member
We have a 43 Trawler. We are on the Loop.
I had done a fair amount of research into composting toilets due to the plethora of areas we were going to be going thru which included many NDZ. Lake Champlain itself is 1 big NDZ.
After that research I removed the toilet in our forward head and replaced it with an Air Head, again after reviewing the major choices.
With all the guffaws and wisecracks, hold on to your asses as with all of the algae blooms occurring, who do you think will get the brunt of the kickback? It won't be the farmers, landscapers or others using fertilizers, pesticides, manure or other items that are running of into the rivers, lakes and streams, it will be the boater with his toilets streaming crap into the water. Wait & see.
The result will be no overboard discharges. It will be no holding tanks that can be discharged into the water. It will be nothing short of a plastic bag which will have 'stations' at marinas where specific dumpster like collection bins are.
A possible alternative could be a composting toilet.
We still have a raw water toilet in our aft head which is connected to a 2 way valve. One setting will direct the effluent to our 75g holding tank. The 2nd setting will direct it to a Raritan Type 1 MSD which treats and discharges overboard. We have the valve 'locked' in the holding tank position.
In my research there were locations that would require any holes in the hull which have an upstream source of effluent would need to be plugged. Fortunately, most of those holes are below the waterline, so I don't know how they would ever check, UNLESS, they board you and check your plumbing, which is why I have my 2 way locked. No use debating the boarding. By the time you might win in court, you own more on storage than you paid for the boat.
Dealing with effluent is a crappy job, pun intended, as there are NO laws, rules or regulations which apply to all municipalities, parishes, counties, state or federal areas which are all the same. On top of that, states were given, as I understand it, the right to establish NDZ (No Discharge Zones) which have rules which vary state to state as well.
Due to the above, I don't believe that I lowered my resale value, which I don't count on anyway as my mate has orders to perform a Viking funeral for me at the appropriate time, because we have a composting toilet. We may have actually raised it as the new owner, of the ashes, wouldn't have to do the job themselves of putting in a composting toilet.
But all that said, I will probably put in a new toilet in the aft head and replace it with a Raritan toilet which uses raw water to flush. Having the 3 options provides for almost all contingencies.
As I said, we put in an Air Head, they are all doing the same job, but after talking with the owner and with the support he offered, we thought Air Head was the best choice for us, and part of the installation was to provide for a fan to move air through the 'system'. Our forward head is located athwart ship from the galley with the wiring closet. It was an easy setup to pass the air hose through the wiring closet and out the side of the deckhouse right under the shore power receptacles.
BTW, we have a similar set of rules for our guests as well; Rule #1 - Everyone must sit. No exceptions. Rule #2 - If it didn't come out of you, it doesn't go in the toilet. BTW, these rules are for both heads should a guest use our aft head.
My mate is who wanted the composting toilet, so our deal was I put it in and she takes it out. I think that the urine bottle isn't too heavy that she has trouble carrying it. AAMOF, at times she has carried 2 at 1 time.
An interesting additional thought to consider. I had read that in some areas you could pee over the side (be careful about doing this in a marina & USCG records show a good number of those who drowned, had their fly open, food for thought) but you can't dump a bucket of pee over the side. We bought 2 pee bottles when we bought the unit.
In closing I saw that the Head Mistress has opined some of her thoughts. Listen to her, she knows this area, VERY well and is providing information you should be listening to. Thanks Peggy.
I had done a fair amount of research into composting toilets due to the plethora of areas we were going to be going thru which included many NDZ. Lake Champlain itself is 1 big NDZ.
After that research I removed the toilet in our forward head and replaced it with an Air Head, again after reviewing the major choices.
With all the guffaws and wisecracks, hold on to your asses as with all of the algae blooms occurring, who do you think will get the brunt of the kickback? It won't be the farmers, landscapers or others using fertilizers, pesticides, manure or other items that are running of into the rivers, lakes and streams, it will be the boater with his toilets streaming crap into the water. Wait & see.
The result will be no overboard discharges. It will be no holding tanks that can be discharged into the water. It will be nothing short of a plastic bag which will have 'stations' at marinas where specific dumpster like collection bins are.
A possible alternative could be a composting toilet.
We still have a raw water toilet in our aft head which is connected to a 2 way valve. One setting will direct the effluent to our 75g holding tank. The 2nd setting will direct it to a Raritan Type 1 MSD which treats and discharges overboard. We have the valve 'locked' in the holding tank position.
In my research there were locations that would require any holes in the hull which have an upstream source of effluent would need to be plugged. Fortunately, most of those holes are below the waterline, so I don't know how they would ever check, UNLESS, they board you and check your plumbing, which is why I have my 2 way locked. No use debating the boarding. By the time you might win in court, you own more on storage than you paid for the boat.
Dealing with effluent is a crappy job, pun intended, as there are NO laws, rules or regulations which apply to all municipalities, parishes, counties, state or federal areas which are all the same. On top of that, states were given, as I understand it, the right to establish NDZ (No Discharge Zones) which have rules which vary state to state as well.
Due to the above, I don't believe that I lowered my resale value, which I don't count on anyway as my mate has orders to perform a Viking funeral for me at the appropriate time, because we have a composting toilet. We may have actually raised it as the new owner, of the ashes, wouldn't have to do the job themselves of putting in a composting toilet.
But all that said, I will probably put in a new toilet in the aft head and replace it with a Raritan toilet which uses raw water to flush. Having the 3 options provides for almost all contingencies.
As I said, we put in an Air Head, they are all doing the same job, but after talking with the owner and with the support he offered, we thought Air Head was the best choice for us, and part of the installation was to provide for a fan to move air through the 'system'. Our forward head is located athwart ship from the galley with the wiring closet. It was an easy setup to pass the air hose through the wiring closet and out the side of the deckhouse right under the shore power receptacles.
BTW, we have a similar set of rules for our guests as well; Rule #1 - Everyone must sit. No exceptions. Rule #2 - If it didn't come out of you, it doesn't go in the toilet. BTW, these rules are for both heads should a guest use our aft head.
My mate is who wanted the composting toilet, so our deal was I put it in and she takes it out. I think that the urine bottle isn't too heavy that she has trouble carrying it. AAMOF, at times she has carried 2 at 1 time.
An interesting additional thought to consider. I had read that in some areas you could pee over the side (be careful about doing this in a marina & USCG records show a good number of those who drowned, had their fly open, food for thought) but you can't dump a bucket of pee over the side. We bought 2 pee bottles when we bought the unit.
In closing I saw that the Head Mistress has opined some of her thoughts. Listen to her, she knows this area, VERY well and is providing information you should be listening to. Thanks Peggy.
FF
Guru
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"so we never truly ‘composted’ our solid waste as we had frequent access to disposal sites."
WHY?
The units do fine at composting and once a month seems better than every 4 days!
************
"so I don't know how they would ever check, UNLESS, they board you and check your plumbing,"
The simplest check is they dump some coloring in your head and have you pump it 1/2 dozen ties.
WHY?
The units do fine at composting and once a month seems better than every 4 days!
************
"so I don't know how they would ever check, UNLESS, they board you and check your plumbing,"
The simplest check is they dump some coloring in your head and have you pump it 1/2 dozen ties.
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Southx10
Veteran Member
We went to a composter about 18 months ago. We have 2 heads onboard, the forward is a traditional marine head for guests or sickness, the aft is a C-head which we love. The c-head is of traditional height and appearance so you don't need a step stool to use. The c-head has an option of a urine diverter which amounts to a funnel and hose. I use this to run urine via a pump to the holding tank. We can either pump the HT when allowed or get a pump out. This keeps us from handling a urine bottle. There is nothing that comes out of a human that smells good. NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK. We don't have a vent and there is NO odor. The only thing that will cause odor is getting liquids into the solids. Gentlemen be seated and ladies it is now you who needs to learn to aim. For illness you will just have to change more often. We use coconut coir for the medium as it is simple to store, no inherent odor. A 10 pound block is 12"x12"x4" and lasts 2 adults 7 to 9 months. I will probably change out the forward head this spring.
We are full time liveaboards.
Good luck
We are full time liveaboards.
Good luck
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Rain Dog
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What pump did you use? Has it been trouble free?
I am contemplating a similar system but have been unsure what pump would be best for urine.
Southx10
Veteran Member
Rain dog
Can't get to it right now but it is a 12v harsh chemical impeller pump. Urine is pretty harsh but no problems in 18 months. My wife puts white vinegar is a couple times a week and we regularly flush with warm water.
Can't get to it right now but it is a 12v harsh chemical impeller pump. Urine is pretty harsh but no problems in 18 months. My wife puts white vinegar is a couple times a week and we regularly flush with warm water.
Sunset
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Simple question, and one that I have never seen addressed despite reading every toilet thread I could see:
It has been some time since my solids have been reliably solid. I take it therefor that I should avoid composting toilets?
Sorry if this is TMI . .
It has been some time since my solids have been reliably solid. I take it therefor that I should avoid composting toilets?
Sorry if this is TMI . .
Rain Dog
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This is the thread for TMI
Narture's Head and others are desiccating heads. To work properly, the solids need to completely dry out between uses. So the question is can you still accomplish this using just the media and the fan? If you are talking about "soft" feces or slightly moist, I think you will be able to keep the solids bin dry without too much problem. You may have to use more media than normal, so may be emptying the solids bin more often than advertised.
If you are talking about true liquids, I think a desiccating head may not be for you.
MurrayM
Guru
From what I’ve read, you may want to start with adding a bit less water to the coconut coir brick for a drier mix, then add a dusting of dry coir once in a while. Might have to empty it a bit more frequently as well.
Oats and flax seeds are my internal enemies
Southx10
Veteran Member
Humans ARE NOT SMALL DOGS. You do that and you will have a smelly mess you won't believe.......
Southx10
Veteran Member
My suggestion is to follow the directions that come with the unit. The manufacturer does not want you to fail. Your bad mouthing their product is not good for business.
Once you get used to it you then have enough kowledge to experiment. Don't set yourself up for failure these guys know how their systems work
Kids M/F, macho men and women that don't know where body parts are located will be your biggest enemy.
Once you get used to it you then have enough kowledge to experiment. Don't set yourself up for failure these guys know how their systems work
Kids M/F, macho men and women that don't know where body parts are located will be your biggest enemy.
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