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Old 11-12-2018, 09:41 PM   #81
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That's the beauty of having a properly designed and operating system, Simi! You seem to have a very balanced and capable system. Unfortunately, the rest of us have to make compromises to stay within the electron budget.

Thank God we're not sailors! They're the worst when it comes to consuming electrons! I felt guilty using an electric razor one morning when aboard visiting my blowboat friend.

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Old 11-14-2018, 02:18 PM   #82
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My comment was more about my amazement that people seem resigned to put up with inadequate battery banks and inverters while seemingly not blinking an eye at buying some new marine electronics or the latest IPhone or getting endless layers of varnish done.

As a % of boat ownership (boat, berth, maintenance, insurance, fuel) a decent inverter and battery bank is pretty small, especially when taking into account the savings using domestic gear over 12v and the increased comfort/live ability levels that gear provides.
Even ours, to run all we run only cost $6k in total (batteries and inverter charger
If we had zero solar it would probably be fully charged on 2 hour of genset a day.

We never had our system designed as such, I just used online calculators for an idea of what was needed and went bigger.
It seemed to be only hundreds of dollars between a barely adequate inverter and an oversized one.
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:47 PM   #83
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Yea I agree, go one step bigger.
I have 3 4D (200 amp) house batteries and a 1500 inverter. I have no room for an additional 4D. IF I put in a larger inverter, I'd drain the house batteries faster. That presents another situation. LOL
This why I stress "load management". First thing I shut off is the hot water heater when I use the oven and a couple of electric burners. That usually cures the problem.
I guess I could buy a bigger boat so I can have more house batteries and a larger inverter. That presents a number of other problems that I choose not to tackle at my age of 75.
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Old 11-14-2018, 04:39 PM   #84
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Great thread with lots of good info. We replaced our old GE fridge with a Summit CP-961 semi-frost free about a year ago, and love it. We have a 660 Ah house bank and Magnum 3500 inverter. No SOC meter, but when we go to bed the bank shows 12.4V on the panel (fridge, anchor light, 2 iPhones and a couple of head flushes overnight). When we get up, coffee is already made, we toast bagels, and microwave the Admiral’s coffee (she likes scalding coffee)...the bank still reads 12.4V. With nothing but the fridge on, the draw is 11A, and it hardly ever seems to be running.
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Old 05-04-2019, 05:47 AM   #85
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Not for those of us that turn off our inverters when anchored for the night.

No problem turning off the inverter at night if you freeze two Qt. plastic bottles filled 80% with very salty water (takes several days to completely freeze) and leave one in the freezer and put the other in the fridge each night.
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Old 05-04-2019, 03:36 PM   #86
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Ted,
Did you ever come up with Mod 2 of the door latch?
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Old 05-04-2019, 05:13 PM   #87
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Ted,
Did you ever come up with Mod 2 of the door latch?
V 2.0 wasn't an improvement.
I've decided to take a totally out of character approach. Until the door opens underway, I'm not going to do anything. I still have V 1.0 which would suffice if I choose to head out in stupid conditions. With about 75 days underway and a maximum of 4' seas on the bow, the door without latch hasn't opened yet. I probably underestimated the strength of the magnetic door seal.

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Old 05-04-2019, 08:18 PM   #88
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No problem turning off the inverter at night if you freeze two Qt. plastic bottles filled 80% with very salty water (takes several days to completely freeze) and leave one in the freezer and put the other in the fridge each night.
That`s really a makeshift DIY eutectic solution(pun intended). Where do you freeze the bottles? Onboard?
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Old 05-11-2019, 09:09 AM   #89
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Wow!

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The main issue with propane frigs is flame. Every RV sitting on the side of the road on fire is caused by the propane frig, or so I have been told. The whole idea of having an open flame, not monitored, gives me the shakes. Can't pull over and jump out as easily as an RV.
I am sure it happens, but in all my years I have never seen one on the road on fire. Sounds like an extremely low probability event. I would bet the insurance companies donít care.

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Old 05-11-2019, 09:21 AM   #90
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Not always a choice

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My comment was more about my amazement that people seem resigned to put up with inadequate battery banks and inverters while seemingly not blinking an eye at buying some new marine electronics or the latest IPhone or getting endless layers of varnish done.
If we all had 60 foot boats, we could all carry more batteries. I would hard pressed to find room for another battery box, and have to make do with 2 8Ds for a house bank. I find my u-line ice maker is my biggest consumer. We make a tub of ice, bag it and put it in our chest freezer so I can shut off the icemaker.

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Old 05-11-2019, 10:05 AM   #91
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I’ve often thought that one possible solution to the whole refrigeration power issue, would be to put a 120 volt fridge on its own separate, inverter/battery/solar/charging circuit, where it couldn’t affect the main house battery system at all.

If you have the room, which we do, for such an extra system.
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Old 05-11-2019, 12:00 PM   #92
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I am sure it happens, but in all my years I have never seen one on the road on fire. Sounds like an extremely low probability event. I would bet the insurance companies donít care.

Gordon
Actually I bet your insurance company would care. The RV fridges are not approved for marine use. They are not designed to run off level more than a few degrees or the solution will start to beke into flakes and the the system will plug up and the refer is junk at that point.
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Old 05-11-2019, 12:33 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Gordon J View Post
If we all had 60 foot boats, we could all carry more batteries. I would hard pressed to find room for another battery box, and have to make do with 2 8Ds for a house bank. I find my u-line ice maker is my biggest consumer. We make a tub of ice, bag it and put it in our chest freezer so I can shut off the icemaker.

Gordon
If you have an additional inch or two of vertical clearance, you could expand your battery bank capacity by almost 50% without changing the footprint. I did this years ago by replacing my 2 8D batteries with 6 golf cart batteries and gained 47% capacity in AH. (450AH vs. 660AH)
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Old 05-11-2019, 03:32 PM   #94
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I am sure it happens, but in all my years I have never seen one on the road on fire. Sounds like an extremely low probability event. I would bet the insurance companies donít care.

Gordon
If my Ipad had not failed (replaced with insurance) I could show some pictures I took of a motor home completely engulfed in flames. This occurred last summer on Rt 95 in North Attleboro MA. Of course, I have no idea what caused the fire but I certainly know there was a fire with flames 20-30' at least into the air.

https://www.thesunchronicle.com/news...203ec10cb.html
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Old 05-11-2019, 03:46 PM   #95
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If we all had 60 foot boats, we could all carry more batteries. I would hard pressed to find room for another battery box, and have to make do with 2 8Ds for a house bank. I find my u-line ice maker is my biggest consumer. We make a tub of ice, bag it and put it in our chest freezer so I can shut off the icemaker.

Gordon

Yeah, I can understand limited battery capacity. But one does not need a 60'er. Mine is only 40, I carry 8ea 6v golfcarts rated at a total of 860 AH which are charged with my 4 295W solar panels. My fridge is about 8.3 cuft or so with self defrost. Solar has no troubles keeping my batteries charged. My boat is still on the hard waiting for better weather. It is ready to go so I activated my fridge.......to keep some soda cool and things just chug away.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:43 AM   #96
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"The RV fridges are not approved for marine use. They are not designed to run off level more than a few degrees or the solution will start to beke into flakes and the the system will plug up and the refer is junk at that point."

House refrigerators and freezers also are " not approved for marine use..

Doesn't seem to bother anyone.

Propane reefers from the 50-60-70era were a problem with being off level for long periods of time .

The new units operate fine if the RV is level enough to stay in bed with out a belt.

Modest motion actually helps the circulation .

We have a couple of decades on our antique propane reefer, made by Motorola , before Dometic took the line over. Ours is on a self draining aft cockpit , but I have seen others mounted inside , just properly vented .

I would never again outfit a boat without a propane reefer , which is probably saying a lot as our 90/90 only requires 2 hours of engine operation to bring down eutetic plates that hold ice cream at 5F for 3-4 days.

Every 18 -20 days we change propane bottles , lots better than any alternative!
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:09 PM   #97
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Apparently my new apartment refrigerator doesn't consume any battery bank power when on the hook.

I've been repeatedly asked how much power the unit consumes including the inverter idle consumption. So I finally got around to doing a test.

The test:
After the unit had been running and temperature stable for a few days, I ran a 24 hour test from 12 noon to 12 noon. I set the air conditioner at 80 degrees upper limit and recorded cabin temperatures from 72 to 80 degrees. The refrigerator is in the upper 30s and the freezer was just above 0 degrees Fahrenheit.

With everything else turned off (including the refrigerator), the inverter (Magnum Energy MS 2812) draws 2.9 amps at 12.5 volts according to my Vicktron Battery Monitor. When you turn on the circuit for the refrigerator and the ventilation fan (fan runs continuously) without the refrigerator compressor running, the power consumption goes up by .15 amps according to the battery Monitor. So, the total power consumption of the inverter and refrigerator circuit without the compressor running is 3.05 amps at 12.5 VDC, or 38.125 watts. This 38.125 watts over 24 hours equals 915 watts or 73.2 AH (Amp Hours).

So, of the power consumed in 24 hours, the inverter and non compressor consumption is 73.2 AH. You'll want to remember that number.

So I started the test with my battery Monitor reading 100% state of charge. Waited for the compressor to run for a while and watched the battery monitor drop to 99.8% state of charge. When I returned to the boat the next day, the state of charge was down to 92.5%. The refrigerator and the inverter had consumed 7.5% of the battery bank. My battery bank is made up of Trojan T-105s. 4 pairs gives me 900 AH. 7.5% of 900 AH is 67.5 AH. You'll want to remember that number also.

So, the test consumed 67.5 AH. Of that 67.5 AH, 73.2 AH were consumed by the inverter and refrigerator circuit without the compressor. So, my refrigerator compressor and frost free function consumed -5.7 AH.

I'm sure someone can explain this slight discrepancy to me. Frankly, I don't care. Consuming <8% of the 900 AH battery bank in 24 hours is all I care about.


Ted
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:17 PM   #98
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I'm sure someone can explain this slight discrepancy to me. Frankly, I don't care. Consuming <8% of the 900 AH battery bank in 24 hours is all I care about.

I can't explain the discrepancy, but I think you may be optimistic about the 900 Ah battery bank. Battery capacity is a guess, unless you have the means to do a load test. My own house bank should have been 780 Ah when the batteries were new. I have no idea if that really is the case or not. I seem to recall CMS suggesting that a battery bank often will lose about 5% capacity per year.


So I would take that 8% number with a grain of salt because the 900 Ah is likely a WAG.
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:26 PM   #99
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Ted, I bet you're putting too much faith in that % of charge remaining and it's causing fuzzy math results. The SOC% is known to drift on many of these meters. That's apparently what makes the Balmar SG-200 so unique in its ability to track Battery health and SOC so accurately.

Do you have a Kill-a-watt meter? If so, plug it into the fridge and let it do its monitoring for a 24 hr period. It'll provide an independent source for the watts consumed during that period.
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:30 PM   #100
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I can't explain the discrepancy, but I think you may be optimistic about the 900 Ah battery bank. Battery capacity is a guess, unless you have the means to do a load test. My own house bank should have been 780 Ah when the batteries were new. I have no idea if that really is the case or not. I seem to recall CMS suggesting that a battery bank often will lose about 5% capacity per year.


So I would take that 8% number with a grain of salt because the 900 Ah is likely a WAG.
Think you missed the point of the last paragraph. While the 8% may not be super accurate, the Norcold number without the inverter would have been a much higher percentage. I only care that I'm consuming far less than I was with before and have a far superior refrigerator.

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