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Old 11-17-2011, 08:20 AM   #21
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

Quote:
HeadMistress wrote:That's not really true either...solid waste is 75% water, so it dissolves very quickly IN water...

Zucchinis contain about 95 percent water but they aren't going to dissolve very quickly either.
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:18 AM   #22
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

The SeaLand RV gravity toilets are used a lot on houseboats that have deep bilges becasue they are cheap.. And, unlike the VacuFlush, they actually CAN use as little as a pint of flush water, cuz only enough to rinse the bowl is needed.

SeaLand makes a self contained version of it called the 711-M28 "Marine Traveler"...the toilet is mounted directly atop a 9 gallon holding tank. http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...1394&id=105225 Because it does use so little flush water, few people find that they need a larger tank, but one can be plumbed by simply redirecting the pumpout line to it via a macerator or electric diaphragm pump. It's actually just a glorified "MSD" version portapotty ("MSD" means designed to be permanently installed and fitted for pumpout), but because it uses a real china toilet and is a no brainer for guests (also impossible to clog), I really like this system.

If you do add the second tank, I recommend that the capacity be a multiple of the smaller tank...iow, a 9 gallon tank should go into an 18 or 27 gallon tank. If it's, say, a 25 gallon tank, you know you can dump the 9 gallon into it twice...but it's gonna overflow if you can't can't stop the macerator in time when you dump the 9 gallon tank the 3rd time....but if the larger tank holds a multiple of the smaller, you only have to keep track of how MANY times you've moved the small tank into it. Another caveat: always wait till the small tank is full to move the contents, or you won't know how much capacity is left in the larger tank.
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:23 AM   #23
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

Quote:
RickB wrote:HeadMistress wrote:That's not really true either...solid waste is 75% water, so it dissolves very quickly IN water...
Zucchinis contain about 95 percent water but they aren't going to dissolve very quickly either.

They don't if they're raw, but what's left after they've been digested does. :nana:
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:47 PM   #24
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

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HeadMistress wrote:They don't if they're raw, but what's left after they've been digested does. :nana:
*Not until the "residue" has been broken up mechanically ... with a macerator or some other means. If it dissolved*"very quickly"*there would be no need for macerators or other devices to accelerate the reduction process in most MSD systems.

Is there something wrong with*the*ears on your little smiley? It looks like it's drooling and*has floppy moose horns* ... or is that just*a cutesy little girly thang?**Or is it sort of like a teenager*punctuating a lost* cause*with*"whatever."
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Old 11-17-2011, 08:47 PM   #25
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

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*Not until the "residue" has been broken up mechanically ... with a macerator or some other means. If it dissolved*"very quickly"*there would be no need for macerators or other devices to accelerate the reduction process in most MSD systems.
* Actually macerators aren't needed except in Type I MSDs, and then only because the law requires that the waste be "pureed" beyond what any macerating* toilet or discharge pump is capable of doing. Type II MSDs don't macerate...they use bio-activity to break down and liquify waste.

Manual toilets don't macerate...neither do manual or electric diaphragm pumps--which include the SeaLand VacuFlush pump and the SeaLand T-Series* discharge pump...and macerators have never been required in any RV systeml

So if macerators are needed, how is it that there more systems that don't have 'em than systems that do?

*

*

*

*
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Old 11-18-2011, 05:45 AM   #26
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

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HeadMistress wrote:So if macerators are needed, how is it that there more systems that don't have 'em than systems that do?
To begin with, I never said macerators are "needed."If you are going to play the role of expert you need to choose your words more carefully.

"More systems" that you know about and have worked on include the lowest cost hold and pumpout types that appear to be the foundation of your business. They tend to clog and sludge and create odor problems that keep the chemical sales folks in business and make MSDs such a popular subject in boating forums.

Because "solids" don't dissolve rapidly without mechanical influence and tend to settle before biological processes can reduce them to smaller particulates and gases, maceration or other mechanical methods to break up the material greatly contributes to a properly functioning system and is the reason why non-recreational system use macerators or similar devices.

Even the rapid flow and changes in direction created by a vacuum system will break up "solids" to some degree but just stating that they "dissolve very quickly" is nonsense. The oils in the "solids" can greatly reduce the solvent action of water.

If solids dissolved rapidly there would be far fewer issues with MSDs and holding tanks.
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:51 AM   #27
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

You never said macerators are needed? Read your own words: "If it dissolved "very quickly" there would be no need for macerators..."

What issues can you name that are caused by undissolved solids? Not by toilet paper, or flushing things that marine toilets can't "swallow," or sea water mineral buildup in the system...but ONLY by undissolved solids. In 25 years, I can't think of a single one except for a few temporary clogs that dissolved on their own in an hour or two (which, btw, would be "very quickly" by most people's definition). Of course, people who don't know that panic and do work that doesn't need to be done.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:03 AM   #28
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

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HeadMistress wrote:You never said macerators are needed? Read your own words: "If it dissolved "very quickly" there would be no need for macerators..."
My my my ... how about quoting the full statement in context.

"If it dissolved*"very quickly"*there would be no need for macerators or other devices to accelerate the reduction process in most MSD systems."

Why are you now demanding examples of problems caused "only" by solids? Geez, stick to the subject. You would be better off just keeping quiet than trying to find reverse gear. Your credibility is not benefiting by playing games with words. That approach is truly a*load of "solids."

*
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:09 PM   #29
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

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Old Stone wrote:Again - this getting personal? Ease up
I don't think*the lady needs you to play*white knight.*She's a big girl*(despite the na na na episodes) and if she*wants to argue let her speak for herself.

And, sticking to the subject, when someone quotes a statement it is good form to quote it so that the context is not changed. Calling someone on that kind of behavior is not "getting personal."
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Old 11-19-2011, 10:00 AM   #30
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

Ahhhh...the rub...what are the facts????* Usually in these forums the snippets of info can seem divergent yet have the same basic factual principles.

So unless a discussion get's so lengthy people lose track or don't follow every post...it's hard to say that one is posting "facts".

*
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Old 11-20-2011, 05:14 AM   #31
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

ON a boat that had the space the RV Sealand , with direct drop into a holding tank would be my first choice.

IF the tank were above the WL, the 3 way valve could select GRAVITY (when permitted by the great Poo Patrol Police ) for a trouble free set up.

The deck wash hose (or a bucket) could be used in the "pump out position " to get a really clean sweep of the holding tank.
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Old 11-20-2011, 06:39 AM   #32
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

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FF wrote:
ON a boat that had the space the RV Sealand , with direct drop into a holding tank would be my first choice.

IF the tank were above the WL, the 3 way valve could select GRAVITY (when permitted by the great Poo Patrol Police ) for a trouble free set up.

The deck wash hose (or a bucket) could be used in the "pump out position " to get a really clean sweep of the holding tank.
*Good points.* On my Albin the holding tank was glass with gelcoat interior.* When I was renovating...all the pipes going into it were rotton so I cut a rectangular access plate on top and installed the new inlets in a thick piece of plexiglass and reinstalled with a gasket.* When the tank was opened I cleaned it out and the gel coat showed whiter than the cabin sides topsides.

Now with the plexi top a quick glance when I'm in the engine room checking things lets me know level with no guessing or problematic sensors.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:53 PM   #33
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

I recall reading a review of a highly customized Willard 40 where the head had a straight drop into the holding tank. The interesting part was that the bottom of the holding tank was right at *the waterline so the outlet could be left open while at sea, giving the tank a slight seawater wash while underway. I thought that was kind of slick, although I'm not sure how useful it is in the grand scheme of things.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:36 AM   #34
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

"The interesting part was that the bottom of the holding tank was right at the waterline so the outlet could be left open while at sea, giving the tank a slight seawater wash while underway."

Nothing in the world better than KISS.

Nothing to fix is a boaters dream!
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:28 PM   #35
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

We have two electric flush heads; each with identical and comfortable porcelain bowls.* Always use quick disintegration Marine TP.* One flushes*through Raritan LectraSan.* One empties into 30 gal holding tank.* Both use raw water.* I reflush with clean*water into tank and then*place plenty of emulsion tabs/liquid into holding tank at each pump out (experience no odors due to heavy hoses, thick tank material and well followed emulsion/deodorizer schedule).**Add salt per flush for LectraSan when in fresh water... if legal to use.* Head with holding tank gets much use! **I installed a gate valve on each of the incoming water hoses, placing it close to electric flush button.* We put a small water pool in bowl for a #2 and adjust a minimal water flow while flushing, thus using little water.* For #1 we simply flush and rinse via water trickle.* Experienced no problem for years. *Do need to instruct persons not accustom to my set up.* For younger grand kids... I get the honors, whats a Grand Pa ta do!!* LOL
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Old 01-09-2012, 01:03 PM   #36
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

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HeadMistress wrote:
SeaLand makes a self contained version of it called the 711-M28 "Marine Traveler"...the toilet is mounted directly atop a 9 gallon holding tank.
Peggy I was JUST looking at this on the Defender site.* We are looking getting a small boat for the delta and the one we like has a porta pottie with deck pump out.* To our knowledge it works but we'd prefer something more like a traditional marine head.*This sea land unit looked like a nice step up from a porta potty.* Are there any "watch outs" we need to keep in mind if we consider this unit?*
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:33 PM   #37
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

Two caveats: Make sure there's enough level sole in the head for the 20' x 20" tank footprint and "knee room." It does use onboard pressurized flush water, so make sure you have enough fresh water to spare.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:45 AM   #38
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

ok thanks Peggy.* Still weighing options.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:23 PM   #39
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

I just installed a new model jabsco head I has a computezed flush So far it is working great and uses little water Kinda loud but I am happy ...time will tell
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:32 PM   #40
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RE: Manual or Electric Head

We have an electric and like it. It's not a Vacuflush. Chris did'nt like the noise they make. I just winterized it today. Been dragging my feet as the weather has been mild. Has'nt been below 18 or 20 so far but it's supposed to be 10 in a day or two. But we like the electric head and have it plumed to fresh water.

Eric
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