Interior Refinishing

[DavidM]

The interior of our Mainship Pilot 34 which is a satin varnished cherry, has gotten old and dull. Mildew has attacked it in many areas which leaves a dull, mottled finish which can't be removed with allof the cleaners and mild polishes that I have tried. So here are three choices for refinishing in the order of ease and cost. I would like your thoughts.

1. Light compounding followed by furniture wax. This should get the dull finish off and the wax will bring back the gloss. Cheap and fairly easy.

2. Light sanding followed by a coat or two of water based Minwax Polycrylic Clear Satin. I chose this because water based is so much easier to clean up after, particularly in small batches which is the way I will have to tackle this project. I am concerned about how this product will hold up in a marine environment and maybe mildew faster than oil based varnish. Also once you go water based, you have to remove it all if you want to go back to an oil based varnish.

3. Light sanding followed by Interlux Goldspar Satin Varnish. I know this will do a very nice job and hold up well because I have used it on a teak and holly sole and it worked great. It is just more of a pita to clean up after.

So anyone have any specific experience with water based varnishes, or other thoughts?

David

 

[FF]

Get some Rotten stone for the smoothing , removal portion.

 

[Lou_tribal]

I would not go with #1, I would not use wax over varnish. Moreover wax need some maintenance if you want to keep its shine.
Water based varnish why not, never used it in a boat but used water based polyurethane it in wet environment (bathroom) for wood exposed to shower water and after many years it is still holding perfectly. I used 5 coat of varnish with very light sanding using superfine steel wool between each coat to ensure the wood is sealed.

DHeckrotte would be able to give yu best info on this.

L.

 

[Pack Mule]

I use water base stuff when I have to but I've noticed that when I use it in a damp environment it takes a long time to dry . I've been using some oil base wipe on satin poly by minwax . It's easy to use but you have to make sure to dispose of the tags properly.

 

[BrotherDave]

I have heard a lot of good things about Kramer's Best Antique Improver and I got some but haven't tried it yet. You might find it worthwhile to Google it and see what the reviews say.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

#2 but with oil base.

 

[gaston]

Ive had great success with Restore and Finish and or orange oil with wax
I don't know if these products are available in USA but something the same maybe could be worth a try before sanding and re coating .We used these products where small patches need doing and the finish blended in with the original.



Products

 

[rwidman]

I realize you're talking about wood on a boat but really what you are trying to do is restore furniture or wood paneling so you would probably get better advice from a furniture refinishing forum.


That said, I have noticed that while water based coatings are far easier to use than oil based and seem to be as durable, they provide a clear, sterile finish while oil based products leave a "warm glow".


You might want to test both and see what you think.


Another bit of advice is to use a compatible solvent to get and wax or oil from hand prints off the existing finish before you do anything else.

 

[Bacchus]

My favorite finish in Waterlox Tung Oil...available in several finishes satin - gloss.
Ive used it for yeak trim aboard...wipe it on and tossthe rag ( not aboard due to combustion). Ive brushed several coats on a kitchen table and it stands up to water very well.
Touch up is easy...steel wool or light sand and apply another coat.
Ive tried the Minwax variety but it doesnt come close to Waterlox.

 

[bilge53]

Finish

#2 but with oil base.

The time difference will be minimal and the outcome will be very pleasing and make it look like you worked harder than you did.

 

[Nomad Willy]

#2 but with oil base.

I'd sand till the teak looks like relatively fresh wood and then stain w red cherry stain. Try on sample wood peices. A little brown will probably tone down the red and going a little light on the stain probably keep it from being too dark. Once the wood is stained the color and value of lightness/darkness will be stable over time through several light refinishes .. or more. Personally I would almost never use stain in the varnish. Works for one app but fixing it after it gets weathered is a hopeless cause. I am not an expert on stain though.

Then I'd apply turpentine w a little high gloss varnish and possibly a little boiled Linseed oil or Tung oil. It will never be glossy at all w the small amount of oil. The high gloss product has better elements like good Tung oil. Start w about 10 - 15% oil and decrease the amount of oil w the following applications.

It's really very simple. Just apply a bit of oil in turpentine. Turp really has a strong odor so if you can't stand the smell use paint thinner. I never have but I think it would go much like the turpentine.

These oils are of course fungus food and will turn dark over time. I've not had a problem w that but w enough warm weather and humidity it would happen. Perhaps a little salt in the turp would retard mold and fungus .. I don't know. There are commercial products to limit fungus and black mold but make sure you use an oil based product. But just keeping it relatively dry seems to work fairly well.

To touch up a repeat w less oil is easy to do and that's one of the best benefits of the turp/oil "finish". Too much oil will probably start to produce a bit of gloss. Hasn't happened to me but an application of strait turp rubbed on would probably cut the gloss. Sand a bit if it dosn't.

 

[BruceK]

Not sure you`ll get rid of the "dull mottled finish" without taking it right back. Degraded finish is why antiques sometimes get stripped and refinished, but losing the original "polish" devalues them.
I`d try #3, it refreshes what you have, you can`t be worse off doing it, and you know it can work. You might want to apply a diluted stain after sanding, if it`s well diluted you can apply multiple coats until you are happy you have gone far enough.
If the gloss ends up too glossy, try paste furniture wax applied in a circular fashion using furniture grade steel wool. A repro cabinet at home was improved,changing a hard yellowish gloss to a softer mellow "antique" finish.

 

[Datenight]

David,

I think #2 is a good solution. Number three will look warmer for not much more work. As usual prep is everything. Once prepped the only difference is clean up.

Oil based will give a warmer finish and tend to run less on a vertical surface. Waterborn allows 2 or more coats per day. Inside no need for use a "marine" finish. If using waterborn finish do not use steel wool between coats-it can leave small particles which may leave rust spots. Use a maroon scotch bright pad.

If you wax you will have to be very careful to remove it all if you want to go back to a varnish or urethane.

Good luck,

Rob

 

[AusCan]

I'd go #3.
In regard to cleanup, simply toss your brushes and rags into the freezer between work sessions.

 

[BruceK]

I'd go #3.
In regard to cleanup, simply toss your brushes and rags into the freezer between work sessions.

I`ve even wrapped brushes in kitchen cling film at the boat, brought them homer to clean, they stay nice and flexible. But don`t try it with 2 pack.

 

[Shoalwaters]

I`ve even wrapped brushes in kitchen cling film at the boat, brought them home to clean, they stay nice and flexible. But don`t try it with 2 pack.

Yup! I keep a pack of those little single-use sandwich bags on board for just that purpose. Easier to clean brushes at home in my workshop.

 

[Brooksie]

Don't use water based poly. Minwax Helmsman or other quality solvent based poly varnish. If the existing varnish itself has turned cloudy, going over it (especially with satin varnish) will obscure the wood even more. Make a test area where you both go over and remove some varnish with a hook scraper and reapply, see if there is a difference and that you have good adhesion over the old finish b/4 you really decide.

I just redid a total teak 34' sailboat interior which had turned a purple/black color from oxidized teak oil over the years. Bleaching & scraping & sanding followed by Helmsman semigloss.

 

[FF]

For interior joinery work , which is really close to cabinet making , use a cabinet makers scraping tool not a house or fence paint scraper.

https://www.amazon.com/Crown-376-Cabinet-Scraper-Gooseneck/dp/B001C06BLE

 

[DavidM]

Well, thank you all who posted thoughts and advice. Some had good experience with water based varnish in a wet environment and I respect that advice.

At the end of the day I decided the hastle of using an oil based varnish was minimal. I like the idea of putting brushes in a plastic bag or wrap with aluminum foil and taking them home and putting them in the refrigerator until next time.

I also saw advice that the "look" of oil based varnish will be nicer. So I will go with #3: sand well but not try to remove all of the existing varnish but certainly enough to cut through the mildewed roughness then brush on a couple of coats of the Minwax Helmsman satin varnish as it is a safe bet.

David

 

[bilge53]

David, one last thing and I do not recall if it was mentioned...use good natural badger brushes. When you load them with varnish you will get a nice controllable application. The challenge is cleaning them but if tended to they will last a long time and your bright work will look great.

 

[SlowGypsy]

Re: gloss vs. matte varnish.
If you are aiming for a matte or satin finish, but feel you need multiple coats, always build up with gloss varnish, and leave the matte or satin varnish for the last coat only.
The gloss reducing agents in matte varnish are actually tiny particles that deflect or block light transmission. They introduce a cloudiness into the finish. Multiple coats of matte varnish will definitely reduce the beauty of the rich, warm wood grain.
So, four coats needed to get the effect you want? Put on three gloss coats, and one matte or satin.

 

[koliver]

Well, thank you all who posted thoughts and advice. Some had good experience with water based varnish in a wet environment and I respect that advice.

At the end of the day I decided the hastle of using an oil based varnish was minimal. I like the idea of putting brushes in a plastic bag or wrap with aluminum foil and taking them home and putting them in the refrigerator until next time.

I also saw advice that the "look" of oil based varnish will be nicer. So I will go with #3: sand well but not try to remove all of the existing varnish but certainly enough to cut through the mildewed roughness then brush on a couple of coats of the Minwax Helmsman satin varnish as it is a safe bet.

David

David

I see you have made the right decision. Good choice.
I didn't see anyone reply who had actually tried the water based varnish on their boat.
When I did mine, I couldn't find any comparative evidence between oil and water base, so I did the stb half of my dash with Varathane Diamond finish water based varnish and the port half with a good quality oil based varnish, both in a "semi gloss" finish.
After less than a year, the water based side had failed. If it got water on it, it would go cloudy. Naturally, it is in a boat, so would get wet. Regrettably, the water based product was very hard to remove, but remove it I did, replacing with the oil based product I had used on the other side. The oil based varnish is still good, likely about 15 years in.

 

[DavidM]

Aha!! Finally some real world marine experience with water based varnish. You confirmed my decision, Keith!!! And I knew it would be a bitch to remove if the water based failed.

And, yes I will use badger hair brushes.

Also interesting comment about satin effects. So first coats will be gloss and then satin for the final coat.

David

 

[Benchmark]

Use exterior spar varnish

I just refinished the whole main salon and galley on my 423 Ocean Alexander. I used 2 base coats of Pettit Flagship followed by 2 coats of Epiphanes Rubbed Effect satin with lovely results. The reason for using Spar varnish is to get the benefits of UV additives to retard sun damage and fading.....Thereby significantly extending the time to recover in future. The Epiphanes product appears to achieve satin finish by means other than tiny platelets.....You don't even need to stir it.....And it's a very forgiving product.

If you will be working on very large panels, contact me for methods and technique.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Aha!! Finally some real world marine experience with water based varnish. You confirmed my decision, Keith!!! And I knew it would be a bitch to remove if the water based failed.

And, yes I will use badger hair brushes.

Also interesting comment about satin effects. So first coats will be gloss and then satin for the final coat.

David

FWIW, I stopped using expensive brushes for interior refinishing a long time ago.

Between the costs of the brushes and solvent to clean them it's just not worth it to me.

I can get a very nice finish with good quality foam brushes and I don't have to deal with disposal of whatever I'd have to used to clean brushes with either.

I have also found it's no problem putting 2 or more costs of oil based finish on in a day without sanding between every coat.