I hate my Head

[kwmeyer13]

Hello All,
Currently on our Mainship 34 Pilothouse we have a Jabsco raw water compact electric flush toilet and I hate it. The bowl is to small and I think it makes way to much noise. It is one of the items that I would like to upgrade to make life on the boat more user friendly. I have read a lot of posts and manufacturers brochures on the different marine toilets on the market. I think I could just remove the compact bowl on my exsisting head and replace it with the household size but I am not sure if I could just get the bowl itself and that still leaves me with the noise issue. So I am leaning towards the Raritan Elegance. How ever I am not sure if I should go with a raw water or fresh water model. It seems to me that the raw water model has a seperate pump and requires more amps to run then the fresh water model. But then I wonder if the Raritan fresh water would use to much water. I only have a 70 gallon fresh water tank. Does anyone have first hand experience switching out the current Jabsco model I have to the Raritan Elegance? Does the wiring need to be upgraded for the sea water model? Will the plumbing need to be altered? Sorry for all the questions but I am pretty clueless on marine toilet plumbing. Any and all advice is welcomed and appreciated. Thanks, Kevin

 

[HopCar]

I can tell you that the Raritan Marine Elegance toilet is a huge upgrade from the the basic Jabsco electric toilet. It is a household size bowl and much quieter. The fresh water flush is cheaper than the raw water flush, it eliminates one source of bad odors and a pump. You can also opt for one that gives you the choice of a fresh or raw water flush at the push of a button.

With luck, Peggie Hall will find this thread and give you more details.
Have you read Peggie's book? You should. https://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-Boat-Odors/dp/1892399784

 

[HeadMistress]

I think most of your questions about the Elegance are answered in the owners manual
Raritan Marine Elegance Owners Manual

 

[kwmeyer13]

Thanks Hopcar. HeadMistress I read over the manual before posting and saw some of the differences and was a bit confused. That is why I posted here. I was hoping to come across someone that may have actually made the same swap that I am contimplating and perhaps could shed some light on the process.

 

[Antares]

I made the switch from a Jabsco compact electric head to the Raritan Elegance. At the same time we upgraded to holding tank and replaced all the hoses. Because of the compact size of the Jabsco, I made templates of both the base footprint and the seat profile of the Raritan. It took some jockeying to get a location that cleared the back wall, vanity and the shower door swing.

The footprint and hose holes were enough different it was necessary to put a new layer of teak on the floor to cover the old bolt and hose holes as the overlap of the new head would not of worked. If you have a glass where the head mounts it may be necessary to fill in the existing holes or cover the area with a piece of something like starboard.

The layout and plumbing in the head compartment just take patience as hoses and wires are tucked into the pedestal. The control board is remotely located but the wiring hookup is straight forward. I also took advantage of the 1 inch outlet from the macerator to use 1 inch hose as I could not get 1 1/2 inch hose to make the corner up to the outlet due to a very shallow space under the head. As we are using fresh water, I'm hoping deposits will not be the same issue as with salt water. So far a year in there are no issues.

The head is dirt simple to use and much better than the Jabsco unit. The only thing I've noticed is it is not what I would consider quiet. Between the on demand fresh water pump in our system and the macerator the noise from flushing is noticeable.

If anyone has insight into getting a few decibels out of the macerator I'd to hear from you.

 

[kwmeyer13]

Thanks for the write up Antares, what boat do you have? Did you have to upgrade the wiring at all? Do you find the Raritan to be quieter than the Jabsco?

 

[Antares]

I did some wiring cleanup during the install but the power needs are reasonable. The wiring from the flush panel at the head to the control box is ethernet so that is easy. The control box can be remotely located which makes it easy to find a convenient spot. The wiring going to the head itself powers the macerator and operates the water valves. With a bit of luck you may be able to use the existing wiring to the head or else use it to pull the new wires. The manual is available and specs everything.

The new head is probably quieter but the main reason for the upgrade was the Jabsco model that came with the boat has a history of breaking and parts didn't seem to be readily available. The Jabsco also had a nasty little habit of spitting back a little bit at the end of the cycle. This required a quick slam of the lid. Between the two it was an easy decision to make the change.

Our boat is a Canoe Cove 42 Sedan.

 

[ksanders]

The Jabsco head you are contemplating replacing is pretty much the most cost effective head on the market. The only head more cost effective is he fully manual version of the same head.

The Raritanhead you are considering for purchase is pretty much the "best" head o the market. No corners cut to save costs.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the Jabsco head. It's inexpensive to replace, parts are cheap, and readly available pretty much at any marine store in the country. Pretty hard to beat that.

What I will say is that I have personally, on my own boats, replaced several Jabsco heads with Raritan units and been extremely pleased with the results.

 

[ranger58sb]

KW, I'll mention there might be another option, if for some reason the base of Raritan's Marine Elegance presents some kind of mounting problem. If that's the case, the base of Jabsco's Quiet Flush freshwater electric full size toilet may sit on whatever mount your original Jabsco compact unit lives on wit no modification. I don't know it will do that, just making a guess that Jabsco's products may all mount similarly.

Not a recommendation, just a thought.

I can't compare the QF to the Raritan -- no "hands-on" experience with the latter -- but our QF works OK. (Peggie can likely offer a comparison...)

Ours got loud, eventually, after about 14 years of age. Replaced the motor, not particularly expensive, it got quiet again.

-Chris

 

[kwmeyer13]

Well it seems that if I replace with the Raritan I would go with the fresh water model. The reason mostly being electrical in nature. My current wiring from the panel to the head is #10 wire which would be sufficient for the fresh water model but not the sea water version. It would be much to difficult to do a proper installation of new wiring given the layout of my boat. I could not properly encase/support new wiring. I will not start something if I know there is no way of doing it correctly.
That brings me to the fresh water model. Is it complicated to tap into the fresh water supply? Can I just tee off one of the lines in the bathroom or does a seperate supply line with back flow prevent or something else need to be run? All the manual shows is a tee/shut off in the water supply and in the parts break down nothing says check valve so am I missing something?
Thanks, Kevin

 

[kwmeyer13]

Ranger thanks for the suggestion. The mounting does not seems to be an issue from what I can see at this point. If for some reason I can't go with the fresh water Raritan I think I would just see if I can just get a Jabsco house hold size bowl and swap it out with the compact. The literature seems to indicate that base set up would accept either size bowl. The task would be finding just the bowl itself.

 

[Comodave]

You can just tee into any water line, preferably cold, because the toilet has a backflow preventer built into it.

 

[DavidM]

I was surprised that you said that #10 wire would not handle the Raritan Elegance. I have the same boat and the old Jabsco toilet. The one way length from the breaker panel to where the remote sea water pump would be located under the sink is about 12 feet. The Raritan installation instructions say it pulls 18 amps which for 10 ga wire results in a voltage drop of 0.45V or 3.7%. That isn't as good as most recommendation of limiting the voltage drop to 3% but I will bet it would work ok.

Even if you had to upgrade the wire to 8 ga it wouldn't be that difficult. From the breaker panel, the wire goes down to the back side of the main bulkhead and then in a loom across the beam and then forward into the head compartment. Using the old wire should make it fairly easy to pull a new #8.

But I think that overall dimensions may make using the Elegance difficult. The Jabsco Quiet Flush will probably fit as is and use less current as it is a single motor for raw water and macerating.

David

 

[aenlic]

Though it sounds like the choice of an electric/water-based head has already been made, I HIGHLY recommend the Airhead composting toilet.

I've been living aboard for two months with this and an Electra-Scan head, and only used the latter once... the noiise isintolerable for me, and my plan is to replace that with another Airhead as soon as possible.


Here's their web page:

Air Head Composting Toilet | For Boats, RVs & Cabins | Environmental Toilets with Compact Convenience:

No smell. No noise. No water to haul around and replace. No pumpouts. Can you tell that I'm a fan? lol

aenlic

 

[kwmeyer13]

David, I was figuring the need to change wire size based on the section

2. Distance from power source to remote intake pump MUST be included when determining total distance.Same wire size MUST be used for lower base and remote intake pump.

So if I mount the remote intake pump in the rear bilge area then the distance will be quite a lot longer. Perhaps my understanding of marine electrical systems leaves a lot to be desired.
Kevin

 

[HeadMistress]

But I think that overall dimensions may make using the Elegance difficult.The Jabsco Quiet Flush will probably fit as is...

If you'd checked the dimensions for each, you'd have found that the Elegance is actually smaller than the Jabsco QF with household size bowl:
The Elegance bowl is 18" front-back... the Jabsco houshold bowl is 19.75"
The Elegance bowl is 14" wide...the Jabsco household size bowl is 14.75"
The Elegance base is 12.25" front-back...the Jabsco base is 12 7/8".

...and use less current as it is a single motor for raw water and macerating.

If you check the voltage specs for the amperage draw for all raw water toilets vs. fresh water toilets you'll find that the opposite is true. Raritan sea water macerating toilets that have integral motors draw about 16 amps...the Jabsco Quiet Flush sea water version draws 18. Both the Raritan and Jabsco fresh water toilets only draw 10. The reason: the motors in sea water toilets that have an integral intake/discharge motor have to power both the intake and discharge impellers (the Raritan SeaEra has a diaphragm pump assembly instead of just an intake impeller). There is no intake pump or impeller in toilets designed to use pressurized fresh water, just a valve in the intake line that opens and closes the line to allow and cut off the flow of flush water, same as a sink faucet does. That valve may or may not be an electric solenoid valve depending on the make/model of the toilet.

There's another good reason to with a Raritan toilet: they're top rated and Raritan is last US electric toilet mfr left who still makes everything in the US. Everything Jabsco sells in the US is now made in Mexico with components, parts and materials sourced from China and other Asian countries.

You can just tee into any water line, preferably cold...
Not preferably, DEFINITELY cold. And it should be a cold water line close to the toilet, which on most boats would make it the cold water line to the sink.

 

[DavidM]

Well yes, I didn't read the Raritan specs closely enough. According to Raritan the raw water pump draws 18 amps (a huge number, btw) and the macerating pump on the back of the toilet draws another 10 amps. So 28 in all and that is why you need 8 gauge wire.

David

 

[kwmeyer13]

I am glad that I made sense David. I value your input based previous posts you have made and the fact you have the boat as me is a definite plus as well.
Peggy thanks for the clarification on Comodaves post about the water line. I was hoping that teeing off the sinks cold line was possible since the sink is right next to the head. I also love that it made in the USA.

 

[Benthic2]

 

[kwmeyer13]

 

[dwhatty]

 

[kwmeyer13]

Am I missing something? ?

 

[dwhatty]

Off with his head! French Revolution.

 

[Benthic2]

The thread title is: "I hate my head"... If you hate something...you get rid of it.....

 

[DHeckrotte]

We changed a perfectly good, recent Raritan PH II, manual, to a Raritan Marine Elegance. There had been an electric head once. I stripped out all the hoses for the old and the then current head and installed new. I similarly stripped out all the cut-off wiring for the past head. I made a new fiberglass base and 'backsplash' for the new RME. I had to make my own adapters for horizontal hose connections to replace the vertical-through-the-base connections of the RME. I installed the raw water pump for the Sea-Fresh option but have not used it. We use the fresh. Looks good, works well, the Admiral's pleased.

 

[kwmeyer13]

I guess when the "Admiral" is happy all,is well because "a happy wife is a happy life"

 

[kwmeyer13]

The thread title is: "I hate my head"... If you hate something...you get rid of it.....

Never claimed to be the sharpest "nife" in the draw

 

[HeadMistress]

Well yes, I didn't read the Raritan specs closely enough.
According to Raritan the raw water pump draws 18 amps (a huge number, btw) and the macerating pump on the back of the toilet draws another 10 amps. So 28 in all and that is why you need 8 gauge wire.

You still haven't read 'em closely enough because none of that is right.
I have no idea which toilet you're talking about so I'm gonna start with the Elegance:

The Elegance is designed to used pressurized fresh water. However adding a remote sea water pump will allow it to also use sea water. That remote pump draws 8 amps in addition to the discharge pump's 10 amp draw for a TOTAL amperage draw of 18 amps using sea water(the same draw as the sea water version of the Jabsco Quiet Flush, btw), only 2 more than the SeaEra which has an integral sea water pump. Because there is no intake pump in the fresh water version, it draws only 10. NOT 10 in addition to the remote intake pump, a TOTAL of 10.

The SeaEra is available as EITHER a sea water or fresh water toilet...neither version can be modified to be either/or or both. The sea water version has an integral motor that powers both the intake pump and the discharge pump...which run simultaneously drawing 16 amps--a TOTAL draw of 16 amps. There is no sea water intake pump on the fresh water version, nor is it possible to add one...so the 10 amps needed by the discharge pump is ALL it draws.
...and the macerating pump on the back of the toilet draws another 10 amps.

Since that's not where anything is on the Elegance, I'm assuming that we're still talking about the SeaEra
The macerating pump consists of an impeller and a "blender" blade, neither of which draw a single amp. 10 amps is all that's needed by the pump motor in the fresh water version of either Raritan toilet.

You're welcome to call Raritan if you don't believe me: 800-352-5630

 

[HiDHo]

I choose to plumb 1/2" water hose to supply our Raritan Elegance, teeing off the discharge of our fresh water pump and installing a shut off valve. I think you will have a better flow of flushing water, this was noted by a friend who teed off one of the head cold water supplies on his boat. Just a thought.
We also had to completely replace the base it sets on because the old Raritan Atlantis cut out for hoses did not work with the Elegance base mount. We replaced the base board which was marine ply with starboard.

 

[markpierce]

Originally to cut off hands; not heads.