Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-05-2016, 11:46 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
djleu's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA / Waterford, CT
Country: US
Vessel Name: Change of Latitude
Vessel Model: 2005 GB 42 Classic
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 29
Hurricane heater blowing smoke

We have a Hurricane heater in our GB42. It runs fine and then, suddenly, a very large puff of smoke is pushed out. Not a small one - a large one. Then it continues to run fine. This happens several times a day on our winter cruise in the PNW this year. I wonder if anyone knows what is causing this issue? I also wonder if I should be concerned? Many thanks for any information and experiences that you might be able to share.

Cheers,

Don
__________________
Advertisement

djleu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 12:02 AM   #2
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,319
In the FAQ section on the Hurricane Heater website (3rd to last question) they say it could be a low voltage issue, or the heater needs to be serviced. Have you checked the combustion chamber? They recommend checking the troubleshooting section in the manual.
__________________

__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 12:11 AM   #3
Veteran Member
 
djleu's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA / Waterford, CT
Country: US
Vessel Name: Change of Latitude
Vessel Model: 2005 GB 42 Classic
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 29
Thanks. We have had it completely rebuilt by the good folks at the plant outside Vancouver and serviced re this issue in the fall. I have the pdf you refer to but assume the tech (very experienced with Hurricanes) did as well. I greatly appreciate your advice and will have the voltage checked and the other items as well on the list from Hurricane. Thanks, again!!
djleu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 12:14 AM   #4
Veteran Member
 
djleu's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA / Waterford, CT
Country: US
Vessel Name: Change of Latitude
Vessel Model: 2005 GB 42 Classic
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 29
I should indicate the smoke is very white, not black.
djleu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 06:32 AM   #5
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,515
My guess,

White smoke is usually a sign of fuel with no combustion.

Perhaps a bit of water puts the flame out and the temp in the unit re-ignites it after a few seconds.

Is there a water trap for the fuel to the unit?

Could also be a failure to feed enough fuel to maintain combustion , and again a relight from latent heat in the unit.

Does it BANG or POP when relighting?

Some heaters have weak fuel pumps , is the diesel tank in use full?
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 01:12 PM   #6
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,442
Have you burped the fuel supply? There is a small valve on top of the unit that can be opened to purge air. I added a short clear tube to mine long enough for it to drain into a container.

Also, part of the combustion process is the production of water. Are you sure that what you are seeing is not water vapour in the cold winter air at the initial startup before the heater gets to full temperature?

It has a good clean combustion process but it has no catalytic converter or any other "emission controls."
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 03:02 PM   #7
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,356
Marcello Velonosi at ITR Vancouver is the Hurricane guru. Give him a call or an e-mail, he is very responsive and a fount of knowledge. He loves boaters.
sunchaser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2016, 12:03 AM   #8
Veteran Member
 
City: Laconner
Country: US
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 67
I saw the smoke at Stuart when you were there at New Years. Did the unit shut off or did it keep going and clear up. I agree a low voltage could be a culprit.
Bigsalmonfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2016, 07:00 PM   #9
Veteran Member
 
djleu's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA / Waterford, CT
Country: US
Vessel Name: Change of Latitude
Vessel Model: 2005 GB 42 Classic
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 29
Hi there,

We have been cruising south to Tacoma and away from wifi. Now back connected. Thanks for the most thoughtful responses. We continue to have periodic puffs of white smoke. In response to each of the insights that have been shared:

1. The sound is more a pop than a bang, I think.
2. We have a water trap for the fuel. The fuel comes from our main tank and we have several Racors.
3. The fuel tanks have been half full and lower on this trip, but we have seen the smoke when they are full, too.
4. We have burped the fuel supply this summer. That solved a flameout issue but not the puffs of smoke.
5. Marcello Velonosi has been our go to person on other issues. A great guy!!!
6. The unit stops for a half second and then reignites.
7. The unit is in our laz, in the aft section of our boat. That may be a long run for power, perhaps?

My summary and thinking:

1. Perhaps low voltage is the issue? Would this be caused by a voltage drop? If so, how would one test for the problem when we only see the smoke every several hours?

2. We will call Marcello. He may know us by our first names by now but he is very kind and courteous. And also very smart!

I will report back as soon as I can.

Many thanks to everyone who has helped us! We'd sure like to get this solved and behind us.

Cheers,

Don
djleu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2016, 08:31 PM   #10
Guru
 
City: Full Time Cruising East Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Meridian
Vessel Model: Krogen-42
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 754
Did you have any windows open? I had problems when a wind gust blew over the flybridge and caused a low pressure on the lee side where I had a window cracked. . It sucked the flame out then the heater re-ignited.
__________________
-------------------------
Terry
Meridian
KK-42097
meridian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2016, 08:34 PM   #11
Veteran Member
 
djleu's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA / Waterford, CT
Country: US
Vessel Name: Change of Latitude
Vessel Model: 2005 GB 42 Classic
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 29
Thanks for this idea. We will watch the wind but there isn't really a window in the Laz, where the heater is. There is only the exhaust vent.

Cheers,

Don
djleu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2016, 07:32 AM   #12
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,515
That may be a long run for power, perhaps?

FLUKE and other big buck V meters have a hi - lo setting that will record the extrimes.

Borrow one and see the actual Voltage over time.

The usual hassle is starting , not during operation but???
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2016, 07:54 AM   #13
Veteran Member
 
djleu's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA / Waterford, CT
Country: US
Vessel Name: Change of Latitude
Vessel Model: 2005 GB 42 Classic
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 29
FF,
Thank you for this suggestion. I did not know that some voltage meters recorded hi and low voltage like this. Great idea! From what I am learning, a periodic low voltage drop sounds increasingly like it may be causing the infrequent short heater stop, restart, pop, and white smoke puff. And, as you point out, it is a relatively long way back for a 12-volt run. Can you tell that I am a newbie re electricals? :-)

The puff of white smoke appears during operation when the heater noise stops for a brief, split second, and then restarts. This happens periodically but the white smoke only happens on some of these events, perhaps 5% of the time.

Looks like I need to find a wealthy mechanic with an expensive voltage meter. I will investigate. Thanks, FF!!!!!

Cheers,

Don
djleu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2016, 08:54 AM   #14
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,356
Don

Have you had a pro service the unit yet? As earlier suggested there is a book protocol, especially clean the burner and replace the flame sensor. Standard stuff and is usually the first things Marcello recommends.
sunchaser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2016, 09:11 AM   #15
Veteran Member
 
djleu's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA / Waterford, CT
Country: US
Vessel Name: Change of Latitude
Vessel Model: 2005 GB 42 Classic
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 29
Thanks, Sunchaser! We have had three separate pros service the unit and we had the factory rebuild the heater because we were having a flame out issue last year. That work solved the flameout issue but we have, since, been experiencing this puff of smoke issue. We also have it serviced each year. This year, one of the techs try to solve the puff of smoke issue just before we departed on this trip and, to the best of his knowledge, he thought it was fixed. Many thanks for your note! Just sign me....

Perplexed,

Don
djleu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2016, 10:37 AM   #16
Guru
 
refugio's Avatar
 
City: Meydenbauer Bay Yacht Club
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Refugio
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,141
I have a 10+ year old C045 with about 1700 hours. The only recurring issue I've had was supplying fuel, but a completely redone fuel system a couple of years ago cured that. This year I had a repeated flameout issue, but a new sensor resolved that and it's been rock solid this winter.

If you've had it serviced then they SHOULD have checked for voltage under load. And the condition of all of the parts (at least those that can be checked).

So...if this is a running issue...and there are no failing parts...then it's really just a matter of air (intake, exhaust), fuel (which you say you've solved), and...12VDC power.

I'm betting the servicing was done at the dock, on shore power and a charger.

But it appears that your issues are away from the dock...at anchor?...possibly without 120VAC power...and likely with other DC loads on.

I'm about 95% that it has to be power. Note that the registers are also powered from the Hurricane control panel - if one of THEM is slowing down...motor wearing out...maybe an air pressure issue...then that could contribute.

You've apparently got a bunch of hours into trying to figure this out. My next step would be to upgrade the 12VDC wiring (including ground return). And make sure there are no extra devices vampired on to this circuit.
refugio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2016, 10:59 AM   #17
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,356
Don

If I understand, the problem started after you reinstalled the unit following a factory visit. Two things then, installation created an issue or the rebuild.


Paralleling Refugio's valid points, 6 things:
  1. Any fault codes showing up?
  2. Are you 100% sure of the fuel supply line and pickup point? Get a jerry can and feed the system that way, as a test.
  3. Run a different 12V line and ground wire as a test from a safe 12V source.
  4. How many hours on the fuel pump?
  5. Did the tech clean the burner tip with you watching?
  6. Has the flame sensor been replaced?
Good sleuthing story, thanks for sharing.
sunchaser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2016, 04:19 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
MartySchwartz's Avatar
 
City: Poulsbo, WA
Vessel Name: M/V Knot Knormal
Vessel Model: President 41
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 236
My CO45 furnace (~7900 hours) has displayed the same behavior for the past several years. It usually occurs when the filter has not been replaced recently or there is some other fuel-related issue. If there is a flame-out the furnace attempts to restart, if successful there will be a "puff" of white smoke like you describe. If it fails to restart it will throw the "Run Flameout" error and shut down. 99.9% of the time I can bleed the fuel line and the furnace will go back into service.

I discussed it with my local Hurricane expert (he is in Bremerton and I can give you his number if you want) and it seems that he sees this fairly often (especially when people get lazy like me and don't replace the filter annually) and says that because there is no return line connected air that is pulled out of the fuel collects in the air trap until the flame out issues start. I am thinking of adding a return line and leaving the bleed valve cracked so the fuel pump can constantly bleed the fuel line back to the tank.

I will be very interested in what you determine the root cause of your issue to be.

Marty....................
MartySchwartz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2016, 04:43 PM   #19
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartySchwartz View Post
I am thinking of adding a return line and leaving the bleed valve cracked so the fuel pump can constantly bleed the fuel line back to the tank. Marty....................
Marty

My Hurricane has a fuel return line. I thought they all did, silly me. What does the book installation call for? My book is 1500 miles away.

Also, my normal fuel level is about a foot above the pump. Not sure if a non flooded suction would work as well.
sunchaser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2016, 05:09 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
MartySchwartz's Avatar
 
City: Poulsbo, WA
Vessel Name: M/V Knot Knormal
Vessel Model: President 41
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Marty

My Hurricane has a fuel return line. I thought they all did, silly me. What does the book installation call for? My book is 1500 miles away.

Also, my normal fuel level is about a foot above the pump. Not sure if a non flooded suction would work as well.
If I remember correctly the manual says you can install one if you want but it is not really necessary. I am beginning to think it IS necessary for mine so I don't have to clime in the engine room every 3-4 weeks to bleed the silly thing.

Marty.........................
__________________

MartySchwartz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012