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Old 10-03-2014, 02:34 PM   #21
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Greetings,
Mr. PM. I would be concerned with the check valve getting stuck either with some sort of corrosion or debris from the bilge and malfunctioning. The LAST thing I'd want is a "clogged" exhaust line from the pump. These sort of "problems" always seem to happen at the worst possible time so totally unrestricted hose for me. As mentioned, a bit of water in the bilge is acceptable.
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:39 PM   #22
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Thanks RT , I wasn't sure if it was a good idea or not . I can live with a little funky water in the bilge.
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:54 PM   #23
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I was think about putting a check valve after my pump to keep the little bit of water from draining back after the pump shuts off . Has anyone here ever done that ?
Check valve on standard centrifugal bilge pump is a bad idea. If the check valve gets held closed by a standing head of water in the discharge line, it may not open on a subsequent start. Since the bilge won't empty, the pump will run until the battery is dead or the motor burns up.
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:59 PM   #24
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Hey fellas, I was told my shaft seal was to have a drip. Ford Leman engines X 2. I think the mechanic told me about 1-2 every 4 sec or so when in use. Any thoughts? No rude thoughts! This could go south fast.
That drip rate seems extremely high to me. I have always heard numbers like one drip every 30 seconds to a minute.

The critical item is not the drip rate but the temperature of the shaft log. The drip rate should be as low as possible while keeping the shaft log cool or at least not hot.

I've always been able to adjust our packing glands (flax packed) so they don't drip at all but the glands remain cold underway. There is a sheen of water around the shaft where it enters the packing gland but no dripping.

However, our vintage of GB36 has two cutless bearings in each shaft log and a cooling water feed from each log's respective engine because of this. So it's possible to run the shaft logs cold with no drip. Other setups can require a drip.
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Old 10-03-2014, 04:13 PM   #25
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I was think about putting a check valve after my pump to keep the little bit of water from draining back after the pump shuts off . Has anyone here ever done that ?
Yup. We have a check valve. The pump is in a small sump. With out the check valve, the water that is contain in the hose, when the pump shuts off drains back into the sump and trips the pump switch again. We end up with a continues cycle. It's an easy maintenance item plus we added another float switch up higher to an alarm if the check valve fails shut.
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Old 10-03-2014, 04:51 PM   #26
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Larry,
If your check valve malfunctions and the alarm is triggered it may be too late to address the situation. I suggest you raise the float switch a bit. Perhaps a piece or two of Starboard under the switch mount to raise the unit some. Then remove the check valve. Just a suggestion. Howard
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Old 10-03-2014, 05:38 PM   #27
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If I have the right label for this piece of equipment, it is the stuffing box (maybe). It is where the "shaft" comes from the Transmission to a what ever is where the water drips from. Before I left the boat, I tightened the bolts to stop the dripping, placed a note on the throttle to loosen the bolts prior to starting he engines. Sorry for not having a knowledge of the mechanical items. If someone would correct me it would help. TONTO
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Old 10-03-2014, 05:40 PM   #28
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Larry,
If your check valve malfunctions and the alarm is triggered it may be too late to address the situation. I suggest you raise the float switch a bit. Perhaps a piece or two of Starboard under the switch mount to raise the unit some. Then remove the check valve. Just a suggestion. Howard
Your right the check valve could fail but some are more reliable that others. I'm using a Groco PNC series that opens at 0.5 psi. No rubber to deteriorate and easily tested/inspected. We've looked at reducing the discharge hose size, adding 2 switches, we can't enlarge the sump. Believe me, If I had a choice, I wouldn't use one, but thanks for the idea.


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Old 10-03-2014, 06:35 PM   #29
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If I have the right label for this piece of equipment, it is the stuffing box (maybe). It is where the "shaft" comes from the Transmission to a what ever is where the water drips from. Before I left the boat, I tightened the bolts to stop the dripping, placed a note on the throttle to loosen the bolts prior to starting he engines.
At the risk of telling you what you may already know, here is my understanding of the setup.

On a conventional system, the shaft passes through a tube or "log" that penetrates the hull of the boat. There is at least one cutless bearing (a hard, rubber-like collar with longitudinal grooves in its inner surface) centering and supporting the shaft inside the shaft log. This bearing is lubed and cooled by the seawater inside the tube.

Obviously, the log has to be sealed at the engine room end to keep the water from simply pouring in around the shaft. So there is a packing gland at the engine room end of the log that contains a sealing material--- originally flax, but there are newer synthetic sealing materials on the market if one chooses to use them-- that is mashed down around the shaft and against the inside surface of the packing gland.

The mashing is done by the packing nut, which is generally the forward of the two nuts on the packing gland. Tightening this nut compresses the packing material which in turn reduces the amount of water that can leak past the shaft and into the boat.

The nut behind the packing nut is the lock nut. When run forward and tightened against the packing nut, it locks the packing nut in place.

If the packing material is mashed down too tight, it can restrict the passage of water through the packing gland (the drip) and this and the friction of the packing material jammed hard against the spinning shaft can cause the packing gland and shaft to overheat, which can damage the gland and the shaft.

It's a trial and error process to get the packing nut adjusted correctly. Backed off too far and you get too much water coming through into the boat. Tightened down too much, and you get an overheated gland and shaft.

The trial and error adjustment has to be done with the shaft spinning, ideally with the boat underway.

Once the packing nut has been adjusted to the best compromise between cooling and dripping, the lock nut behind the packing nut is run up against the rear face of the packing nut and the two are tightened against each other. Then make one more check of the shaft log temperature to make sure it's still what you want, and that's it.

The above description applies to the basic, conventional packing gland system. There variations on this system, and there are the so-called dripless systems which use a different principle entirely (as I understand it).

Our boat has conventional packing glands but with cooling water feeds from the associated engine.
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:44 PM   #30
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My bilge's are bone dry, and dusty would be a more accurate description.

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Old 10-03-2014, 08:05 PM   #31
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Volvo Shaft Seal (Drift)

Conventional shaft seals are likely to drip. Most bilges get some watering. It`s when the water intrusion changes you need to start sleuthing.
A while back I started a thread for info/experience about Volvo shaft seals, with zero response. This seems as good a place as any to ask again. My limited research suggests they are more trouble free than PSS but need the shaft in A1 condition.
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Old 10-03-2014, 09:02 PM   #32
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It is also possible the pump was turned off at the electrical panel.
I don't know why anyone would turn off the number one piece of safety equipment on a boat. Maybe working on on it I guess. Lots of great advice her. I do believe after all the feed back that 4-5 inches in the bilge shows an issue. 16 more months to go. I am more informed now

Cheers.

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Old 10-03-2014, 09:57 PM   #33
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Shop vac it. Towel dry. Lay blue paper towels down. See where the issue is.

Knowledge is what is needed to make an informed decision. Some water is a problem, some not so much. Depends.............(will absorb the extra moisture).
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Old 10-03-2014, 10:22 PM   #34
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IMHO

Water in the bilge signifies an issue needing attention. Other than packing leaking any sign of water should be deLt with or at least well understood as to source.

A cockpit does not have to leak, accepting it is a matter of choice but water getting into FRP composites is not good. Steel even worse if water leaking into cockpit innards, especially salt water.
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Old 10-04-2014, 06:12 AM   #35
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My boar was a USN launch with a 6-71 that has a canister oil filter that needs a pail to drain into at oil change time.

30 years of kids not bothering left a slick that after a decade is still not gone.

I leave 3-6 inches in the bilge and a cup or two of Simple Green soap , in the hope that someday it will finally be clean.
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Old 10-04-2014, 06:44 AM   #36
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One way to minimize the back-flow when the bilge pump shuts off (rather than using a check valve) is to pipe the discharge hose straight up above the waterline, tee in a siphon breaker, then pipe at a slight downward slope to your through-hull fitting.
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Old 10-04-2014, 08:09 AM   #37
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Both trawlers I have owned Camano 31 2004-8 and this Monk 36 2008-present have had Tides dripless lip seals, zero water in the bilge, not a drip or drop. When I find any water I know there is a problem somewhere: freshwater pump started leaking, or the shower pump went out and the sump overflowed, something like that. The seal on the Camano started a very slow drip after I owned it for about 3 years I changed it, the boat would have been 5 yrs old then. The Monk is a 2003 I changed the seal in 2012, another slow drip, there was an old seal on board so I know a previous owner had changed one before.
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Old 10-04-2014, 01:01 PM   #38
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My boat has check valves in the bilge pump lines, and my surveyor noted that they violate the "rules" and need to be removed and replaced with "loops" instead to prevent siphoning back into the bilge. I have such a small rear bilge that when the water drains back into the bilge after the pump shuts down it almost turns it back on again. I am considering simply lengthening, resizing, or shortening the hose to get rid of that issue as well as to remove the check valves. IF you drain your shower to the bilge, you need to consider straining out the hair and debris from the shower before it hits the bilge pump or it will clog it up. Check valves would be very prone to clogging from shower debris (hair mostly). My shower box works perfectly...
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Old 10-04-2014, 02:25 PM   #39
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When I bought my boat, it had 4-5 inches and it was determined the bilge pump wasn't working. It is also possible the pump was turned off at the electrical panel.

This is something the surveyor would address and typically the seller is asked to address it as a condition of sale,
It's probably not such a good idea to have a switch on the bilge pump at the panel. Best practices would have a three way switch somewhere out of the way where it won't be inadvertently switched off. Separately fused and wired directly
To a good battery so that when every other thing is turned off-off-off your bilge pump will still come on.
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Old 10-04-2014, 03:33 PM   #40
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My bilge pump/switch is the only thing with a direct to battery connection. There is a breaker on the panel that will turn on the pump without the switch being activated. That breaker has a guard so it doesn't get moved by helpful guests. I kind of have a feel for how much discharge is normal when I flip the breaker on. This also serves to test the pump - easily.

I wonder how much water gets to my bilge via the discharge through-hull. It is lower than the rub-rail. Lake Michigan puts a lot of on the deck at times, so the discharge is surely getting submerged. It is high enough that it does not siphon.
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