Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-02-2014, 06:55 PM   #1
Member
 
City: New city
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 24
Cool Hot water heater leaks

Hi, my hot water heater is leaking engine coolant.
The leak is inside the box not the hoses connected to the engine.
It is a Seaward S1200 model. Is there apart that can be replaced or must I buy an entire unit?
Thanks,
Don
Take It E-Sea
Monk 36
#240
__________________
Advertisement

Takeitesea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 07:08 PM   #2
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,994
Greetings,
Mr. T. I suggest you replace the engine coolant with rum.
__________________

__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 07:10 PM   #3
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Replace it and the coolant, also flush the fresh water system out, coolant can be deadly.
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 07:44 PM   #4
Member
 
City: New city
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 24
Unhappy Hot water heater leaks

Thanks guys,

I had a feeling I would have to replace the heater and then have some rum!!
Don
Take It E-Sea
Takeitesea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 07:52 PM   #5
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeitesea View Post
Hi, my hot water heater is leaking engine coolant.
The leak is inside the box not the hoses connected to the engine.
It is a Seaward S1200 model. Is there apart that can be replaced or must I buy an entire unit?
Thanks,
Don
Take It E-Sea
Monk 36
#240
Don, when you reinstall, consider putting in a small expansion tank on both the engine loop that contains coolant and also on the cold water side of the fresh water supply if they aren't already there. Tanks can also fall apart because of corrosion, especially with ship's ground and shore ground differentials, so one other thing you also can do is to install a dual pole switch to disconnect both the hot and the neutral when not in use. You can do this through a simple two pole relay for about $30.

I just had to replace my (expensive) Solaris water heater after six years. It was installed without an expansion tank, and while the pressure relief valve should have handled the heat expansion of the water as it heats, something went wrong and it started to leak. Hence, my advice to install the expansion tanks.
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 09:57 PM   #6
Guru
 
City: Venice Louisiana
Country: United States
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,097
I like rum but would not use it as engine coolant. It tends to gum things up when heated. Same with most types of whisky, canadian especially. Vodca might be ok or everclear. When the leak gets big enough you may have problems getting out of the shower.
kulas44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 06:58 AM   #7
Guru


 
City: Full-time onboard
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 937
Have you ever used one of those coolant flushing solutions in your engine to clean the gunk out of the coolers?
Jeffrey S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 08:02 AM   #8
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeitesea View Post
Hi, my hot water heater is leaking ..........
Why would you need to heat hot water?
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 10:33 AM   #9
Guru
 
bligh's Avatar
 
City: Santa Cruz, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Frisky
Vessel Model: 99 Nordic Tug
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
Don, when you reinstall, consider putting in a small expansion tank on both the engine loop that contains coolant .
What is your reasoning behind this expansion tank? What is typical coolant pressure?
bligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 11:08 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Boydski's Avatar
 
City: Olympia, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sea Eagle
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
Don, when you reinstall, consider putting in a small expansion tank on both the engine loop that contains coolant and also on the cold water side of the fresh water supply
I'm curious about the expansion tank on the coolant loop. Don't most marine engines have a fairly large expansion tank built in? I know the Lugger 1066 in my boat has a big one that should always have an air gap in the top (your finger should just be able to touch the coolant).

I recently had to replace my hot water heater for the opposite problem that Don had. I was getting fresh water from the heater into the coolant loop of the engine (so I found coolant all over the floor of the engine room).

In my case it was really caused by too much city water pressure being applied to the fresh water system by the PO.
__________________
Scott (Boydski) Boyd
Yes Please, Grand Banks Eastbay
Sea Eagle, Nordhavn 47 (sold)
Boydski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 11:47 AM   #11
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by bligh View Post
What is your reasoning behind this expansion tank? What is typical coolant pressure?
It's pretty low, and you can certainly argue that the coolant tank and pressure relief cap will handle expansion, but only if there is a direct flow of engine coolant through the water heater. If an exchanger is used to transfer coolant temperature to a coolant loop through the water heater, without an expansion tank all the expansion will go to the loops which can cause premature failure. If an engine mounted exchanger is used, the expansion tank should be considered essential, IMO. If not, the tank is simply a cheap $65 backup, so why not?

Personally, I don't much care for extending the engine coolant loop directly through the water heater, since overheating on most diesels (especially my CAT) is pretty destructive and you expose yourself to coolant loss due to an unrelated failure inside the water heater, as the OP experienced.
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 11:55 AM   #12
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boydski View Post
I'm curious about the expansion tank on the coolant loop. Don't most marine engines have a fairly large expansion tank built in? I know the Lugger 1066 in my boat has a big one that should always have an air gap in the top (your finger should just be able to touch the coolant).

I recently had to replace my hot water heater for the opposite problem that Don had. I was getting fresh water from the heater into the coolant loop of the engine (so I found coolant all over the floor of the engine room).

In my case it was really caused by too much city water pressure being applied to the fresh water system by the PO.
Does the coolant in the engine flow through a heat exchanger that transfers heat to a separate loop through the water heater? If so, you have no expansion tank on the system and might want to think about installing one. With the problem you experienced, it sounds like a hole in the coolant loop through the heater forced fresh water directly into the coolant of the engine, which would suggest you don't have an engine mounted exchanger, so other than exposure to a water tank failure causing engine overheating, you're correct, the coolant tank on the engine probably is sufficient.
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 11:57 AM   #13
Guru
 
bligh's Avatar
 
City: Santa Cruz, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Frisky
Vessel Model: 99 Nordic Tug
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
It's pretty low, and you can certainly argue that the coolant tank and pressure relief cap will handle expansion, but only if there is a direct flow of engine coolant through the water heater. If an exchanger is used to transfer coolant temperature to a coolant loop through the water heater, without an expansion tank all the expansion will go to the loops which can cause premature failure. If an engine mounted exchanger is used, the expansion tank should be considered essential, IMO. If not, the tank is simply a cheap $65 backup, so why not?

Personally, I don't much care for extending the engine coolant loop directly through the water heater, since overheating on most diesels (especially my CAT) is pretty destructive and you expose yourself to coolant loss due to an unrelated failure inside the water heater, as the OP experienced.
So let me get this straight. You have a heat exchanger on your engine that transfers heat from your engine coolant to another coolant loop that runs through the heat exchanger on your water heater. Am I understanding this correctly?
bligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 11:59 AM   #14
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post

Why would you need to heat hot water?
So you can recreationally trawl, silly.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 12:06 PM   #15
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by bligh View Post

So let me get this straight. You have a heat exchanger on your engine that transfers heat from your engine coolant to another coolant loop that runs through the heat exchanger on your water heater. Am I understanding this correctly?
Thus is my plan as well. I have a plate heat exchanger in my shed for this reason.

VP recommends adding an expansion tank in the coolant system if a parasitical heating load is placed upon the system. It adds volume to a system that was designed with only the engine cooling requirements.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 12:06 PM   #16
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by bligh View Post
So let me get this straight. You have a heat exchanger on your engine that transfers heat from your engine coolant to another coolant loop that runs through the heat exchanger on your water heater. Am I understanding this correctly?
Well, yes. Like this one: SK UNI302631CN Heat Exchanger Universal / Medalist by Seakamp Engineering

As I said, if you are comfortable having a failure in your$500 hot water tank affect the cooling and longevity of your $40,000 diesel, have at it.

Got it straight yet?
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 12:07 PM   #17
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
Thus is my plan as well. I have a plate heat exchanger in my shed for this reason.

VP recommends adding an expansion tank in the coolant system if a parasitical heating load is placed upon the system. It adds volume to a system that was designed with only the engine cooling requirements.
Bingo.
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 12:11 PM   #18
Guru
 
City: Venice Louisiana
Country: United States
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,097
I have not seen that. On all the water heaters I've worked on or replaced, if they had a provision for engine coolant heat transfer it was a simple loop thru the water heater. Another loop would require a pump to move the fluid thru the heater and another expansion tank. No need for a seperate expansion tank on the engine side. An expansion tank is a good idea on the house water side. The biggest problem with these type of water heaters is excess heat from the engine. 190 is a bit hot, you need to be carefull when you turn the water on in the shower. Maybe the double exchanger is required for trawling recreationally. I dont know but the next time I stay at a Holiday Inn Express I will find out.
kulas44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 12:23 PM   #19
Guru
 
City: Venice Louisiana
Country: United States
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,097
After a few moments of thought, the use of another heat exchanger and a small thermostatically controlled pump could aleviate the dangerously high water temps caused by the engine coolant. Seams to be complicating an otherwise simple system, but I can see the benifits. I would think that a mechanical thermostat similar to the one in your engine, controlled by water heater temp would be simpler. I have not seen any engine failures due to a faulty water heater, but it "could" happen. I also have never been hit by a meteor, but it could happen. What I wont do is lose any sleep or spend any time or money trying to avoid meteors.
kulas44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 12:24 PM   #20
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulas44 View Post
I have not seen that. On all the water heaters I've worked on or replaced, if they had a provision for engine coolant heat transfer it was a simple loop thru the water heater. Another loop would require a pump to move the fluid thru the heater and another expansion tank. No need for a seperate expansion tank on the engine side. An expansion tank is a good idea on the house water side. The biggest problem with these type of water heaters is excess heat from the engine. 190 is a bit hot, you need to be carefull when you turn the water on in the shower. Maybe the double exchanger is required for trawling recreationally. I dont know but the next time I stay at a Holiday Inn Express I will find out.
A separate pump isn't really needed, as convection does fine. In fact, in the 40 odd acres of greenhouse I built and operated, the hydronic systems we installed needed electric shut off valves to interrupt the convection, otherwise you were always circulating hot water from the boiler. Most water tanks come with a mixing valve option - the Isotemp I just installed had one, as did the Solaris it replaced, so too much heat isn't really a problem.

I think the main argument for not simply extending the engine coolant directly through the hot water tank is introducing another failure point for an engine critical system.
__________________

__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012