Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-03-2014, 11:41 PM   #61
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulas44 View Post
I'm calling BS on this. On a boat anyway. You will not move enough energy (heat) along a 12 foot length of hose in static (nonmoving) coolant to affect any useable heat transfer. Not gonna happen. And yes I do understand convection but you just cant move that much energy thru water to do the job required. Possibly if you had 190 degrees at the source for 12 hours you could affect a modest heat transfer to the house water. I still dont know why you would go this route, except for avoiding meteors. Disclaimer, I have been wrong before, even once today. The debate is enjoyable !!!
As has been patiently explained to you by more than one person with first hand experience, if the heat source is below the water you are trying to heat, it would take a suspension of the laws of physics for the water not to move from hot to cold. And if hot moves to cold, then cold will move down back to hot cause it doesn't have anyplace else to go. Keep that going for a half hour or so and take a shower. But believe in whatever laws of physics you like. Fine by me.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 11:43 PM   #62
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulas44 View Post
I'm calling BS on this. On a boat anyway. You will not move enough energy (heat) along a 12 foot length of hose in static (nonmoving) coolant to affect any useable heat transfer. Not gonna happen. And yes I do understand convection but you just cant move that much energy thru water to do the job required. Possibly if you had 190 degrees at the source for 12 hours you could affect a modest heat transfer to the house water. I still dont know why you would go this route, except for avoiding meteors. Disclaimer, I have been wrong before, even once today. The debate is enjoyable !!!
The water in the loop IS MOVING due to the thermosiphon.. the heat is exchanged to the water in the Storage tank ( water heater ).. if the two sides equalize in temp the water in the return line may slow.. but will start moving again when the storage temp drops..
see below..
HOLLYWOOD


__________________

hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 11:53 PM   #63
Guru
 
City: Venice Louisiana
Country: United States
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,097
A solid copper rod well insulated MAY move enough energy to do this job. Coolant will not. Glycol by its nature is a poor conductor. Water is not much better. One shower maybe, 2 is questionable and no hot water for dishes. I hope you will pardon me for being argumentative, but I am usually out on a boat in the Gulf with (believe it or not) people that dont give a rats a$$ about this stuff. When I'm home I get the chance to exchange with intelligent folks like you'all. And, I know everything. Which can be modified by those that actually do. Still looking for modification.
kulas44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 12:07 AM   #64
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,670
http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/Manua...ual-2011-2.pdf

Page 19 and 20.

http://mragheb.com/Nuclear_naval_propulsion.pdf

Page 9 and 10.

First hand experience in both.
Northern Spy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 12:48 AM   #65
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulas44 View Post
A solid copper rod well insulated MAY move enough energy to do this job. Coolant will not. Glycol by its nature is a poor conductor. Water is not much better. One shower maybe, 2 is questionable and no hot water for dishes. I hope you will pardon me for being argumentative, but I am usually out on a boat in the Gulf with (believe it or not) people that dont give a rats a$$ about this stuff. When I'm home I get the chance to exchange with intelligent folks like you'all. And, I know everything. Which can be modified by those that actually do. Still looking for modification.
read this....

Thermosiphon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

we didn't make this crap up!
similar principal to a hot air balloon..

HOLLYWOOD
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 12:56 AM   #66
Guru
 
bligh's Avatar
 
City: Santa Cruz, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Frisky
Vessel Model: 99 Nordic Tug
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,097
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulas44 View Post
A solid copper rod well insulated MAY move enough energy to do this job. Coolant will not. Glycol by its nature is a poor conductor. Water is not much better. One shower maybe, 2 is questionable and no hot water for dishes. I hope you will pardon me for being argumentative, but I am usually out on a boat in the Gulf with (believe it or not) people that dont give a rats a$$ about this stuff. When I'm home I get the chance to exchange with intelligent folks like you'all. And, I know everything. Which can be modified by those that actually do. Still looking for modification.
Kulas, I think the concept you are missing is that water is actually flowing through the system. I'm sure you are aware that hot air rises and cold air will fall. The same is true for hot and cold water. Hot water will rise while colder , denser water will fall. Sooo, if you have two water tanks one above the other and the upper one is full of hot water and the lower one is full of cold water and they are connected with two parallel pipes, the colder, denser, heavier water will migrate to the lower tank, while the hot water will rise to the upper tank. This is the concept delphin claims he is using. I , too, have designed and implemented systems like this in a non marine environment and they work fine and are dead nuts reliable as you dont have any equipment to maintain.
Before you call BS again, please sleep on it or do some more research.
bligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 02:25 AM   #67
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
FWIW, our starboard engine (FL120) is plumbed via hoses directly to the stainless, 10-gallon Atlantic Marine water heater in the aft head which is on the other side of the engine room's aft bulkhead. The aft head is in the aft cabin which in a tri-cabin GB is right down in the bottom of the boat, so the water heater is more or less level with the engine.

There is no expansion tank, additional heat exchanger, etc. Coolant comes out of the engine, goes to the coolant inlet fitting on the water heater, circulates in whatever tube arrangement is inside it, comes out the coolant outflow fitting on the water heater, and travels via hose back to the engine.

Regarding the OP's leak, one potential cause of a leak developing could be a sagging shelf supporting the water heater, if it sits on a shelf. This happened to us with the relatively new water heater that was in the boat when we acquired it. The shelf in the outboard head cabinet was not designed or built to support anything near this weight, and after a few years the main support (wood) running under the shelf cracked and allowed the shelf to sag and twist. This in turn put a torsional load on the rectangular water heater. Unfortunately none of this was apparent from simply opening the cabinet.

While we have no way of knowing this, we suspect that this twisting of the water heater eventually caused a seam to start to leak.

We replaced the water heater with the same make and model, but before installing it I built a completely new shelf with an aluminum angle extrusion supporting the length of the shelf and cross-bracing tied into supports I glassed to the inside of the hull. We did this some eight or nine years ago, and we're hoping this very solid base under the replacement water heater will help extend the longevity of the unit.

So far, so good.....
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 09:00 AM   #68
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Why not just move the water heater closer to the engine if that long run bothers you?

You've heard of the KISS principle, right?
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 09:20 AM   #69
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeitesea View Post
Hi, my hot water heater is leaking engine coolant.
It is a Seaward S1200 model. Thanks,
Don
Take It E-Sea
Monk 36
#240
My experience is Seawards are less than the best. Maybe switch brands. My 20 gallon rotted out, lightly used, 10 year old Seaward cube was replaced with a 17 gallon Torrid cylinder with a pretty good footprint reduction.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 09:28 AM   #70
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
Where can one order the electro magnetic gun referenced in the Nuclear article? I could sure use it to make the modifications someone on this thread is waiting for.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 10:16 AM   #71
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
One question. Instead of natural circulation of water for propulsion in the S5G and S8G why didn't they just use a solid copper rod? Hmmm, smart guy?
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 10:18 AM   #72
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Why not just move the water heater closer to the engine if that long run bothers you?

You've heard of the KISS principle, right?
Brilliant.
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 03:52 PM   #73
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post

Where can one order the electro magnetic gun referenced in the Nuclear article? I could sure use it to make the modifications someone on this thread is waiting for.
You know, I didn't actually read it all. I just googled S5G. I'll have to go back and read it.
Northern Spy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 03:54 PM   #74
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
One question. Instead of natural circulation of water for propulsion in the S5G and S8G why didn't they just use a solid copper rod? Hmmm, smart guy?
I can neither confirm or deny the use of solid copper rod technology in modern submarine reactor primary coolant loops.
Northern Spy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 04:21 PM   #75
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
I can neither confirm or deny the use of solid copper rod technology in modern submarine reactor primary coolant loops.
That's why we invented water boarding.
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 05:45 AM   #76
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,531
That's why we invented water boarding. __________________

Actually a Coke sprayed in the nose is far more effective (and painful) than just water.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 10:28 AM   #77
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
That's why we invented water boarding. __________________

Actually a Coke sprayed in the nose is far more effective (and painful) than just water.
Let that be a warning to you, Spy.
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2014, 11:00 AM   #78
Veteran Member
 
City: Long Beach, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Peterpan 111
Vessel Model: Gulfstar
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 26
Seaward will sell you the tank only. It'll save you some money. Call Seaward.
__________________

Joew2604 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012