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Old 07-11-2011, 09:30 PM   #21
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RE: Holding tank vent line

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2bucks wrote:
You're a bad man motion30. (big smile)
* actually I am serious* that dam small vent filter why needed** causes my head not to flush well* and the charcoal is fresh
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Old 07-12-2011, 06:46 AM   #22
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RE: Holding tank vent line

Deep six the filter, not needed. Peggie might tell you what to do with it but it could be painful.
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Old 07-12-2011, 07:31 AM   #23
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RE: Holding tank vent line

Sorry motion, Peggie rants against any kind of filter on a regular basis. I thought you were asking tongue in cheek.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:25 AM   #24
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RE: Holding tank vent line

Peggy is right to rant against filters on the vent line, They are a band aide and do nothing to deal with the smell inside the system which can eventually permeate the vessel. I have a live aboard friend who has lost his sense of smell, his visitors are few.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:39 AM   #25
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RE: Holding tank vent line

Well if I dump the filter I will no longer be able to raft with my friends on the weekend The filter really kills the smell I would love to be able to bring the vent line up to the fb and vent on top of the mast but surely no room for that
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:04 AM   #26
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RE: Holding tank vent line

Quote:
motion30 wrote:The filter really kills the smell I would love to be able to bring the vent line up to the fb and vent on top of the mast but surely no room for that
*I see that Sealand sells a 1.5 inch filter. Install that somewhere accessible and run the largest tubing you can to the top of the mast and you should be good. A filter that size will take a while to clog.

Either that or take a length of PVC pipe as large as you like with a*threaded connector on one end and tubing fittings on each end so that you can refill it with charcoal or one of the other sewage filter media available online*and install that in the vent line. You just need sufficient volume of medium so that it won't clog up too rapidly. Being able to refill from bulk will save a fortune in media as well.

Think outside the Westmarine box ...

Surely you have room to run a 1/2 or 3/4 tube? If nothing else run*a hard pipe*external to the mast and mount it so it looks like it has always been there to serve some exotic maritime purpose.

Except for the fact that those tiny little filters are prone to clog very quickly, I can't imagine why anyone would object to having a vent filter installed. Most larger yachts have them as well as tank vent fans.*There is no reason any boat has to smell like a sewage treatment plant.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:05 AM   #27
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RE: Holding tank vent line

FWIW, last year I followed Peggy's advice.* Replaced the clogged 1/2" vent pipe with a 1.5" pipe.* Flushed the tank and charged it with the aerobic bacteria in the Raritan K.O. product.

Problem (enough stink to gag a maggot) solved!
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:10 AM   #28
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RE: Holding tank vent line

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*I have never seen the 1.5'' filter* I have modified the small filter so I can recharge it I was thinking about making a 1.5'' one* all the need parts can be purchased at home depot and the pet store

*

*

*

*RickB wrote:
motion30 wrote:The filter really kills the smell I would love to be able to bring the vent line up to the fb and vent on top of the mast but surely no room for that
*I see that Sealand sells a 1.5 inch filter. Install that somewhere accessible and run the largest tubing you can to the top of the mast and you should be good. A filter that size will take a while to clog.

Either that or take a length of PVC pipe as large as you like with a*threaded connector on one end and tubing fittings on each end so that you can refill it with charcoal or one of the other sewage filter media available online*and install that in the vent line. You just need sufficient volume of medium so that it won't clog up too rapidly. Being able to refill from bulk will save a fortune in media as well.

Think outside the Westmarine box ...

Surely you have room to run a 1/2 or 3/4 tube? If nothing else run*a hard pipe*external to the mast and mount it so it looks like it has always been there to serve some exotic maritime purpose.

Except for the fact that those tiny little filters are prone to clog very quickly, I can't imagine why anyone would object to having a vent filter installed. Most larger yachts have them as well as tank vent fans.*There is no reason any boat has to smell like a sewage treatment plant.

*
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Old 07-24-2011, 06:41 PM   #29
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RE: Holding tank vent line

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RickB wrote:
Delphin is absolutely correct on this one.*Blackwater treatment systems manufacturers*call for a vent line as high as possible and the literature for the type and size of systems installed on most smaller recreational boats makes no reference to vent filters or vent lines and fittings larger than 3/4 inch.
-- Edited by RickB on Wednesday 29th of June 2011 08:18:21 AM
*Interestingly, I just spent two weeks fighting this problem on a small cruise ship I sailed on as Chief Engineer.* As soon as I came aboard I noticed a really BAD smell.* The departing Chief told me he had been trying to solve the problem for a couple weeks with no success.* Clearly, there was a leak in the vent system, but where?* Sadly, it was at it's worst in the dining room of all places.* The first night I got up at midnight and pulled down lots of celing tiles but found nothing.* I traced the vent line from the tank, all the way to the top of the mast (35 feet up) and found no leaks.* Finally, someone mentioned the smell seemed to be coming from the AC vents.* What I found was the AC condensate drain had been connected directly to a tank vent.* When the departing Chief had replaced the air filters in front of the condensers, he used a thicker filter that in turn created a vacume on the drain line, sucking the yucky stuff into the vents.* I disconnected the drains and all seemed well, but the Captain was still quite nervous and wanted to make sure it was fixed.* So, when we docked at the next town, I got a smoke generator from the local fire department, and blew smoke down the vent line.* Since I had reconnected the drain line prior to the test, it quickly proved my theory correct when the smoke came billowing out of the AC vents in the dining room. Problem solved.* Oh yea, the escaping gas still stinks, but since the vent is at the top of the mast, no one ever notices...............Arctic Traveller *
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Old 07-24-2011, 07:13 PM   #30
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RE: Holding tank vent line

One doesn't install a filter. If the larger vent line can't supply enough air exchange, an aeration system is the best solution...the Groco Sweetank system costs about the same amount as 3 filters.

http://www.groco.net/SVC-MAN-07/Sec1/pdfs/STK.pdf
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Old 07-24-2011, 07:25 PM   #31
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RE: Holding tank vent line

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RickB wrote:Except for the fact that those tiny little filters are prone to clog very quickly, I can't imagine why anyone would object to having a vent filter installed.
I just wish I'd invented something that creates the very problem it's sold to solve...'cuz that's what a vent filter does by impeding the flow of air exchange that's needed to keep a tank aerobic.

And you're absolutely right that there is no reason any boat has to smell like a sewage treatment plant...or anything else.* But vent line filters only treat the symptom--and for a RIDICULOUS price!...they don't cure the problem.* Three of the d'd things just about pays for an aeration system that DOES cure the problem! But even that much isn't needed if the ventilation air flow through the tank can be improved enough..which it can be in most cases.

*

*
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Old 07-25-2011, 04:30 AM   #32
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RE: Holding tank vent line

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HeadMistress wrote:I just wish I'd invented something that creates the very problem it's sold to solve...'cuz that's what a vent filter does by impeding the flow of air exchange that's needed to keep a tank aerobic.
Here we go again ...* how do you expect a 1/2 or 3/4 inch vent line to provide a "flow or air exchange" between the world and the black tank?

The vent line is like a reversible express lane, it vents stink out when a head is flushed and (hopefully) it admits air when the tank is pumped out. That is all it can do. If you have disovered some new kind of gas laws or previously unknown physical phenomenon it needs to be peer reviewed and published, there's a Nobel waiting.

Ridiculous price is correct. The market for those consumer devices is a rip off in nearly every respect because of the voodoo surrounding marine sanitation. A very effective filter can be assembled from the plumbing aisle at Home Depot and filled with media available online in bulk. And I am not talking about some Florida swamp shadetree workaround, this exactly duplicates the filters sold for use on commercial vessels and large yachts.

Here is an example of one and the zeolite/carbon media that you can buy in bulk from several sources to replace inexpensively.

http://www.sweetfilter.com/
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Old 07-25-2011, 06:49 AM   #33
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RE: Holding tank vent line

Quote:
HeadMistress wrote:
One doesn't install a filter. If the larger vent line can't supply enough air exchange, an aeration system is the best solution...the Groco Sweetank system costs about the same amount as 3 filters.

http://www.groco.net/SVC-MAN-07/Sec1/pdfs/STK.pdf
* Peggy

*i just ordered your book**Get it in a week* but from what I am understanding* I need a 1.5'' vent line with no filter* Thats it* problem solved?
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:47 AM   #34
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RE: Holding tank vent line

The vent line is like a reversible express lane, it vents stink out when a head is flushed and (hopefully) it admits air when the tank is pumped out. That is all it can do..

That's NOT all it can do, when it's installed correctly.* I didn't invent anything...only learned how to apply the same laws of physics that apply to all organic matter to onboard waste management. And I learned those from biochemists and sewage treatment experts.

Here we go again ...* how do you expect a 1/2 or 3/4 inch vent line to provide a "flow or air exchange" between the world and the black tank?

I don't.* For it to work the vent line needs to be 1"--1.5" or even larger is better, but there IS a limit to the acceptable size of a hole in the side of a boat! And the line has to be straight, 5' or shorter, and rise no more than 45 degrees.

If the vent line can't meet all of those requirements, mechanical intervention--aeration or two vents with an exhaust fan in one--becomes necessary. The main impediment to making it work are builders who never give any thought to tank location...putting water tanks in the best place for a waste tank and then putting the waste tank in a location that would be just fine for water, but not for waste management.
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:49 AM   #35
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RE: Holding tank vent line

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motion30 wrote:Peggy i just ordered your book**Get it in a week* but from what I am understanding* I need a 1.5'' vent line with no filter* Thats it* problem solved?
*Maybe...maybe not. There are other factors (see my reply above this one). I'll be glad to work with you to figure out what IS needed to solve the problem.
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:17 AM   #36
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RE: Holding tank vent line

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HeadMistress wrote:motion30 wrote:Peggy i just ordered your book**Get it in a week* but from what I am understanding* I need a 1.5'' vent line with no filter* Thats it* problem solved?
*Maybe...maybe not. There are other factors (see my reply above this one). I'll be glad to work with you to figure out what IS needed to solve the problem.

That would be great** What do I need to know to get started

*

*

*

*
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:14 AM   #37
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RE: Holding tank vent line

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Old Stone wrote:Hmmmmm..............Gettin' close to being just borderline disrespectful.
It is not borderline.*It means I have zero respect for voodoo engineering and people who publish nonsense.

I am still waiting to learn how even a 1.5 inch x 4.9 vertical vertical tube is going to facilitate a simultaneous bi-directional flow of gases. The gases normally associated with stink are (except for ammonia) heavier than air.*

The only truth that has been posted here aside from my disrespect*for the claim that some kind of natural draft bi-directional flow occurs in the 1/2 or 3/4 inch vents installed on*nearly all off-the-shelf*holding tanks, is the suggestion that aeration is the best way to avoid anaerobic stink.
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:17 AM   #38
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Holding tank vent line

I am still waiting to learn how even a 1.5 inch x 4.9 vertical vertical tube is going to facilitate a simultaneous bi-directional flow of gases...

A VERTICAL tube of any size won't...I've never said it would. What part of* "short, straight, doesn't rise more than 45 degrees" didn't you understand?

I have zero respect for voodoo engineering and people who publish nonsense.

The TRUTH is, you just refuse to believe that any mere woman could know what she's talking about! :nana:

*

*

*


-- Edited by HeadMistress on Monday 25th of July 2011 11:20:52 AM
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:53 AM   #39
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RE: Holding tank vent line

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motion30 wrote:HeadMistress wrote:motion30 wrote:Peggy i just ordered your book**Get it in a week* but from what I am understanding* I need a 1.5'' vent line with no filter* Thats it* problem solved?
*Maybe...maybe not. There are other factors (see my reply above this one). I'll be glad to work with you to figure out what IS needed to solve the problem.

That would be great** What do I need to know to get started

*Send me an email.
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Old 07-25-2011, 01:14 PM   #40
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RE: Holding tank vent line

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HeadMistress wrote:The TRUTH is, you just refuse to believe that any mere woman could know what she's talking about! :nana:**
*Now who is being a silly sexist?

Prove my points wrong if you can,*convince me that*yours are *correct if you can*but don't think that playing the sexism*card*is going to get you anywhere but down the toilet. Stick to the facts if you can. You will have to work really hard to restore any credibility after that statement. It*belongs in OTDE and not here.

My*"chief mate"*is a licensed chief engineer of steam and motor vessels and has sailed*on her license on both motor and steamships*for years.*She has also*sailed as chief engineer on very large yachts. She has as many years sailing as a licensed*engineer, including maintaining marine sanitation systems, as you claim to have*talking about*heads.*

I can almost guarantee that she has more time keeping an MSD system operating correctly at sea than you have onboard a boat of any kind doing anything. When she talks about marine engineering, including sanitary systems, I listen respectfully because she earned her stripes and I have watched her work, including rebuilding the system on our own 48' trawler, a 65' converted tug, and our little 34' CHB.
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