Holding Tank Level

[Art]

An infrared temperature gun scanned over the side of the tank will detect a surface temperature change between the transition from liquid to air/gas inside the tank. Seems to work best in the morning after an overnight change in ambient temperature.

Yup! I use one. For me, I found that best time to tell is after engines have run for an hour or so; tanks are close by so their top area with vapor becomes notably warmer than lower portion with liquid. Still, I'm not always sure I'm getting accurate readings even then, and, its a pia to stop and open salon sole in midst of cruise for fuel-level check. In morning I'm suspect of readings; temps seem to have equalized. Keeping tanks topped off is always a sure way to have ample fuel... but with today's ethanol %age and fuel separation factor I'd like to not leave full tanks for too long a period. 2013 and likely 14 are reduced boat-time due to our 90yr Matriarch needing family company and care. Boat's docked 100 miles away in covered berth and great swimming areas; we go out for days each time... if near-by I'd/we'd be on her way more often for day jaunts... even with Nana’s needs.

 

[Poach]

To the whole topic of holding tanks--a guage is a great help, but is not foolproof as others have mentioned. We leave a significant margin for error--having once tried to use 95% only to have it blowing out the vent on the side of the boat--nasty!

 

[SaltyDog]

Yo, SD... Ya think that would work on aluminum gasoline tanks?!?!




Our Tolly has 2 100 gal tanks; electric gauges on salon console... they read, but I don't trust em! Transducer "rays" transmitted into/through explosive gas vapor of tank's empty portion toward top would pose no problem, I guess... eah??

I missed this earlier.

Yes I think it would work fine. The sound will travel through the solid (wall) and any liquid and read an interface at the far side of the liquid/far wall. Technically both the front side of the wall and the far side of the wall will reflect sound, but the equipment doesn't have the capability of displaying it.

Sound does not travel very well though air (gases). So what you get is a "bottom" reading at the levels with fluid and no return "bottom" signal where it is gas.

Sound is mechanical vibration. Plenty of that aboard my boat. It is safe to use OUTSIDE the tank. The sound would be safe, but the electrical power inside a tank is not safe. Very little equipment like this is intrinsically safe. I am not aware of any that is.

 

[Art]

I missed this earlier.

Yes I think it would work fine. The sound will travel through the solid (wall) and any liquid and read an interface at the far side of the liquid/far wall. Technically both the front side of the wall and the far side of the wall will reflect sound, but the equipment doesn't have the capability of displaying it.

Sound does not travel very well though air (gases). So what you get is a "bottom" reading at the levels with fluid and no return "bottom" signal where it is gas.

Sound is mechanical vibration. Plenty of that aboard my boat. It is safe to use OUTSIDE the tank. The sound would be safe, but the electrical power inside a tank is not safe. Very little equipment like this is intrinsically safe. I am not aware of any that is.

SD – TY for Reply!

Because I have never before dealt with or researched items such as placing electronically manufactured mechanical vibration sound waves into/through explosive gasoline fumes (even from outside the tank through its inside liquid or fumes to its other side) I'm a bit concerned as to its 100% safety factor (although at first blush it seems that exterior emanated sound waves, mechanically or electrically produced, through enclosed gas fumes should be perfectly OK).

Brings to mind... if this sound wave feature of accurately reading tanks' fill level can be brought to 99% +/- accuracy there may be a product niche here for sales of a well designed system that could be affixed to many type tanks for ease of level readings?? Boating world might be a good customer! Wonder why no manufacturer has entered this as a feature to new or used vessels’ tank level reads?? Anyone know why!

Just thinken out loud! lol

Happy Boating Daze - Art

 

[psneeld]

Level Transducers


Ultrasonic Level Sensor - Liquid Level Indicator - Tank Level Sensor

Transducers are available in variety of housings to suit the corrosive environments in tanks, typically PVC, Teflon, stainless steel and explosion-proof for hazardous, flammable liquids. We have had a case where a barge transportation firm requested that our stainless steel transducers were plated with 24 karat gold, to offer best corrosion resistance for the fluids they transport.

 

[RickB]

Lots of them around ...

Ultrasonic Level Indicator | Tek Tanks

 

[Art]

Thanks, guys - I've reviewed sonar fluid level web sites you provided and emailed price inquiry to one. Other dealer seems bit pricy per tank... seeing as I'd like to have all five tanks in my boat reading their true level... $400 x 5 = $2000 + shipping! Will let cha know results, if any... - Art

 

[SaltyDog]

Whoa! Don't splash the cash yet!

I am not claiming to know all the products available but I can comment on some the issues to be considered.

The transducer reads through to the other side. NOT the level. Consider it a go, no-go reading. So the transducer must be scanned in the scenario I was talking about to determine the level.

On a holding tank one might be fine with setting the transducer at a chosen height such as 85% full.

It is possible to send a signal up from the bottom of the tank to read a level, but I think most installs are going to present issues.

Lots of stuff on the market. Some even measures flow. Some read velocity through the medium to tell what product is flowing through a pipeline for example.

I'm a trawler guy. Cheap and simple - remember.

Anyone with enough $$$$ is sure to find something that would work.

I use a dowel rod with 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and full notches for fuel. I have straight down fuel filler to tanks.

A light on top of a poly tank for waste.

A valve to shut off the spare 3rd water tank until the other two are empty.

Using that old sounder you were thinking about tossing is as far as I'd take the thought aboard the Dog.

 

[Art]

Whoa! Don't splash the cash yet!

I am not claiming to know all the products available but I can comment on some the issues to be considered.

The transducer reads through to the other side. NOT the level. Consider it a go, no-go reading. So the transducer must be scanned in the scenario I was talking about to determine the level.

On a holding tank one might be fine with setting the transducer at a chosen height such as 85% full.

It is possible to send a signal up from the bottom of the tank to read a level, but I think most installs are going to present issues.

Lots of stuff on the market. Some even measures flow. Some read velocity through the especially medium to tell what product is flowing through a pipeline for example.

I'm a trawler guy. Cheap and simple - remember.

Anyone with enough $$$$ is sure to find something that would work.

I use a dowel rod with 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and full notches for fuel. I have straight down fuel filler to tanks.

A light on top of a poly tank for waste.

A valve to shut off the spare 3rd water tank until the other two are empty.

Using that old sounder you were thinking about tossing is as far as I'd take the thought aboard the Dog.

Worry not, SD!

I'm strongly into good ol’ solid, inventive Rube Goldberg solutions... especially aboard a depreciating value property such as a 1977 Pleasure Cruiser! (well, maybe her depreciation has bottomed out! lol) Anyway - If I could I'd much prefer straight stick such as you have; my fuel tank filler tubes kink too much to even allow 3/8" dowel. I too use bright light for black water tank. Simply make sure to keep our two water tanks full

According to some I read on websites the senders available affix to tank top and by being qued to tank depth they provide %age of fuel remaining. The one I’m waiting price on can accurately read level in all 5 of my tanks.

Will let you know results if/when they get back to me... I sent an email to em. The $2K group of 5 senders I mentioned in previous email is a real, live NO GO!!

 

[RickB]

I am not claiming to know all the products available but I can comment on some the issues to be considered.

The transducer reads through to the other side. NOT the level. Consider it a go, no-go reading. So the transducer must be scanned in the scenario I was talking about to determine the level.

WTF are you talking about?

The ultrasonic level detectors send an ultrasonic sound wave (just like sonar) from the transducer toward the liquid surface. When it hits the surface it is relected back and the time of travel is calculated and displayed as a height of liquid, or converted to quantity.

There is nothing on "the other side." The technology is older than anyone reading this post, it is about as solid as any technology can get. There is nothing Rube Goldberg about it.

 

[SaltyDog]

Rick RTFM - my 1st post on the subject.
The 1st sentence of your quote of my post above covers it quite well.

An old fish-finder/depth sounder does not work like you are stating. Hold a transducer above your beer and see how it works. Dip in the water then get back to us.

 

[Northern Spy]

Transducer would have to be at the bottom facing upwards right?

While we are overthinking this, let's not forget through air and guided wave level transmitters to be used from the top of the tank.

Maybe there can be a use for my old Sitex radar...

 

[Art]

OK Boaten Folks - Here's the scoop!

I spoke with Ike at Sonix Corp (see his email below). Their general type sending units do not work well with gasoline. From his inflections I took it that it may actually pose danger. We also discussed utilizing transducer from depth sounder and he seemed reticent to comment positive or negative on that item, although, in our discussion it did seem he agreed with what SaltyDog mentioned in post # 33. Before I do anything for utilizing electrically or mechanically produced sound waves as tank level readers there is more research to accomplish. Particularally pertaining to gas-fume safety, level accuracy, and simplicity of installation/use. Also, Ike mentioned he felt there was little to no units such as we discussed on the market for pleasure boats. Makes me wonder why?? Simple units should not be too expensive to manufacture... is there a marketing niche here waiting to be accosted! - lol

Plan to let you know if I learn more of interest bout all this! - Art

Dear Art:

Thank you for visiting our web site, we appreciate your interest in our products. Our products are frequently used on all kinds of boats and ships. The issue here is the cost. Our lowest cost product is Sonix-40, which is $880 [per tank]. Sensor for gasoline tank would be too high to even mention.

I will be happy to answer your questions.

Best Regards,

Ike Cagan

Automated Sonix Corp.
http://www.automatedsonix.com
Tel: 941-964-1361
Fax: 941-964-2902

 

[rwidman]

........... We also discussed utilizing transducer from depth sounder and he seemed reticent to comment positive or negative on that item, ...........

In my experience, a traditional depth sounder does not work through air and if it did, it would read the depth of the tank, not the level of the contents.
It's probably best to use products for what they were designed to be used for.

Looking at some of these products on the Internet, it seems they are overkill. Do you really want to spend $1K to measure the level in your poop tank?

Want to think outside the box? Mount the tank on an electronic scale and use the weight to determine the level of the contents.