Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-29-2018, 02:27 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
toocoys's Avatar
 
City: Seabrook
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Final Choice
Vessel Model: 1996 Mainship 37 M/Y
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 464
Question Help me diagnose this....

Head is a vacuflush. It would fill up with water but wouldn’t go down.

Took it apart this morning and found the duck bill to be disentegrated and there was a pony tail holder wrapped around the blades of the pump.

Installed new duck bill, cleaned pump blades off, reinstalled and.... nothing.

Bowl fills, pump runs, I get swirling action in the bowl, but nothing goes down.

Is my next move to replace the entire line from toilet to tank? How can I verify there is a vacuum to push stuff down?

There is a section of line between the tank and the toilet that has been clamped in place. I suppose I could remove it and blow the lines either way.

I had to stop for today because I’m too irritated to continue.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	BA7C1E00-1910-4C2B-B144-D35D0BFDD1C6.jpg
Views:	125
Size:	81.9 KB
ID:	80274   Click image for larger version

Name:	4CC0CECE-129D-4546-92E8-621BB99AB9D8.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	74.3 KB
ID:	80275   Click image for larger version

Name:	FB02B386-4BCE-443C-BF61-809DCD437232.jpg
Views:	121
Size:	99.3 KB
ID:	80276  
__________________
Advertisement

toocoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 02:58 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
toocoys's Avatar
 
City: Seabrook
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Final Choice
Vessel Model: 1996 Mainship 37 M/Y
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 464
Ok took the discharge line off, removed the duck bill, and the line was full of rust looking crust. I’m assuming that is stuff which shan’t be named.

Crap I don’t want to pull this line through the wall. I can’t be sure how many layers it goes through.
__________________

toocoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 03:01 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Maerin's Avatar
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: M/V Maerin
Vessel Model: Solo 4303
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by toocoys View Post
Head is a vacuflush. It would fill up with water but wouldn’t go down.

Took it apart this morning and found the duck bill to be disentegrated and there was a pony tail holder wrapped around the blades of the pump.

Installed new duck bill, cleaned pump blades off, reinstalled and.... nothing.

Bowl fills, pump runs, I get swirling action in the bowl, but nothing goes down.

Is my next move to replace the entire line from toilet to tank? How can I verify there is a vacuum to push stuff down?

There is a section of line between the tank and the toilet that has been clamped in place. I suppose I could remove it and blow the lines either way.

I had to stop for today because I’m too irritated to continue.

It's not a Vacuflush.


If the photo of the joker valve is indicative of the discharge hose, consider replacing it. Is it obstructed? You'll have to R&R it to clean it, so it's only the cost of the new hose to do it right.The macerator pump is what "pushes stuff down", it should have a rubber impeller and cutter blades. Rather than patch up the pump, why not rebuild it? You'll have better chances of success with a thorough rebuild and it will be less frustrating.


If it's flushing with seawater, consider going to freshwater flush to reduce the amount of buildup and stink. Also insure that if it's seawater and it has a vented loop on the supply to the pump, it's possible that the vent is sucking air and preventing the pump from moving enough water to create an adequate flush. Then you have bad buildup problems and worse stink issues. A vented loop should have a solenoid to block the vent when the head flushes to prevent it from sucking air into the pump. CHances are, the passageways in the head are loaded with deposits as well, a thorough cleaning with muriatic acid will clear that up, but it's best to do that off the boat- e.g. remove the head and do it where the mess can be contained and hosed up. Yeah, it's a messy job. Do it right, do it once!
__________________
Steve Sipe
Selene 4303 Maerin
http://maerin.net
Maerin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 03:08 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
toocoys's Avatar
 
City: Seabrook
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Final Choice
Vessel Model: 1996 Mainship 37 M/Y
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 464
Here is where it exits the head, and enters the engine room.

And you can see where they’ve butted it together in the middle. The brown/Black part is connected to the tank inlet.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	0015EEF3-B47B-4462-89C1-A48A0AC8DCA0.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	74.7 KB
ID:	80277   Click image for larger version

Name:	89E6FD2C-BEA0-4797-8D4A-80B4CA54D6D9.jpg
Views:	100
Size:	136.3 KB
ID:	80278   Click image for larger version

Name:	9872CD12-D720-495A-BB5F-13504304EFC8.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	85.1 KB
ID:	80279   Click image for larger version

Name:	1B97C72A-8C8B-439F-99B1-4C58500008CE.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	119.4 KB
ID:	80280  
toocoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 03:12 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
toocoys's Avatar
 
City: Seabrook
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Final Choice
Vessel Model: 1996 Mainship 37 M/Y
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maerin View Post
It's not a Vacuflush.


If the photo of the joker valve is indicative of the discharge hose, consider replacing it. Is it obstructed? You'll have to R&R it to clean it, so it's only the cost of the new hose to do it right.The macerator pump is what "pushes stuff down", it should have a rubber impeller and cutter blades. Rather than patch up the pump, why not rebuild it? You'll have better chances of success with a thorough rebuild and it will be less frustrating.


If it's flushing with seawater, consider going to freshwater flush to reduce the amount of buildup and stink. Also insure that if it's seawater and it has a vented loop on the supply to the pump, it's possible that the vent is sucking air and preventing the pump from moving enough water to create an adequate flush. Then you have bad buildup problems and worse stink issues. A vented loop should have a solenoid to block the vent when the head flushes to prevent it from sucking air into the pump. CHances are, the passageways in the head are loaded with deposits as well, a thorough cleaning with muriatic acid will clear that up, but it's best to do that off the boat- e.g. remove the head and do it where the mess can be contained and hosed up. Yeah, it's a messy job. Do it right, do it once!
I did not see an impeller on the pump. Only blades. It flushes from the fresh water tank.

There was a plastic housing around the blades with a rectangle cut out so that it can flow into the discharge hole. Inside that was the blades that spun. I’ll
Have to google the pump model
Number and see what it looks like to compare.

I really want to pull the lines and put one continuous new line but unless I can get the hulk in my engine room I can’t get that line to budge through the wall.


ETA... I WANT to fix this right but I’m going in blind on this one. Never dealt with this stuff before.
toocoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 03:42 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
toocoys's Avatar
 
City: Seabrook
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Final Choice
Vessel Model: 1996 Mainship 37 M/Y
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 464
Ok I give up for today. I tried getting behind the engine to pull the line through the wall and that ain’t happening with my big ass.

So tomorrow I’ll try to split the line where it’s already patched together and try to run some Muratic acid through it.

I just need to get this working until next year when the owner replaces the tank with a poly one.
toocoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 03:45 PM   #7
Guru
 
Crusty Chief's Avatar
 
City: Las Vegas/Portland
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Pairadice
Vessel Model: Selene 47
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,146
Sure looks like a Jabsco Macerator motor to me. Suggest you get a rebuild kit or a new motor. If you clean the cutter blades and tap the switch to make sure it actually turns that will solve your first question.
Also, check to make sure the vent filter is not plugged, if it is plugged, put a new one in.
Last effort, maybe try pushing a straighted coat hanger down the hose to see if its clogged.
Heads are my least favorite thing to work on.....but make the Admiral happy when they work right.
Good luck
__________________
John & Tracey
Pairadice S4714
http://mvpairadice.blogspot.com/
" I can explain, but I can't make you understand"
Crusty Chief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 03:55 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
toocoys's Avatar
 
City: Seabrook
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Final Choice
Vessel Model: 1996 Mainship 37 M/Y
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 464
I know for sure the pump is working. While the discharge line was removed, I hit the flush button. Fresh water came in and the pump pushed it through the hole.

I’m 99.9% certain I have a clogged line at this point because I’ve cleared everything else. Right now I have the line propped up and I poured a little Clorox gel in there. I also took a piece of solid copper wire and shoved it down the line. I hit a crusty obstruction about a foot down the line.

If I can’t clear it with chemicals overnight then tomorrow I’ll be regrouping and devising a plan to clear the lines. I’m thinking a barb and shop vac on one side and pouring miratic acid in the other.

Or one of those toilet snakes.
toocoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 04:19 PM   #9
Veteran Member
 
City: North Vancouver
Country: Canada
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34 Sundeck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 68
I dealt with a clogged hose with a vacuflush system last year. A number of people told me to not use a drain snake so I used an old garden hose with the ends cut off I found in a junk shop. Flexible enough to get around bends but stiff enough to break up the clog. Worked quite well and as it allowed me to have a specific length so I knew how far back the garden hose went into the plumbing.
LowNSlow77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2018, 08:52 AM   #10
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,837
If it's not a Vacuflush... and it's in a Mainship... I'd guess Jabsco.

If it's electric and freshwater, maybe #37045. If electric and raw water, maybe #37010 or 37045. Diagrams and parts lists available on the Xylem website.

If the discharge line is clogged with what looks like crystalline stuff... search for Peggies posts on "uric acid crystals" and "struvites."

Sew Clean will likely clear that line; works great. Snake likely won't work; I got mine stuck down there before I could try the Sew Clean.

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2018, 09:28 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
toocoys's Avatar
 
City: Seabrook
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Final Choice
Vessel Model: 1996 Mainship 37 M/Y
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
If it's not a Vacuflush... and it's in a Mainship... I'd guess Jabsco.

If it's electric and freshwater, maybe #37045. If electric and raw water, maybe #37010 or 37045. Diagrams and parts lists available on the Xylem website.

If the discharge line is clogged with what looks like crystalline stuff... search for Peggies posts on "uric acid crystals" and "struvites."

Sew Clean will likely clear that line; works great. Snake likely won't work; I got mine stuck down there before I could try the Sew Clean.

-Chris
Where can I find sew clean? I need something today!

What about that CLR stuff?
toocoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2018, 09:32 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Maerin's Avatar
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: M/V Maerin
Vessel Model: Solo 4303
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by toocoys View Post
Right now I have the line propped up and I poured a little Clorox gel in there. I also took a piece of solid copper wire and shoved it down the line. I hit a crusty obstruction about a foot down the line.

If I can’t clear it with chemicals overnight then tomorrow I’ll be regrouping and devising a plan to clear the lines. I’m thinking a barb and shop vac on one side and pouring miratic acid in the other.

So you've ruled out the use of muriatic acid. You added clorox, so unless you want to create a real HAZMAT situation, DO NOT ADD MURIATIC ACID TO THE LINE CONTAINING A CHLORINE COMPOUND. YOU'LL CREATE CHLORINE GAS.
  • ID the pump, get a parts list or blowup of it so you can assess the condition of the pump.
  • Rebuild the pump
  • Determine what controls the flow of freshwater to the head. Some of the Jabsco pumps have an impeller for the water supply as well as a section for waste, can't tell from the photos how yours is configured, ID the pump and find out via model number confirmation rather than rely on what you're told on the forum.
  • Replace the waste line.
  • Correct the joint that has a smaller diameter hose shoved into the larger diameter hose with 5200 as a sealer.
  • Replace the gaskets in the head, if it's built up with piss-crete, take it off the boat and treat it with muriatic acid.
  • Don't use acid where it can't be controlled.
__________________
Steve Sipe
Selene 4303 Maerin
http://maerin.net
Maerin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2018, 11:41 AM   #13
Guru
 
HeadMistress's Avatar


 
City: AR
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,470
Your toilet is a Jabsco 37010--apparently a very old one, but it hasn't changed in more than 10 years...you can download the owners manual from here: Jabsco 37010 owners manual It won't help you clear the mineral buildup and whatever else has built up in the plumbing, but it does include an exploded drawing of he pump and parts list.

Judging from what I saw in the photos, ALL the hoses should be replaced and the system plumbed correctly (it's a MESS!). And at the very least the toilet needs a rebuild kit. If it's at least 10 years (and based on the color of the hoses I'm betting it is), I'd strongly consider replacing everything south of the bowl. Search for "macerating electric toilet conversions." They're available in both sea water and pressurized fresh water versions. The Raritan SeaEra is top rated (yes, your bowl will fit it). Raritan SeaEra Conversion Promo Sheet

Meanwhile, there is a product that's made to clean out hoses and does an excellent job when used as directed. Sew Clean It's non-corrosive and environmentally safe.

Once you solve the toilet and its plumbing problems, there's another thing that's almost sure to need attention: the holding tank and it's related plumbing including the vent line.


-Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
__________________
© 2018 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
HeadMistress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2018, 05:08 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
toocoys's Avatar
 
City: Seabrook
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Final Choice
Vessel Model: 1996 Mainship 37 M/Y
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 464
Ok I got the line completely pulled. With the help of a neighbor I was able to install a brand new, singular piece of line. You can see that the original
Line had been “bubba’d” and was three sections connected with barbs and clamps. I couldn’t even get the garden hose to clear it.

All that’s left is to get a new fresh water inlet for the toilet and connect everything back up.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	C211D80C-6E6A-44A8-BC9B-D80BFF08F85F.jpg
Views:	72
Size:	193.6 KB
ID:	80305  
toocoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2018, 05:11 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
toocoys's Avatar
 
City: Seabrook
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Final Choice
Vessel Model: 1996 Mainship 37 M/Y
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadMistress View Post
Your toilet is a Jabsco 37010--apparently a very old one, but it hasn't changed in more than 10 years...you can download the owners manual from here: Jabsco 37010 owners manual It won't help you clear the mineral buildup and whatever else has built up in the plumbing, but it does include an exploded drawing of he pump and parts list.

Judging from what I saw in the photos, ALL the hoses should be replaced and the system plumbed correctly (it's a MESS!). And at the very least the toilet needs a rebuild kit. If it's at least 10 years (and based on the color of the hoses I'm betting it is), I'd strongly consider replacing everything south of the bowl. Search for "macerating electric toilet conversions." They're available in both sea water and pressurized fresh water versions. The Raritan SeaEra is top rated (yes, your bowl will fit it). Raritan SeaEra Conversion Promo Sheet

Meanwhile, there is a product that's made to clean out hoses and does an excellent job when used as directed. Sew Clean It's non-corrosive and environmentally safe.

Once you solve the toilet and its plumbing problems, there's another thing that's almost sure to need attention: the holding tank and it's related plumbing including the vent line.


-Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein


If I had an endless financial supply I’d do everything you said, except I don’t. So getting what I have working is my main objective.

The tank is on the list of things to replace next year with a new poly tank. It’s not in the budget this year.
toocoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2018, 06:11 PM   #16
Guru
 
HeadMistress's Avatar


 
City: AR
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,470
At least do one thing if you want the toilet keep working after you get it working: put a rebuild kit in it. If your photos are indication of the condition of rubber and other "degradable" parts in it, it's in desperate need of one.



Also make sure the motor is getting enough power...'cuz low voltage is the most common reason for sluggish discharge is highly destructive to electric motors. Put a volt meter on it WHILE FLUSHING. If it's not getting a full 12v, you have a wiring problem.


--Peggie
__________________
© 2018 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
HeadMistress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2018, 09:44 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
toocoys's Avatar
 
City: Seabrook
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Final Choice
Vessel Model: 1996 Mainship 37 M/Y
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 464
$20 worth of new line.
$17 worth of new fittings.
Two days worth of work.

Results, priceless.

toocoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2018, 07:38 AM   #18
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,837
Only $20 for new hose?

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2018, 08:16 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
toocoys's Avatar
 
City: Seabrook
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Final Choice
Vessel Model: 1996 Mainship 37 M/Y
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
Only $20 for new hose?

-Chris
$2/ft at 10 ft. And I have about 3’ left over.
toocoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2018, 10:31 AM   #20
Guru
 
HeadMistress's Avatar


 
City: AR
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
Only $20 for new hose? -Chris

I'm guessing it's spa/hot tub hose....That would be about the right price for it.



--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
__________________

__________________
© 2018 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
HeadMistress is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012