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Old 05-30-2018, 08:49 PM   #1
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Question Grrrrrr.... 240 or 115v? Flip a coin.

If you're part of CF or the CCCC forgive me, you'll have already seen this.

I've been offered a Flagship Marine a/c unit for my boat for a mere $300. It's 16,500btu, manufactured in 2005, and per the tag its a 240v. However, the seller took it from his 29' Bristol sailboat and swore that it ran on 115v 30amp service because he doesn't have 240 on his boat.

After doing some research, I noticed in the photos that the compressor is labeled 115v. (photos attached). Which means that the compressor was replaced at some point, or that the unit was frankensteined and converted somehow.

Furthermore, Flagship Marine uses a "heat coil" much like a hair dryer, instead of reverse cycle heating. While the mfg was quite adamant that the unit will not work on 115v, most people say that one leg of the 240 probably powers the A/C while the other leg probably powers the heat coil. I looked in the discharge area and I don't see any coils where they are depicted on Flagships website.

Since we live in Texas, I am the least bit concerned with the heat working as we never need it.

So I'm not sure if this is a good deal, or if this is going to turn out being a big hoorah trying to get it installed. The owner said that he would allow me to install it and make sure it was operational before paying him.

Thoughts? Testing advice? Buehler?
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:52 PM   #2
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Very common to have a 240>120 step down transformer on a boat
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:55 PM   #3
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Very common to have a 240>120 step down transformer on a boat
What does that mean?
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:12 PM   #4
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I think Gaston meant a step up transformer. 240 comes into a boat as 2 x 120.

My dryer is the only 240v application on my boat. I have a 120v 30 amp circuit that goes to a step up transformer. This gives me 240v 15 amp for the dryer.

It is possible that the boat was 125v/50amp and the AC circuit had a step up transformer that the owner was unaware of. It’s also possible some one Frankensteined it.

Can you bench run it from home.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:36 PM   #5
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Can you bench run it from home.

I didn't figure that I could do that without having the water pump attached. Can I run it without the pump without causing damage?
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:50 PM   #6
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You will need the water pump attached but you can run both hoses into a 5 gallon bucket.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:52 PM   #7
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I didn't figure that I could do that without having the water pump attached. Can I run it without the pump without causing damage?
Garden hose is all you need.
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Old 05-30-2018, 10:05 PM   #8
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Garden hose is all you need.
Well duh... didn't even think of that.... hook up the garden hose!!
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:53 PM   #9
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What does that mean?
It means Mr. Gaston doesn't know much about electricity.

I have the exact same unit on Delfin, and I'll try to look at the compressor tomorrow to see what voltage it is. I am quite sure it is 240 vac, as that is what it is wired for. Mine doesn't have the heating option that was offered, so I think the advice that one leg of the 240 powers heat and the other the compressor is probably incorrect. Sounds like someone replaced the original compressor with a 115 vac variety, as you suggested.

We don't use a/c much in the Pac NW, so my opinion doesn't mean much, but it has always worked flawlessly when called on. With that limited knowledge, $300 sounds like a screaming good deal.
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:59 PM   #10
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It means Mr. Gaston doesn't know much about electricity.

I have the exact same unit on Delfin, and I'll try to look at the compressor tomorrow to see what voltage it is. I am quite sure it is 240 vac, as that is what it is wired for. Mine doesn't have the heating option that was offered, so I think the advice that one leg of the 240 powers heat and the other the compressor is probably incorrect. Sounds like someone replaced the original compressor with a 115 vac variety, as you suggested.

We don't use a/c much in the Pac NW, so my opinion doesn't mean much, but it has always worked flawlessly when called on. With that limited knowledge, $300 sounds like a screaming good deal.

Awesome! Another friend of mine just pointed something else out as well. 240 would have 2 hot wires, a neutral and a ground for the power supply which means there would be 7 terminals including the 3 for the pump. If you look at the bus bar there are only 6 terminals. Hot/Neutral/Ground for the power supply, and Hot/Neutral/Ground for the pump.
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:12 AM   #11
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Awesome! Another friend of mine just pointed something else out as well. 240 would have 2 hot wires, a neutral and a ground for the power supply which means there would be 7 terminals including the 3 for the pump. If you look at the bus bar there are only 6 terminals. Hot/Neutral/Ground for the power supply, and Hot/Neutral/Ground for the pump.

If I forget to post the voltage on our unit, feel free to PM to remind me. I'll also check on how many connection posts I have, but it sounds like if you supply 115 vac to this unit and it has refrigerant, you should get cooling.
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Old 05-31-2018, 02:33 AM   #12
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https://www.tortech.com.au/category/...ent-in-america
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:30 AM   #13
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Awesome! Another friend of mine just pointed something else out as well. 240 would have 2 hot wires, a neutral and a ground for the power supply which means there would be 7 terminals including the 3 for the pump. If you look at the bus bar there are only 6 terminals. Hot/Neutral/Ground for the power supply, and Hot/Neutral/Ground for the pump.
Close. A 240V (only) load would have two ungrounded (hot) terminals "L1" and "L2", and an equipment grounding terminal "G". No 'neutral'. If the unit was designed for a 120V compressor and other 120V loads with a 240V mains voltage, a grounded (neutral "N") terminal would also be required, like with a clothes dryer in North America.

That unit was designed for single-voltage mains. It's possible the compressor was replaced, and it's also possible the control unit was designed for a range of supply voltage, which keeps things simple when they're built for different parts of the world.

Or so it looks from way over here.
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Old 05-31-2018, 10:35 AM   #14
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Close. A 240V (only) load would have two ungrounded (hot) terminals "L1" and "L2", and an equipment grounding terminal "G". No 'neutral'. If the unit was designed for a 120V compressor and other 120V loads with a 240V mains voltage, a grounded (neutral "N") terminal would also be required, like with a clothes dryer in North America.

That unit was designed for single-voltage mains. It's possible the compressor was replaced, and it's also possible the control unit was designed for a range of supply voltage, which keeps things simple when they're built for different parts of the world.

Or so it looks from way over here.
Actually 4 wire 240 vac circuits are preferred now. Used to be 3 wire was most common (and before that 2 wire), but now you have L1, L2, a ground and a neutral. Especially important on boats where the neutral and ground go to different busses, even if they both end up connecting to ship's ground. If you look at the electrical connection photo the OP posted you can see it is a 4 wire setup. I suspect the former owner replaced the compressor and took the 120 off one of the hot legs plus the neutral.

https://www.doityourself.com/forum/e...ator-plug.html

OP: Do you have the manual for this unit? If not, I can get you a copy of mine.
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:06 AM   #15
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Actually 4 wire 240 vac circuits are preferred now.
4-wire feeder to a 120/240V subpanel, yes. And a boat's electrical distribution panel is essentially a subpanel, as the neutral and equipment ground is connected at the source, not in the boat, assuming no isolation transformer. But only 3 conductors are required for a 240V only branch circuit and load, two of which are current-carrying, like a typical domestic tank water heater or air conditioning condenser (outdoor) unit, plus an equipment ground.

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If you look at the electrical connection photo the OP posted you can see it is a 4 wire setup. I suspect the former owner replaced the compressor and took the 120 off one of the hot legs plus the neutral.
That's what I was going off of, but I don't see a neutral connection, only L1, L2, and G for both mains power and the pump. You certainly could take the 120V that way, though the current would double for the same size compressor, and power relays would have to be checked for rating. If I missed it, then I stand corrected, and ignore everything I said before.
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:25 AM   #16
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4-wire feeder to a 120/240V subpanel, yes. And a boat's electrical distribution panel is essentially a subpanel, as the neutral and equipment ground is connected at the source, not in the boat, assuming no isolation transformer. But only 3 conductors are required for a 240V only branch circuit and load, two of which are current-carrying, like a typical domestic tank water heater or air conditioning condenser (outdoor) unit, plus an equipment ground.



That's what I was going off of, but I don't see a neutral connection, only L1, L2, and G for both mains power and the pump. You certainly could take the 120V that way, though the current would double for the same size compressor, and power relays would have to be checked for rating. If I missed it, then I stand corrected, and ignore everything I said before.
I was just looking at the photo of the "Digital Connections", which shows red, white, yellow and green connections.

I think the reason for the safety preference on many, but not all, 240 vac appliances is that the ground + neutral provides redundancy for a path to earth that doesn't go through you. This is a pretty good discussion on the topic:

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/26...240v-appliance
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:43 AM   #17
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After sending my photos to Flagship, I received this response this morning:

“Chris after talking to our engineers they said hook it up and run it on a garden hose. Jumper the wires together on the thermostat terminal strip and you should fire right up!”

They confirmed my suspicions and agreed that I most definitely have a converted unit.
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:45 AM   #18
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OP: Do you have the manual for this unit? If not, I can get you a copy of mine.
I do not. The seller only has the unit as it came with the boat he purchased.
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:21 PM   #19
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I do not. The seller only has the unit as it came with the boat he purchased.
I didn't make it out to the boat today, but will try tomorrow. PM me and I'll send you a scan of the manual.
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:17 AM   #20
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Just out of curiosity, why did the US go 115-120v AC, when most of the rest of the world went 230-240v AC..? Albeit with many varying shapes and sizes of plugs. But at least all you need is an adapter plug to run your whatever when travelling, except in the US, and maybe Canada too? - I don't know.
I'll Google it as well, but just interested...
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