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Old 02-13-2019, 01:26 PM   #21
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Comodave,
Are you confusing the Borel exhaust hose alarm (just a band) that IS installed on the exterior of the engine exhaust hose AFTER the water injection point with a pyrometer that is installed (near the turbo if there is one) and the exhaust temp is actually measured PRIOR to the water injection point? The Borel band cannot measure engine load as it is simply an overheat alarm. If the hose temp goes above the set point, the alarm goes off, meaning investigate now, there is a problem.
No, I don’t have them confused. An exhaust gas temperature sensor is a pyrometer. We are saying the same thing. The Borel is checking water flow by measuring the exhaust temperature after the cooling water is injected. If the cooling water stops the exhaust will immediately rise in temperature.
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Old 02-13-2019, 05:02 PM   #22
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Good Comodave,
I must have misunderstood what you were saying. Sorry about that.
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Old 02-13-2019, 10:41 PM   #23
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Blue Seas Systems also makes a temperature system along the lines of the Borel system. It is the M2 OLED 1841 digital temperature monitor, with temperature sensor 1821. The digital display will take up to 4 sensor and display them in a bar graph so you can see the temps as they vary, etc. You can also set the individual alarms, hi and lo for each sensor. The temp sensors are mounted with metal bands (purchased separately). I mounted these on my genset, each engine exhaust and the fourth on the wall of the engine room. Now I can see what temp each is measuring.
This year plan on mounting aqualarm flow detectors on cooling water intakes sense blockage from weeds, etc.
This looks like a great way to do it. Thanks.
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Old 02-13-2019, 10:47 PM   #24
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Huhhh! See Wet Exhaust Temperature Alarm by Borel Manufacturing Inc..


Yes it is an external sensor that measures the temperature of the hose and alarms when it hits 165 F, and is not directly in the exhaust gas path. But you don't want that, both for corrosion and temperature stability reasons.


I will bet that more marine engines have been saved with the Borel alarm than any others including standard engine gauges.



David
Geez, I really misread that. By “raw water” alarm, I thought they meant the upstream alarm that indicates flow, not exhaust gas temps. Thanks for setting it straight.
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:19 AM   #25
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Remember, an alarm for all the engines. No one mentioned the generator
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Old 02-14-2019, 07:05 AM   #26
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Nothing against the Borel unit—now that I’ve finally read about it—but it’s apparently factory-set at 165 degrees F and not customizable. I’m thinking that seeing temp trends and being able to set alarm trigger points would be preferable. I’m going to give Blue Seas a hard look.
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Old 02-14-2019, 07:54 AM   #27
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Our boat came from the factory with an audio alarm that sounds when the antifreeze mixture in the engine reaches 205 degrees. Worked fine the time the raw water pump kept throwing the belt (pulley incorrectly positioned on the pump shaft by the rebuilder...not me). Better be quick to shut it down, though....true for any of these alarms Happened at 2 AM on a rough crossing of Lake Michigan. I was alone, so set the autopilot on a heading for Sturgeon Bay, pushed up the power on the other engine, and went below to replace the pump with the spare. Popped up every 15-20 minutes to scan for ore carrying Lakers in the sea lanes between the mines in the north and the steel mills in Indiana. I'm a proponent of overtemp warning systems, autopilots, radar, and twins.
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:04 AM   #28
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Thanks all for the great info!! This clears up my confusion. Sammy
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:09 AM   #29
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I did not say that I put one on my genset, but of course I did put an exhaust temperature alarm on it.
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:24 AM   #30
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I like the Blue Seas sensors. I am going to add / build a warning system with a fire bell in the flybridge bulkhead inclosure. One sensor for engine exhaust temp, one for generator exhaust temp, and a float for high water in bilge.
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:49 AM   #31
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I am a big fan of Blue Seas equipment. I have not looked at their system. The Borel system allowed me to have 3 exhaust temperature alarms, 2 water in fuel alarms for my Racors and 2 high water alarms custom made for my application. It has a built in horn that is very loud and would be heard over the engine noise. Also it only draws power when it is alarming.
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Old 02-14-2019, 10:12 AM   #32
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Remember, an alarm for all the engines. No one mentioned the generator
Sorry Dan, but I did back in Post #9. It was a while back in a longer post, so I can understand how you forgot.
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:10 AM   #33
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Seems like measuring the exhaust temp after mixing with the exhaust water is just a water temp gauge. I'd argue that a water flow indicator in the same spot would be MUCH more valuable, giving you an indication of trouble before the engine gets hot.

And a second vote would be for an antifreeze temp gauge which would give an indication if the belt broke and the freshwater pump stopped. The exhaust water flow won't show that with the flow gauge and will show it later with a temp gauge.

Thoughts?

Now shopping
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Old 02-14-2019, 12:59 PM   #34
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I would not want a water flow sensor in the exhaust stream. It will be an ongoing maintenance problem with the corrosive exhaust gases. The exterior temp sensor is a water flow sensor in effect.
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Old 02-14-2019, 07:27 PM   #35
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Seevee,
I agree completely with Comodave!
When my exhaust hose overheat alarm was going off (due to a problem) in the summer of 2017(explained in an earlier post in this thread), my mixing elbow was providing the necessary AMOUNT of cooling water. However, it was not providing the correct PATTERN of cooling water, hence the hotspot detected by the exhaust temp alarm. Every other spot on the engine, heat exchanger, turbo, engine block, even other spots on the hose, etc. etc. were reading very good temperatures (185 or lower), but there were 2 spots on the exhaust hose that got up as high as 225 degrees. The hose was rated at 200 degrees F continuous and 250 intermittent. A water flow alarm would not have caught this common problem (a corroded exhaust elbow) nor would the "normal" coolant temperature alarm!
In my case, due to the installation and design of the OEM exhaust elbow, if this problem had not been caught in time, I could have had saltwater enter my turbo and/or the exhaust side of the engine potentially causing major damage (worse case new engine). In my opinion, this alarm SAVED MY BACON. For $75 this alarm is cheap insurance, but each to his own.
To me, the raw water flow alarm (which I also have and like) that is installed near the seacock, is really there to help me get to the seacock if I left it closed to avoid impeller replacement and to warn if there is another problem (such as blocked inlet).
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Old 02-18-2019, 01:50 PM   #36
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Just been researching this...

Aqualarm now builds an exhaust hose monitor, nicely packaged and competitive with Borel. Go to their website for details.

Thanks for all the positive Borel comments. Equipping a new-to-my-friend GB42 with twin 3116 Cats.

Will get Borel or Aqualarm.
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Old 02-18-2019, 02:13 PM   #37
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The fastest response sensor to a loss of seawater flow would be the flow switch. It either senses flow or no-flow, practically instantaneous. No waiting for temps to rise. The problem is it is a moving component in salt water that can corrode and fail either way.

An exhaust temperature sensor takes time for the actual exhaust temperature to rise plus the time needed to conduct the temp rise across the hose or riser that it is attached to. Additionally there is a time response of the switch itself. Is it fast enough to stop damage? The hope is yes. It's not in contact with saltwater so its reliability is higher.
Not sure what a raw water temp alarm buys you that the engine coolant gauge and alarm does not already provide.
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Old 02-18-2019, 02:58 PM   #38
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Not sure what a raw water temp alarm buys you that the engine coolant gauge and alarm does not already provide.

This is what it buys you:


When you suddenly lose raw water flow due to a blockage at the inlet, shredding the impeller, or whatever, the main heat exchanger starts heating up and the exhaust through the rise starts heating. At high loads it takes less than a minute, maybe 10-20 seconds for the exhaust hose to heat up enough to trip a Borel alarm. Then when you hear the alarm you throttle back to idle and no harm is done.


If you don't have an exhaust gas alarm or similar raw water flow alarm, the exhaust hose gets real hot and starts to burn inside, maybe the muffler melts.


The coolant temp starts to rise. Often the coolant alarm won't go off for several minutes until some of the coolant has boiled off, and the head heats up enough to trigger the alarm.


In this case it is several minutes before the coolant alarm goes off, not seconds. Sometimes the head gasket blows and the head is warped. Even worse can happen.


The Borel and similar alarms buys you minutes and is worth every penny.


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Old 02-18-2019, 03:45 PM   #39
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Our boat is a 2007 34' Mainship Pilot with the Yanmar 370 hp engine. I am planning on installing a raw water temp sensor, but not sure if an exhaust temp sensor would be better. If I get the exhaust temp sensor do I even need the raw water sensor? Or, do I need both? Looks like Borel makes the sensors. Any other model sensors that you recommend? Thanks for your expertise!!

Well, I think I will get some heat for this suggestion (pun intended) but I have a cheap solution for monitoring exhaust temperature which I have been using for about 10 yrs now and it works like a charm. I actually use a barbecue meat monitor. That's right, you read it right. The one I use is made by Redi Chek (pictured below). They cost is less than $50.

I attached the probe to my engine exhaust injection elbow which is connected to a sending unit in the engine room. The receiver is mounted on my flybridge console where I get a continuous real time temperature reading. That signal is going through two decks without any problem. The beauty of this system is that it gives continuous temperature readings, not just a maximum temperature alarm, so you can see the temperature creep up long before it becomes a problem.

Some might say it does not give an accurate reading of internal temperature if it strapped to the outside of the exhaust elbow. To that I say, that doesn't really matter. The point is once you know what is normal for various engine rpm, you will then know if there is any kind of problem long before it gets too hot to cause damage. Also, it is a lot better than what most boaters have, which is nothing.

By the way, I think it is also a good idea to have a raw water flow monitor for the engine and generator.
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:25 PM   #40
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This is what it buys you:


When you suddenly lose raw water flow due to a blockage at the inlet, shredding the impeller, or whatever, the main heat exchanger starts heating up and the exhaust through the rise starts heating. At high loads it takes less than a minute, maybe 10-20 seconds for the exhaust hose to heat up enough to trip a Borel alarm. Then when you hear the alarm you throttle back to idle and no harm is done.


If you don't have an exhaust gas alarm or similar raw water flow alarm, the exhaust hose gets real hot and starts to burn inside, maybe the muffler melts.


The coolant temp starts to rise. Often the coolant alarm won't go off for several minutes until some of the coolant has boiled off, and the head heats up enough to trigger the alarm.


In this case it is several minutes before the coolant alarm goes off, not seconds. Sometimes the head gasket blows and the head is warped. Even worse can happen.


The Borel and similar alarms buys you minutes and is worth every penny.


David
Dave, I'm good with sea water FLOW and exhaust TEMP. Never seen Raw Water TEMP used. Where would that get installed that would do any good? On flow stoppage past the sender, the sensed temp would only creep up depending on location while engine coolant temp zooms up.
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