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Old 08-16-2014, 01:14 PM   #41
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Everything is a compromise.
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And that is what insurance is for.
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Old 08-16-2014, 01:44 PM   #42
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This thread has caused me to contemplate installing an automated system on my boat. Even if it only serves to give one more time to abandon ship there's still no real downside IMO. Nice topic.
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Old 08-27-2014, 01:17 AM   #43
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OK, I have purchased a Fireboy Xinex automatic/manual fire suppression system. I have read about these and can offer the following...

The unit discharges by heat detection. 175 degrees and the unit discharges. It does not discharge by smoke. Very simple, no electronics involved.

The unit has a simple circuit that is a contact closure if the tank is pressurized and open if the unit is not pressurized. This makes automatic shutdown easy. Fireboy makes a shutdown panel with redundant relays, etc... I may or may not go with this pre-made panel. Automatic engine shutdown is a AYBC requirement, their brand panel is not. I have a career history in engine automation so I think this will not be a design challenge. Simple is best. 12V through a relay to the fireboy. Normally open contacts control the 12V to the key switches. Unit discharges, relay denergizes, contacts open, engines stop. Simple, reliable.

I will be installing bypass switches right above the engine key switches. If the unit malfunctions a simple toggle switch and I'm back in service.

I already have a temperature sensor in the engine compartment. I can set the temperature at which it alarms, and I intend to set it at a point depending on my climate to help detect heat.

I am also going to install smoke detectors in the engine compartment that have a relay which will tie into my alarm system and klaxon. That way if a smoke detector activates I can investigate sooner, preferably before a fire grows to a size that will set off the automatic system. I'm also putting a smoke detector behind my electrical panel since thats a major place where fires start.

I know of a guy on another forum I frequent that had an engine room fire. He had between 2 and 3 minutes to abandon ship. Thats not allot of time to deploy the life raft and or the skiff and get people in it. I purchased this unit in part because of what he went through.
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:35 AM   #44
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Kevin

Smoke detectors in the engine room will not fare well. They are not suitable for the outdoorsy environment and will fail in a short time. Consider flame detectors or more heat detectors at a lower temperature.

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Old 08-27-2014, 09:12 AM   #45
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Kevin

Smoke detectors in the engine room will not fare well. They are not suitable for the outdoorsy environment and will fail in a short time. Consider flame detectors or more heat detectors at a lower temperature.

O.B.
OK, If I remember correctly you are a fire system engineer (oil field fire and gas?)

I was thinking of the Xintrex fire detection system.

Fireboy-Xintex recreational marine and offshore analog addressable fire detection systems

Any thoughts on that system? I was thinking of a couple sensors in the engine room and a sensor in the electrical space.
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Old 08-27-2014, 09:38 AM   #46
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Yes, I am a fire protection engineer. I have designed and specified fire protection for everything from nuclear power plants to offshore platforms.

The xintrex system looks like the one I would install on my boat. Smoke detectors in sleeping areas and electrical areas. Heat detectors in machinery areas. Almost any switching device or a device with a switch can be added to the detection circuit. Say a flame detector or a gas detector with ancillary contacts.

Good Luck, if you have anymore questions just ask.

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Old 08-27-2014, 09:56 AM   #47
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Kevin

Yes, I am a fire protection engineer. I have designed and specified fire protection for everything from nuclear power plants to offshore platforms.

The xintrex system looks like the one I would install on my boat. Smoke detectors in sleeping areas and electrical areas. Heat detectors in machinery areas. Almost any switching device or a device with a switch can be added to the detection circuit. Say a flame detector or a gas detector with ancillary contacts.

Good Luck, if you have anymore questions just ask.

O.B
Thanks!

I did notice the circuit looks like how we pull fire panel alarms into our SCADA system, being a two resistor setup providing three states: alarm, normal supervisory. This must be a fire and gas standard. (I work the SCADA and Telecom side of the house).

If I wanted to get snazzy I could install a fire eye.

I am, wondering what the reason for the smoke alarm trouble in the engine spaces? Do the units fault out with a trouble, or false positive? What is the general failure mode?

Thanks!!
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:12 AM   #48
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When the initiating circuit is shorted you get alarm. This is often considered the failure mode. When the circuit is opened and the control can no longer see the EOL (end of line) device you get a fault alarm. In a fault you can still get a fire alarm if the detecting device is on the control side of the fault. So you see the circuit is being monitored all the time and which way it failes becomes sort of mute. You will get some sort of notification of failure no matter how the system fails.
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:23 AM   #49
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Kevin

When the initiating circuit is shorted you get alarm. This is often considered the failure mode. When the circuit is opened and the control can no longer see the EOL (end of line) device you get a fault alarm. In a fault you can still get a fire alarm if the detecting device is on the control side of the fault. So you see the circuit is being monitored all the time and which way it failes becomes sort of mute. You will get some sort of notification of failure no matter how the system fails.
OK, now I understand.

Thanks!
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:39 AM   #50
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A fire eye (flame detector) in the engine room would be cool. Monitor the power eye power with a relay that opens the detection circuit and gives a fault if power is lost.

O.B.
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