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Old 01-30-2015, 07:53 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xsbank View Post
With the Fastflow pump you'd be roaring around in circles while the Coast Guard was trying to catch you to pump you out! Something out of Keystone Cops!
At least you'd be roaring towards help or shore while pumping water out automatically at a very high rate with no worries of the pump clogging. While you are still trying assemble and get your other emergency pump to start and/or prime.

But to each his own I guess.
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Old 01-30-2015, 07:59 AM   #22
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Guess my next question would be how likely is the need for this kind of volume. My boat came with 2 rule 2000s. Replaced them and added 2 additional rule 3700s. Now I know that boats sink for a variety of reasons, some related to their pumps. I have heard of dead batteries, faulty wiring, float switch problems, dead pumps, no pumps, clogged pumps and pumps turned off. But at the speeds most of us travel, how likely is inadequate volume a problem? My point is if you have well more than average amount of pumps and capacity in good working condition, is the risk factor up there with getting sunk by a breaching whale?

Ted
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:18 AM   #23
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Just take a look at the volume a 1 1/2 inch hole will pass 3 ft under water to get an idea of requirements.

A battery powered pump or pumps will fail in time , only engine driven can move real volumes.

The big boys do not lift the water , they simply push it out thru a seacock of huge size.

Test your DC electric pump on deck with a temp hose to see just hoe long it takes to fill a 5 gallon pail. Stand by to be Frightened!
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:27 AM   #24
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How fast can you sink? Well: "For example, if there is a 4-in hole in a vessel 2-ft below the water line, it will flood in at a rate of approximately 15,960-gal/hr and sink the vessel in a matter of minutes."

And Rule pumps don't flow at anywhere near their rated volume in real world conditions.
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:43 AM   #25
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Ok, I got all that. And what are the odds you going to but that kind of hole through a boat at 7 to 9 knots? Now if you've got a 30 year old boat with original seacocks, hoses and clamps on your raw water systems, maybe the risk of a significant hole is substantially higher. Any statistics for the risk factor of getting a hole punched through the hull in a fiberglass boat at 7 to 9 knots?

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Old 01-30-2015, 09:00 AM   #26
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No hole required , just a old 1 1/2 hose fails , and you dont notice till the salon sole starts to float.
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Old 01-30-2015, 10:28 AM   #27
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Emergency bilge punp

Forgot to mention we do have a big manual Edson bilge pump.
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Old 01-30-2015, 10:40 AM   #28
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What is your risk of a major flooding event.

Lets look at what could cause that.

1. You could hit something. At 7 knots what is the realistic chance of putting a big hole in your boat? I do not know but I don't think this is a high risk. I assume you carry plugs, and other emergency repair stuff onboard and since you'd know you hit something you could attend to the problem quickly.

2. you could have a seacock, hose or other failure of an onboard system. Personally I think this is your bigger risk. Things like washdown and head lines, engine hoses etc... can fail.

Addressing this kind of failure is really dependant on your knowing about it. Do you have a high bilge water alarm? If not, you should. Something on a separate float switch a couple inches higher than your normal bilge pump.

If you don't find out about high bilge water you can easily and quickly get to a point where the water is too deep to figure out what happened and fix it. If you know you're taking on water you can generally solve the problem.

If you know your boat is being flooded I assume you have seacocks that actually work? I also assume you have a set of plugs, and or one of those foam emergency plugs you can use?

So...

My method is warning. I have two high bilge water alarms. One forward and one aft of my engine rooms watertight bulkhead. These alarms go to a loud buzzer. They also go to my boats alarm system and I get a text within seconds if I'm not on the boat. I test these alarms frequently.

To mitigate a flooding event i have a set of wooden plugs, and one of those foam emergency plugs under the settee where I can get to them quickly.

I do not have yet but am going to add this season a stainless steel sump pump like the one I posted a photo of above. This pump or one like it will move 45 gallons per minute at a 5 foot lift. It has an AC motor that I'll wire to a dedicated circuit. Then, in an emergency all someone has to do is turn on the switch. If I'm not on the boat I can make one call to the harbor and within a couple of minutes someone can be on my boat and my pump can be running. No that pump at 45 gallons per minute is not the end all do all. Its job is to buy me time. Time to solve the problem. If I cant solve the problem time to calmly deploy my liferaft and call for help.
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:42 AM   #29
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Emergency bilge punp

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
What is your risk of a major flooding event.

Lets look at what could cause that.

1. You could hit something. At 7 knots what is the realistic chance of putting a big hole in your boat? I do not know but I don't think this is a high risk. I assume you carry plugs, and other emergency repair stuff onboard and since you'd know you hit something you could attend to the problem quickly.

2. you could have a seacock, hose or other failure of an onboard system. Personally I think this is your bigger risk. Things like washdown and head lines, engine hoses etc... can fail.

Addressing this kind of failure is really dependant on your knowing about it. Do you have a high bilge water alarm? If not, you should. Something on a separate float switch a couple inches higher than your normal bilge pump.

If you don't find out about high bilge water you can easily and quickly get to a point where the water is too deep to figure out what happened and fix it. If you know you're taking on water you can generally solve the problem.

If you know your boat is being flooded I assume you have seacocks that actually work? I also assume you have a set of plugs, and or one of those foam emergency plugs you can use?

So...

My method is warning. I have two high bilge water alarms. One forward and one aft of my engine rooms watertight bulkhead. These alarms go to a loud buzzer. They also go to my boats alarm system and I get a text within seconds if I'm not on the boat. I test these alarms frequently.

To mitigate a flooding event i have a set of wooden plugs, and one of those foam emergency plugs under the settee where I can get to them quickly.

I do not have yet but am going to add this season a stainless steel sump pump like the one I posted a photo of above. This pump or one like it will move 45 gallons per minute at a 5 foot lift. It has an AC motor that I'll wire to a dedicated circuit. Then, in an emergency all someone has to do is turn on the switch. If I'm not on the boat I can make one call to the harbor and within a couple of minutes someone can be on my boat and my pump can be running. No that pump at 45 gallons per minute is not the end all do all. Its job is to buy me time. Time to solve the problem. If I cant solve the problem time to calmly deploy my liferaft and call for help.

Kevin, like you said I'm more worried about some water line failing or sea oct failing. I'm not so worried about hitting something.

We do have high water bilge alarms. We too also have the wooden plugs incase of an emergency where a seacock failed.

But also another way for water to enter the ER is example of James Hamilton's knockdown, the water did not enter from below the water line, but through the ER vents. He had massive amounts of water come in, 2" above the oil pan. That's a lot of H20! So that's another possibility.
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:23 PM   #30
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99 percent of the time you have either too much capacity....or not enough.

Most damage control is about stemming the flow below your pumping capacity...no matter what it is.

Without material/tools to help stop major flooding or the knowledge on how to do it....that gets a little worrisome.

Early detection is vital...so is understanding free surface effect and progressive flooding.
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:51 PM   #31
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Greetings,
As well as the requisite wooden plugs, we keep a 5'X7' tarp which we "can" (maybe) deploy from the outside, held with ropes at the corners going around and under the hull to "cover" a large hole. This is the theory in any case. Good luck getting it to work BUT, the thought is there.
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Old 01-30-2015, 01:04 PM   #32
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The biggest joke is a manual bilge pump. Try filling your dinghy up with the dock hose while you are having lunch. Then after lunch, manually pump it out. There is a defibrillator on your dock, right?
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Old 01-30-2015, 01:41 PM   #33
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The idea of a high capacity sump pump, I believe, is the way to go. I would not use a "plug in" cord. I suggest using a well pump wiring configuration to keep the wire dry. At our place we have a "below ground" well house. From time to time, ground water rises to the point that it threatens the pressure switch & wiring. To counter this, I wired in a 11/2 inch 400 gpm 110ac sump pump. Works great.
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Old 01-30-2015, 05:28 PM   #34
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The idea of a high capacity sump pump, I believe, is the way to go. I would not use a "plug in" cord. I suggest using a well pump wiring configuration to keep the wire dry. At our place we have a "below ground" well house. From time to time, ground water rises to the point that it threatens the pressure switch & wiring. To counter this, I wired in a 11/2 inch 400 gpm 110ac sump pump. Works great.
Think you have something wrong. 400 gpm looks to be 4" discharge and at least 230 volt.

Ted
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Old 01-30-2015, 06:36 PM   #35
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Assuming your vessel has the bilge divided up with bulkheads, the pacer pump is only good for the compartment where the suction strainer is.
Will the pump (or its power supply) go underwater before it can be placed in service?
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Old 01-30-2015, 06:40 PM   #36
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Assuming your vessel has the bilge divided up with bulkheads, the pacer pump is only good for the compartment where the suction strainer is.
Will the pump (or its power supply) go underwater before it can be placed in service?

All compartments drain to the aft bilge. The pump will be at the same level as the generator. As soon as the high(er) water alarm sounds it will be engaged.
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Old 01-31-2015, 09:16 AM   #37
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I second using a FastFlow engine powered pump.

If you can keep the engine output shaft turning, you have a far better bilge pump than any electric pump. the neat thing about that way is that it is ALWAYS spinning when the engine is running, so any water hits the blades gets blown out.

If you put it on the prop shaft, it will pump water even if you're backing down.

Also, they make models that are split and can be installed without hauling the boat or changing the drive shafts, it simply clamps around your shaft, and the pump housing is split as well.

Nothing to turn on, crank up or winterize on those pumps.

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Old 01-31-2015, 10:02 AM   #38
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On my lit of projects is to re place the manual "gulper" and put in some electric Dc or Ac
unit.
I wonder what percentage of pleasure boats sink traveling out on the water Vs at anchor or the pier
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Old 01-31-2015, 11:07 AM   #39
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the majority of pleasure boats sink at the dock, and the most common culprit is shore water and plumbing leaks... Always remember to either shut off the spigot or remove the hose to your boat when leaving it for any reasonable duration.
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Old 01-31-2015, 11:19 AM   #40
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Quote:
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On my lit of projects is to re place the manual "gulper" and put in some electric Dc or Ac
unit.
I wonder what percentage of pleasure boats sink traveling out on the water Vs at anchor or the pier
from my experience...

....that pure stat won't mean much.

the same failure while underway may not sink you because someone is monitoring the situation where it may sink you at the dock...or vice versa.

I have been on many cases where the boat is sinking ...then stops sinking. Why? Because the seas or engine was filling the boat and when the engine quits...both the sea and/or the engine stops filling the boat.

Same with ruptured fresh water tanks....they normally won't sink a boat unless it changes the trim somehow and allows progressive flooding. A must to understand when it comes to flooding emergencies.

Flat out...most sink at the dock...but if all things equal and they were underway to make it a 50/50 stat....the reasons may change significantly.

Plus you have the "almost" sunk.....not sure how you would get that and how it may help answer your question.
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