Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-09-2016, 08:15 AM   #1
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,806
Electronically controlled hydraulic steering

I have basically gone to steering my boat with the autopilot remote control in almost all situations. The remote is hardwired and can turn the rudder faster and easier than I can. I'm curious how many others are doing this and if you have had pump or electronic failures. In my setup, the pump can be isolated from the system by closing 3 quarter turn valves. I feel this (using the mechanical helm) gives me some redundancy. Trying to estimate pump and electronic controls life expectancy. Any failure experiences with this equipment would be appreciated.

Ted
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 08:27 AM   #2
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
All I say is it's very rare for an autopilot pump to fail.
__________________

Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 08:34 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Steve DAntonio's Avatar
 
City: Deltaville
Country: United States
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 108
OC

This isn't unusual at all for larger (over 50 feet), displacement motor yachts. Just about every Nordhavn I've ever been aboard over 50 feet is run this way, using the AP as "power steering". Having said that, most have a very robust AP system with large after-market pumps, typically Accu-Steer, and Simrad or Furuno APs, and quite often there are two of them, for redundancy (only one is used at a time).

The isolation valves are a veritable prerequisite, by the way, so I'm glad to hear your system has them, many installers omit this feature. Make sure they are rated for 1000 psi, which is the standard relief pressure of most manual hydraulic steering systems. 1000 psi valves are not available in bronze, only steel/stainless steel, so if yours are copper colored they are probably 600 psi (most valves have the pressure rating embossed on the body, '600 wog' or '1000 wog' for instance). These under-rated valves rarely fail catastrophically, instead the valve stem seals simply leak chronically.

With a few exceptions, and with the aforementioned caveats, this system can be quite reliable.
__________________
Steve D'Antonio
Steve DAntonio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 08:46 AM   #4
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,187
The only time I hand steer is in a narrow, straight fairway, and even then I'll more often than not run in Auto mode with the AP. Otherwise I always steer via the AP. I use Nav mode when underway between points A and B, Auto mode when steering into any area where I don't have a route set up, including entering anchorages and harbors, some of which have very narrow entrances. And I use the Follow-up steering controls for all close-in maneuvering.

I had one AP pump failure on my last boat. It was a Raymarine Type 2 reversing pump. I couldn't find a replacement locally, so went ahead and took the pump and motor apart, and am glad I did. One of the motor brush wires had broken off, and 5 minutes later I had it soldered back on and the pump was working again. Saved me the better part of a boat-buck.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 09:14 AM   #5
Guru
 
mbevins's Avatar
 
City: Windsor
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Keeper IV
Vessel Model: 44 Viking ACMY
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,305
I'm the same way. I always use the AP. Use it the same method as Twistedtree. Couldn't imagine life without it.
__________________
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

mbevins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 09:38 AM   #6
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,360
The remote control units on a tether can fail at the wire connection points, seldom though but a bit of reinforcing at that point wouldn't hurt. The helm chair hard wired jog units seem popular too. I can't sit long enough in the helm chair though to justify one, too ADD.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 10:05 AM   #7
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,882
I too steer with AP almost exclusively. Probably 2000hrs on the ap pump. About every 200hrs the commutator on the Simrad pump motor clogs with copper and brush dust and it trips on overcurrent. I've learned to pop the cap off the motor and clean it out. Not sure why it does this, but it is irritating. A new pump is in my future.

I did not bother to install valves on pump. A failure in the hydraulic seems very rare and if it did happen I have caps so lines can be disconnected and plugged.

I've seen more valves leak than pumps fail. Motors, different story, but that won't inop the system.
Ski in NC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 10:07 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
ddalme's Avatar
 
City: LAFAYETTE,LA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Relenti
Vessel Model: Atlantic 30, 1983
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 406
Use my AP all the time when not having to make hard turns or close maneuvering.
ddalme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 10:21 AM   #9
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddalme View Post
Use my AP all the time when not having to make hard turns or close maneuvering.
Depending on the controls you have, using the AP for hard turns and close in maneuvering can be one of it's best applications. You need a follow-up or jog lever control, but with that, the AP can typically swing the rudder much faster than you can by hand with the wheel. My steering is 10 turns stop to stop, so turning it full swing by hand is quite the production.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 10:43 AM   #10
Guru
 
mbevins's Avatar
 
City: Windsor
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Keeper IV
Vessel Model: 44 Viking ACMY
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
I too steer with AP almost exclusively. Probably 2000hrs on the ap pump. About every 200hrs the commutator on the Simrad pump motor clogs with copper and brush dust and it trips on overcurrent. I've learned to pop the cap off the motor and clean it out. Not sure why it does this, but it is irritating. A new pump is in my future.

I did not bother to install valves on pump. A failure in the hydraulic seems very rare and if it did happen I have caps so lines can be disconnected and plugged.

I've seen more valves leak than pumps fail. Motors, different story, but that won't inop the system.
Thanks Ski....one more thing to add to my growing maintenance list. Completely forgot about that motor.
__________________
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

mbevins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 01:25 PM   #11
Guru
 
Moonfish's Avatar


 
City: Port Townsend, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Traveler
Vessel Model: Cheoy Lee 46 LRC
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 698
I really should get our old Furuno AP to work. We've hand-steered over 3,000 miles in 4 years...
__________________
Darren
Port Townsend, WA
m/v Traveler - '79 Cheoy Lee 46 LRC
http://www.pacificnwboater.com
Moonfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 01:28 PM   #12
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,806
My system is a Simrad AP20 with an AP21 remote. There is also a Jog stick at the stern docking station.

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN1543.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	62.9 KB
ID:	51730

The system is now about 14 years old except for the remote which came from Simrad in 12/2013. Valving is all stainless on top of a Hynautic steering system. There is only about 1,500 hours on the system, but it's still 14 years old. Didn't see anything I liked better than what I had at the 2015 Miami boat show. Guess I'll stay with what I have till something quits.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 01:31 PM   #13
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,783
I piloted my boat this way 90% of the time. Often it was on AP, and I just tweaked the course very now and then. Ann likes to use the big wheel.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 02:46 PM   #14
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,420
This thread has been very interesting to me as "I never thought of using the A/P for just steering." I have the Raymarine EV200 that has a control knob and steering (when not using "auto or "Track") should be a piece of cake. I always felt more secure with using the helm while in the harbor or close quarters. Even the a/p instructions suggest that going to "standby" is the preferred routine when in a harbor.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1578.jpg
Views:	52
Size:	94.6 KB
ID:	51732  
__________________
Codger2

My passion for improving my boat(s) exceeds my desire to constantly cruise them.
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 03:36 PM   #15
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codger2 View Post
This thread has been very interesting to me as "I never thought of using the A/P for just steering." I have the Raymarine EV200 that has a control knob and steering (when not using "auto or "Track") should be a piece of cake. I always felt more secure with using the helm while in the harbor or close quarters. Even the a/p instructions suggest that going to "standby" is the preferred routine when in a harbor.
My lock to lock is 7 turns or about 15 seconds with the AP pump. The remote has buttons and a knob to turn the rudder. It takes a little practice, but far more responsive than cranking the helm port and starboard. If you're navigating an area with lots of turns, it's so much easier to steer.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 07:52 PM   #16
Guru
 
mbevins's Avatar
 
City: Windsor
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Keeper IV
Vessel Model: 44 Viking ACMY
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codger2 View Post
This thread has been very interesting to me as "I never thought of using the A/P for just steering." I have the Raymarine EV200 that has a control knob and steering (when not using "auto or "Track") should be a piece of cake. I always felt more secure with using the helm while in the harbor or close quarters. Even the a/p instructions suggest that going to "standby" is the preferred routine when in a harbor.
Must say that while I stated earlier the extent if my AP use when I enter the harbor I turn it off.
__________________
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

mbevins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 08:07 PM   #17
Guru
 
hmason's Avatar
 
City: Westport, CT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Magic
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46 Europa
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,890
We use the AP most of the time. It's a Garmin AP with a Garmin pump. The remote is wireless however its range is less than I hoped for. It's fine on the FB and at the lower helm, but walk to the bow and you are out of range. One other deficiency is that the remote has buttons for 1 degree turns and for 10 degree turns. There is no tactile difference between them and I did hit the wrong buttons once in awhile. I have since glued a piece of felt to the 10 degree buttons to make them easily discernible. Haven't made a mistake since doing that.
__________________
Howard
Magic, 1996 Grand Banks Europa
Westport, CT and Stuart, FL
hmason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 08:09 PM   #18
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,360
Don't sweat it Walt, you have a superior slow speed steering set up as compared to using a jog stick or AP wheel in harbor.

Fortunately with twins, our need for sudden large rudder movements when in harbor is negated. I seldom use or need more than few degrees when in tight quarters, maybe 15 when using the engines as a stern thruster around the docks.

When entering harbor we turn the AP off. The rudder is normally centered and engine's forward, neutral and reverse used to steer. Kinda like a Zeus drive with a bit of practice
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 10:11 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Capt. Jon's Avatar
 
City: Alabama
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Waypoint
Vessel Model: Californian 48' CPMY
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
My system is a Simrad AP20 with an AP21 remote. There is also a Jog stick at the stern docking station.

Attachment 51730

The system is now about 14 years old except for the remote which came from Simrad in 12/2013. Valving is all stainless on top of a Hynautic steering system. There is only about 1,500 hours on the system, but it's still 14 years old. Didn't see anything I liked better than what I had at the 2015 Miami boat show. Guess I'll stay with what I have till something quits.

Ted
We have the exact same system as you. It is the only way to steer the boat. If it went out tomorrow Id be upset! The AP 20 is strictly stand alone. Love it that way. Sometimes when the sun is really bad through the front of the fly bridge I sit up on an area that is raised at the back and run the boat. This makes it much safer as the sun is then just above the Bimini.
__________________
Jon
------------------------------------------------
Waypoint's are abstract, often having no obvious relationship to any distinctive features of the real world.
Capt. Jon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2016, 07:12 AM   #20
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,515
We use an engine driven pump for steering and AP.

A belt failure is easier to replace than an electric system failure.

Bonus,, the pump will operate the hyd windlass at idle for most anchor recovery loads.

KISS
__________________

FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012