Electo scan, microphor processor or tank

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swampu

Guru
Commercial Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
1,384
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Cajun Rose
Vessel Make
Biloxi Lugger
Hey guys, *Im going to be deciding on a

holding tank

type 1 (free electo scan, needs some repair)

Type 2 unit most likely the ahead unit or a unit produced by sevin marine.

*Any body use the raritan electro scan unit with any sucess? * I'm not in a marina so pump out is not an option. *I would like to think I am going to be going out past the 3 mile limit but more often then not I'll be rolling around the coast here with some trips to the barrier islands.*
 
I know it sounds weird but there are also composting heads. I've heard and read positive things, don't know if I'm ready to "go" there yet though!
 
I might be wrong, but from what I remember, the 3 mile out thing starts measuring from Ship Island and not from the beach in Gulfport/Biloxi area.
 
I've installed and used electro-scan units on my last two boats.

I would not have a boat without a waste processing system.

These are relativly easy to install and are fantastic to have on board. The tech support at Raritan is top notch.

On our latest boat we installed a hold n treat system with a purasan. this gives us the ability to hold waste in a small tank where mandated, and to treat and discharge it where its legal. It also works with our two vacuflush heads.

*

*
 
I've never used one but Raritan has been making treatment systems for a very long time now. First the Electro San and now the improved Electro Scan. The very early Electro San had some problems but I haven't heard any complaints in many years. I think they've got it figured out. Raritan are nice folks to deal with as well. If you decide to buy a new one, I'd like the opportunity to quote you on it.
 
Tony B wrote:
I might be wrong, but from what I remember, the 3 mile out thing starts measuring from Ship Island and not from the beach in Gulfport/Biloxi area.
No, I believe your right. *That is why I would like to go with a processing system. *$3-$4k for a microphor system seams like a lot.*
 
We have a 4 person Microphor for when out an about, and a 55 gallon tank for when in the marina which is 99.9% of the time.* There is a Y valve to switch from the Microphor to the holding tank The old Everett Marina has a pump out boat that comes each week to pumps the tank out and the New Everett marina has a pump out at each dock.*
*
The Microphor requires not electricity as it uses the natural bacteria in the waste, like a septic tank, and a chlorine chamber the waste passes through before over board.* the system is all gravity feed.* So all you have to do is start using it.* However when I know we are not going to use it for a long period of time I do rinse it out.*
*
*
 
These systems are not cheap and also note, they are not legal everywhere. Mobile Bay used to be a zero discharge zone and believe it still is. That means ZERO. Not even spit can go overboard. You can 't even wash your boat in Mobile Bay. If you are going to process your waste, it is best to have another "Y" valve to give you the choice of 'overboard discharge' or send it to your waste tank.
Anyway, I'm through talking s**t. Have a nice day. LOL
 
Paul

I'm offshore at work right now and this platform has a lot of sites blocked. Photo Bucket is one of them.
When I get back on land, I will look up your site and see your progress.
We are litterally at the very tail end of this wet mess that you are in the middle of. Can't seem to get anything done with all the rain.
Stay Dry
 
Ksanders, I looked up the raritan hold and treat. This is exactly what i'm looking for. I have an old raritan unit but with the holding tank I think that will be perfect. Tony, this rain has got me back on the boat. I've been working pretty steady lately (construction 6 days a week) haven't had much time for the ol' girl. Rain got me back in the engine room. I'm going to try to run my old free raritan box and see if it works, finish working out the bugs on my genset port and hopefully crank one of the mains today. I better get to work instead of talking about it.
 
At our cottage in CT , as we are lake front a new septic field is verboten, and the hook up to the city is over 20K with never ending monthly bills.

We installed a Natures Head , as many many boats do and it is great.

No mess , no smell, and under a boat buck , delivered.

Would not hesitate to install one in a boat , would be great in FL or on the loop, as both have no discharge areas where the msd would be illegal to use.
 
The composting heads I've seen separate liquids (urine) from solids which compost. What happens to the liquid?
 
Anypne know what actually goes on in an electro-san unit?* It seems to me that they generate a little clorine from electric and sea water.* Macerate the stuff and pump it overboard within the regs.

What would be different if your holding tank received macerated poop, and pumped it overboard through another macerator.... and if you added some clorine bleach and let it sit a few hours before you pumped..????

Seems to me you have a manual lectra-san.

What am I missing?
 
I have a Microphor system which is*an aerobic bacterial composting system which works flawlessly.* The down side is the size of the composting tank which takes up considerable*space in the engine room.* In something larger than a 40' boat or a single engine 40' foot boat, it would be great.*

But it's still a great system and still Coast Guard approved after 35 years.
biggrin.gif


Larry B
 
RickB wrote:psneeld wrote:What am I missing?
*USCG approval.

*sort of...the way I read the reg one time I thought that if the effluent met the "standard" then you were OK...I know the device is supposed to meet USCG approval...but I saw it as a catch 22 item for them.

I'll have to reread it tomorrow..just wanted to see if anyone was really up on the subject.


-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 23rd of March 2012 08:03:09 PM
 
KSanders - The Raritan Hold n' Treat sounds like what I'm looking for too.* But I have an issue finding a very low spot for the combo tank.* How critical is it that the top of the tank unit is below the head?
 
I would suspect Rick is correct as I have a letter of*approval for my Microphor system which extends the certification to October 2013 and says in part,*

US Coast Guard, Commanding *officer, USCG, Marine Safety Center.*

USCG Recertification of type II Maine Sanitation Device (MSD)

Given no modifications have been made, the models specified below continue to meet the requirement of Title 33,*Code of Federal Regulations DFR, Part 159 and shall be labeled in accordance with 33 CFR 159.16.

Then it lists the Models approved,*Certification No.*and Expiration Dates.*

Signed by Lt. Commander T.E. Meyers, USCG, Engineering Division

Larry B
 
Edelweiss wrote:
I would suspect Rick is correct as I have a letter of*approval for my Microphor system which extends the certification to October 2013 and says in part,*

US Coast Guard, Commanding *officer, USCG, Marine Safety Center.*

USCG Recertification of type II Maine Sanitation Device (MSD)

Given no modifications have been made, the models specified below continue to meet the requirement of Title 33,*Code of Federal Regulations DFR, Part 159 and shall be labeled in accordance with 33 CFR 159.16.

Then it lists the Models approved,*Certification No.*and Expiration Dates.*

Signed by Lt. Commander T.E. Meyers, USCG, Engineering Division

Larry B
*Yeah...just did some rereading...it discusses the standard which isn't hard to meet...but then does say that they have to be certified...doesn't mean I couldn't apply for certification... it's not worth the hassel but sure would make life easier sometimes!

*Just wish the states would spend some of their boating money on installing, fixing and maintaining pumpout systems.


-- Edited by psneeld on Saturday 24th of March 2012 05:34:11 AM
 
psneeld wrote:Yeah...just did some rereading...it discusses the standard which isn't hard to meet...but then does say that they have to be certified...doesn't mean I couldn't apply for certification...
*The standard may not be hard to meet but the process to achieve those standards can be very difficult to document and prove. Note the number of devices built into a LectraSan to monitor proper operation, your good intentions are not an acceptable equivalent.
 
RickB wrote:psneeld wrote:Yeah...just did some rereading...it discusses the standard which isn't hard to meet...but then does say that they have to be certified...doesn't mean I couldn't apply for certification...
*The standard may not be hard to meet but the process to achieve those standards can be very difficult to document and prove. Note the number of devices built into a LectraSan to monitor proper operation, your good intentions are not an acceptable equivalent.

*Ther reason the devices are complicated and difficult to manufacture*is because they are automated for idiots.

I agree that certifying an automated device which I'm sure the USCG wants is very difficult otherwise there would be more and cheaper models out there.

So I'll leave it at that.



-- Edited by psneeld on Saturday 24th of March 2012 07:18:33 AM


-- Edited by psneeld on Saturday 24th of March 2012 07:19:25 AM
 
Gemma wrote:
KSanders - The Raritan Hold n' Treat sounds like what I'm looking for too.* But I have an issue finding a very low spot for the combo tank.* How critical is it that the top of the tank unit is below the head?
*I'd call Vic over at Raritan about that one.

My first thought is that waste flows downhill.
hmm.gif
 
Only boats 66'+ LOA need a Type II...so unless your boat is at least 66'you're better off with an Electro Scan (or PuraSan if your toilet uses fresh water)...'cuz Type II is a LOT more expensive, requires a LOT more maintenance, yet the only thing it does even as well as an ElectroScan or PuraSan, much less any better, is reduce the level of particulate matter. While the law only requires Type I to reduce bacteria count to a a max of 1000/100 ml, the ElectroScan and PuraSan actually reduce it to
Mobile Bay is NOT a NDZ and never has been....in fact, there aren't ANY Mississippi waters on the EPA list of NDZs. http://water.epa.gov/polwaste/vwd/vsdnozone.cfm There are only two NDZs on the whole Gulf of Mexico, both in FL waters--Destin Harbor and the Keys. The discharge of treated waste from a USCG certified device is legal everywhere else. And btw, "no discharge" laws ONLY apply to sewage ("Sewage means human body wastes and the wastes from toilets and other receptacles intended to receive or retain body waste)...they do not apply to gray water, bilge water, boat washing or ANYthing else. And ONLY the feds can declare a body of water an NDZ. The feds did make several small areas of the FL Keys National Marine Sanctuary (all clearly marked on a charts) specially protected waters in which ONLY engine cooling water can go overboard...but that's to protect sensitive reefs and doesn't apply anywhere else.

That doesn't mean, however, that there aren't any misguided marinas who made themselves "no discharge" in the mistaken belief that they're "doing the right thing" (when in fact the discharge from a treatment device is actually cleaner than the water in any marina!)...Marinas are private property and make any rules they want to as long they don't violate federal law.

And as for where any "3 mile limits" begin... they extend 3 miles in any direction from the nearest land OR island...so if Ship Island is more than 3 miles from the mainland, the 3 mile limit extends 3 miles from the beach AND 3 miles from the island. All the waters that are between are outside the "3 mile limit."

Catalina Island in SoCal is a great example...the 3 mile limit extends 3 miles from the mainland and also 3 miles from the island...leaving 20 of the famous 26 miles between them outside any 3 mile limit except for the waters around any other island you might pass on your way.

Re the Raritan 'Hold 'n' Treat system: it's not necessary to buy their "bundle"...the controls can be retrofitted to use with any existing holding tank and overboard discharge pump--and the treatment device of course. And btw, Ronco Plastics http://www.ronco-plastics.net/marinetanks.html (no relation to the VegoMatic Ronco) supplies 99% of Raritan's holding tanks...they sell direct for a LOT less than Raritan's prices!

You'll love having the freedom from pumpouts...even from tank maintenance unless you stumble over a "no discharge" marina or cruise to Destin Harbor!
 
Just wish the states would spend some of their boating money on installing, fixing and maintaining pumpout systems.

Whatever for?

Folks are pretty responsible , yet municapilities are delighted to have "an emergency" every year decade after decade, and dump millions of gallons into places like the Long Island Sound on a timetable.
 
Hmm,* Good information Peggy.

But I think I will stick with my type II Microphor.* I don't know what they cost now, but well worth the cost considering the simplicity of operation. No moving parts, no pumps, no electrical and maintenance is adding one cup of swimming pool chlorine tablets to a flow through chlorinator once a year.* I did open the inspection plate about 5 years ago and there was nothing in it after 30 years of use.* Amazing!!

I wish I could say the same for the heads.* Macerater pump, associated electrical, seals and salt water equals pain in the butt!!
biggrin.gif


Larry B
 
Depending on when you bought it, your Microphor MIGHT actually be* a Type I....they did make a Type I* in the mid-90s but discontinued it after only a very few years.

Macerater pump, associated electrical, seals and salt water equals pain in the butt!!

Not when good quality equipment is installed correctly and operated and maintained according to directions.

...doesn't mean I couldn't apply for certification...

Only if you want to build the device and pay for an approved independent lab to do the testing, then submit those test results to the* CG...and every 5 years, pay a lab to retest it and resubmit it for certification. I think you'll find it a lot easier and cheaper to install a proven device from a reputable mfr.

I agree that certifying an automated device which I'm sure the USCG wants is very difficult otherwise there would be more and cheaper models out there.

Not the reason at all. It's the enviro-nazis, not the certification process, that's prevented the development of better and cheaper treatment devices. Every year for 5 consecutive years, US Congressman Jim Saxton (R-NJ) introduced a bill that would have lowered the legal* bacteria count for Type I and II devices from their current levels to a max of 10/100 ml, and allow any vessel equipped with a device that meets that standard (btw, the Raritan LectraSan, PuraSan and ElectroScan, and the Groco ThermoPure all do meet that proposed new standard) to use 'em in ALL waters including NDZs....none of 'em ever even made it out of committee to the House floor...the environmental lobby who wants the whole world to be an NDZ--headed by Ed McKiernan, recently retired president of SeaLand Technology (yes, those wonderful folks who also make the VacuFlush) blocked it every year. He finally gave up.* You can read his last try here: http://www.theorator.com/bills108/hr1027.html** So the REAL reason there are no new treatment devices is because no mfr is gonna invest a penny in R&D for a device that, if the enviro-nuts are successful,* they may never be able to market. You'll get a good idea of what Raritan and other equipment mfrs have been up against by reading this: McKiernan-Husick MSD White Paper & rebuttal

But I have an issue finding a very low spot for the combo tank.* How critical is it that the top of the tank unit is below the head?

It's a common issue and there are workarounds if it 's not possible...call Raritan.* 800-352-5630 x 6.* Vic Willman has retired after 40 years there....ask for Jerry.

The Nature's Head composting toilet meets all "No Discharge" regulations and is a U.S Coast Guard Approved type III marine head. USCG Certification

Fred...* Federal law defines a Type III as "a device that is designed to prevent the overboard discharge of treated or untreated sewage or any waste derived from sewage"* and ANY device that meets that definition--even a coffee can!-- is automatically a USCG certified Type III MSD....no testing, no actual certification required.

And btw, the AirHead and Nature's Head are actually dessicators, not composters.

...yet municapilities are delighted to have "an emergency" every year decade after decade, and dump millions of gallons into places like the Long Island Sound on a timetable.

Every YEAR??? Where have you been, Fred...that happens every time it rains! If you like composters and dessicators, you'll LOVE incinerators...check these out:* - I N C I N O L E T - * ** <a href="http://www.thezld.com/">The ZLD
</a>Trust me, you don't want to be downwind of either one!






-- Edited by HeadMistress on Sunday 25th of March 2012 01:41:19 PM
 
Peggie, You sure have the scoop on poop. I have learned a lot from your reply's. I have an electro-san device which needs repair. Can I send it back to the factory to get checked over and do I need some sort of certification on board? Can the factory test it or should I just order parts and make it work? What I would like to do is run the electro-san device into a holding tank and have a switch to pump out the holding tank all at once. While underway. If I pipe all the sinks and shower water into this holding tank then I should meet the no discharge requirement. Thanks for your help and I saved that web site with all the plastic tanks. Paul
 
Greetings,
Oooooohhh Ms. HeadMistress. you used the "N" word (enviro n*****). Mr. rwidman is gonna poop on ya. (see color me gone thread page 3). Not trying to pick on you Ms. HM, your contributions here have been above invaluable. Just trying to point out the ludicrousness of some peoples sensitivities. VERY sorry for the high-jack.* Where's OTDE when you need it?


-- Edited by RT Firefly on Sunday 25th of March 2012 02:17:52 PM
 
You know Peggie, for years you've been giving us the "straight poop" and for years I've imagined you as a scruffy old lady, dressed in a white overall chem-suit, with long rubber gloves and a full-face gas mask armed with the latest and greatest bacteria fighting device.

Now I see your avatar and I've gotta say, "You really clean up nice!!"
 

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