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05-02-2013, 09:13 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
City: Abbotsford
Vessel Name: Between boats
Vessel Model: 38' C & L Puget Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 204
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Do I need an accumulator tank?
question- just replaced my flo-jet pump 4406-143 and the paperwork says it "has a built in bypass valve eliminating the need for an accumulator tank" and not install it in a system with a tank as it would interfere with that valve. My system had a tank when I got the boat. Should I remove the tank? pump seems to work but a little slow to recover. old pump was a 4405-143
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05-02-2013, 09:31 AM
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#2
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Guru
City: Everett Wa
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
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The accumulator should not hurt just added protection for the pipes, and reduces the number of times the pump comes on.
The slower recover might be the difference in PSI. What PSI is the new pump and what PSI was the old. I prefer the 30 as it easier on the tubing, and wastes less water.
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05-02-2013, 09:51 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
City: Abbotsford
Vessel Name: Between boats
Vessel Model: 38' C & L Puget Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 204
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psi is the same. just newer model of the same pump but I thought this bypass might be a new feature where the old pump may have actually required a tank and this one not?? I thought an accululator tank was to eliminate air from the lines...reducing chatter etc..
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05-02-2013, 10:18 AM
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#4
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,738
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If you have room in your header tank for plenty of expansion the extra accumulator tank is unnecessary.
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Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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05-02-2013, 10:37 AM
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#5
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Guru
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,299
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The main purpose of an accumulator tanks is to prevent quick on / off cycling of the pump. If you open a faucet just a little your pump will turn on as soon as the pressure in the line drops below a certain point but because the pump puts out a lot more water than your faucet is, the pump quickly builds the pressure back and shuts off. This can happen very fast, one second on, one second off. With an accumulator tank in the line this on/off cycle takes longer and you are less likely to damage the pump or pressure switch.
Newer designed pumps actually vary the speed of the pump to match the demand and don't need the accumulator tank. In fact it seems to confuse them.
It sounds like they are using the bypass valve to accomplish the same thing by feeding the excess water back into the intake side of the pump. I'd have to look at the pump design to figure out just what they are doing.
If you don't need the tank why not remove it and free up some space?
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05-02-2013, 11:20 AM
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#6
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Master and Commander
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
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An accumulator needn't take much space.
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Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
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05-02-2013, 12:33 PM
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#7
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Guru
City: Hotel, CA
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,323
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Them pump engineers are pretty smart cookies. I'd heed their advice and lose the accumulator tank and let the pump function as designed.
I've been retrofitting many aging stationary facility plants lately and pump technology has come a long way in fifty years.
__________________
Craig
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
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05-02-2013, 04:40 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
City: Abbotsford
Vessel Name: Between boats
Vessel Model: 38' C & L Puget Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 204
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thanks..will bypass the tank and see what results
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05-02-2013, 06:51 PM
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#9
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Hospitality Officer
City: Pittwater
Vessel Name: Sarawana
Vessel Model: IG 36 Quad Cabin
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,896
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FWIW, I replaced my pump a couple of years ago, the new pump didn't require an accumulator tank and it seems to work well.
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05-02-2013, 08:46 PM
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#10
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Guru
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,299
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Damn you Mark, stop posting those pictures! You make me want to gut my boat and start over.
What's with the 6 position terminal strip for only two wires? Didn't WM have a 2 position strip? I know, cheap shot, but after looking at that beautiful layout I had to bitch about something!
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05-02-2013, 09:20 PM
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#11
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TF Site Team
City: California Delta
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: 1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,728
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Hopcar, I think that's for future expansion for power to up to 4 more pumps! I think it's great that Mark has a picture for everything...except pics of the inside of his beautiful Trinka.
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05-02-2013, 09:24 PM
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#12
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Master and Commander
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright
...except pics of the inside of his beautiful Trinka.
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Al, remind me to dock on my starboard side later this month in Petaluma.
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Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
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05-02-2013, 09:49 PM
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#13
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Guru
City: Hotel, CA
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar
Damn you Mark, stop posting those pictures! You make me want to gut my boat and start over.
What's with the 6 position terminal strip for only two wires? Didn't WM have a 2 position strip? I know, cheap shot, but after looking at that beautiful layout I had to bitch about something!
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Hey HopCar, I was aboard and toured the Coot Saturday afternoon in Stockton. Hard to believe with as many pictures Mark shares but the photo's do not do that boat justice! I could hardly believe the robust construction and attention to detail on it.
Problem is Perla gave my wife a comprehensive tour of the Coot and she fell in love with it. I suppose it wouldn't help telling my wife there are only 6 of them and none are currently for sale...
__________________
Craig
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
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05-02-2013, 10:04 PM
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#14
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Master and Commander
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym
Problem is Perla gave my wife a comprehensive tour of the Coot and she fell in love with it. I suppose it wouldn't help telling my wife there are only 6 of them and none are currently for sale...
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Craig, last I heard there were two more (#s 7 and 8) under construction. These are #s 5 and 6, however, pictured here:
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Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
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05-02-2013, 10:08 PM
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#15
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Guru
City: Hotel, CA
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,323
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Thanks for that Mark but I think we'll just enjoy Bliss for a while. Heading up this weekend to let Jennifer start to give it the ladies touch. She said after seeing your boat she's tired of my admittedly "Man Cave" decor choice for "our" boat.
__________________
Craig
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
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05-02-2013, 10:54 PM
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#16
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TF Site Team
City: Ex-Brisbane, (Australia), now Bribie Island, Qld
Vessel Name: Now boatless - sold 6/2018
Vessel Model: Had a Clipper (CHB) 34
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar
Damn you Mark, stop posting those pictures! You make me want to gut my boat and start over.
What's with the 6 position terminal strip for only two wires? Didn't WM have a 2 position strip? I know, cheap shot, but after looking at that beautiful layout I had to bitch about something!
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I know exactly what you mean Hopcar, whenever anyone posts engine room pics on here I cringe and feel very inferior...
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Pete
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05-03-2013, 03:05 AM
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#17
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Scraping Paint
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar
What's with the 6 position terminal strip for only two wires?
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More to the point, why are there exposed electrical connections?
Why on Earth install a terminal strip for that purpose in the first place?
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05-03-2013, 04:38 AM
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#18
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TF Site Team
City: Ex-Brisbane, (Australia), now Bribie Island, Qld
Vessel Name: Now boatless - sold 6/2018
Vessel Model: Had a Clipper (CHB) 34
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB
More to the point, why are there exposed electrical connections?
Why on Earth install a terminal strip for that purpose in the first place?
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Makes for quicker, easier changing of the water pump if it fails...? It is only 12v after all.
__________________
Pete
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05-03-2013, 06:08 AM
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#19
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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An accumulator tank does more than soften the pumps work.
It also has to absorb the water expanded by heating hot water.
AS our boats have HW heaters of 6-10gal that mat heat from 65F to 190F (engine or noisemaker water coil) the pressure can get quite high.
I assume the non accum. pumps simply bleed the pressure back into the water source.
I do not know if thew accum. shown on Coots install has a bladder .
If not the unit must be emptied about monthly to replace the air absorbed by the water in it.
With no way to pressurize it one of the biggest advantages of an accumulator is lost.
The ability to match the tank and pump pressure and get 1-3 gal of water with out the pump operating.
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05-03-2013, 06:47 AM
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#20
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Scraping Paint
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter B
Makes for quicker, easier changing of the water pump if it fails...?
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As opposed to a nice washdown proof Deutz (for example) or other commonly available connector that doesn't expose live electrical terminals and look like it was installed by an apprentice gardener?
Quote:
It is only 12v after all.
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