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Old 04-16-2013, 01:36 PM   #1
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DEfective Seacocks

In 2008, I decided to replace all the old '62 vintage seacocks on my Willard. Trying to use the best quality materials and desiring easier operation than the existing tapered puly Perkos, I chose GROCO brand, triangular base, ball valve type, seacocks.

Last year, I found out that Groco was recalling these valves as defective and that they were made in Aisa. Further, although Groco would supply new seacocks N/C, the old ones had to be returned first, and they would not pay for any charges associated with changing them out.

These valves are defective INTERNALLY, you can't tell from the outside and your first warning will be when they won't shut off when needed.

I will never purchase another thing from Groco, not because I expect better from a company around since clipper ship times, not because the valves were defective, but because these seacocks were not listed as imported, nor do they have any reasonable plan to warn and help customers change them out.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:13 PM   #2
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I sure hope they worked out their problems... I just put a bunch of them in my boat 9 months ago.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:31 PM   #3
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So Brooksie what are you going to replace it with?

I'm faced w that in a month or two.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:28 PM   #4
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I sure hope they worked out their problems... I just put a bunch of them in my boat 9 months ago.
Grocos? I would contact your supplier and have them find out if that batch is defective. The defective part is the pin that runs from the habdle to the ball. So when you go to close the valve, it is rusted off where it keys into the ball. You can't tell from the outside.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:38 PM   #5
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So Brooksie what are you going to replace it with?
I'm faced w/ that in a month or two.
I'm not sure... In my work (hyrdaulics) we used thousands of Apolo brand valves and never had a problem. They make a seacock. I just wish I had never changed them and then given them to a yardmate. I can get replacements free from Groco (if I can believe them) but they would be imported too. Maybe I'll put in the Apolos, return the Grocos, then sell the new Groco replacements to help defray costs.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:42 PM   #6
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You mentioned rust damage. Are the Groco seacocks in question not all-bronze?
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:25 AM   #7
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I believe they, Groco, use a SS ball. ALthough 316 that doesn't mean it's corrosion proof. It could be as Groco said that there was a goof up but that sounds like a lousy way to do things, leaving the boat out while awaiting replacements. Yard charges are not cheap and the vessel is out of commission.

The other mfgrs. seem to use a bronze ball, chromed, or in Perkos case a plastic ball, polymer. If that is like Marelon, a fiberglass reinforced nylon, that could be a good bet.

I still use the a mix of bronze ball valves, and through hulls so I'm behind. Two of them though are Apollos, marine ball valves and they have been good. I'm slowly changing them over.

The older taper type, Perko & Wilcox Crittendon, are gone and the older Groco with the rubber plugs are gone. They were good valves but not available for many years.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:56 AM   #8
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Ours are all bronze, tapered rotating shaft. Don't know the name offhand although I believe it is cast on the handle. Installed when the boat was built, 1973.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:12 AM   #9
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If you kept the origonals they are very easy to clean up .

Simply use fine valve grinding compound on the taper and move back and forth till the seal line is easy to see.

$3.00 of valve compound will do at least 100 sea cocks.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:41 AM   #10
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SERVICE-BULLETIN

MODELS: IBV, FBV, FV and TWV
GROCO's design for the imported valves series shown above specified a high-grade stainless steel valve stem. We have discovered that the stem material used in some of the valves manufactured between 2004 and 2006 may not have complied with our specifications. Valves with out-of-spec stems may not be suitable for salt-water use. Since the non-compliant silver color stems may fail when the valve is actuated we wish to have all such valves removed from service. GROCO will supply replacement valves at no charge.
WHAT YOU SHOULD DO:
Visually inspect the valve(s) on your boat. If the valve has a stainless steel stem (silver color), the valve should be replaced during the next scheduled haul-out.. Valves with a brass stem (yellow color) require no further action.
FAX GROCO 443-249-4030, ATTN: DEPT. 224 with your request for replacement valves.
Click here to send an E-mail. Provide the following information:
Your name, address, phone number and email-address
Boat manufacturer, model and hull number
Valve model(s), size(s) and quantity required
Return ship-to details
Purchase date and sales receipt copy

WHAT GROCO WILL DO:
Provide an RGA number and shipping instructions
Send no-charge replacements upon receipt of removed valves
IMPORTANT: To avoid any inconvenience, confirm with GROCO Department 224 the immediate availability of the model, size and quantity you need BEFORE removing valves and sending them to GROCO.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:49 AM   #11
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........... Maybe I'll put in the Apolos, return the Grocos, then sell the new Groco replacements to help defray costs.
If you believe they are defective, wouldn't that be a bit dishonest?

It's inconvenient and expensive to keep your boat out of the water waiting for a shipment of seacocks so why not ask if you can pay for the replacements, have them shipped, and receive credit when you ship the old ones back?
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:16 AM   #12
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"These valves are defective INTERNALLY, you can't tell from the outside and your first warning will be when they won't shut off when needed."

As psneeld pointed out you can tell from the outside by the color of the stem. I would have no problem installing current production Groco seacocks.

If you decide to go with the Apollo seacocks, be aware that their economy line are not full flow valves.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:36 AM   #13
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Quote:
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If you kept the origonals they are very easy to clean up .
Simply use fine valve grinding compound on the taper and move back and forth till the seal line is easy to see.
$3.00 of valve compound will do at least 100 sea cocks.
Yes I know, done it b/4, wish I had kept them.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:37 AM   #14
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If you decide to go with the Apollo seacocks, be aware that their economy line are not full flow valves.
Noticed that...
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:41 AM   #15
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If you believe they are defective, wouldn't that be a bit dishonest?
I was assuming that the replacements won't be defective of course.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:46 AM   #16
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psneeld

Service bulletin very interesting.

If however they are now going to use a brass stem as they say, I don't want them either.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:03 AM   #17
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I replaced all the below waterline thruhulls and seacocks with Perko.
Almost went with the Groco. If I had I would probably be faced with the same dilemma. So far so good with the Perko.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:10 AM   #18
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I replaced all the below waterline thruhulls and seacocks with Perko.
Almost went with the Groco. If I had I would probably be faced with the same dilemma. So far so good with the Perko.
You dodged a bullet... Your stems look bronze. I could just as easily chosen Perko and avoided the problem, luck of the draw.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:55 PM   #19
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Brooksie, The stems of the Groco seacocks never touch water. Apollo also uses a brass stem. Because they never get wet, it doesn't seem to be an issue.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:05 AM   #20
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Brooksie, The stems of the Groco seacocks never touch water. Apollo also uses a brass stem. Because they never get wet, it doesn't seem to be an issue.
Explain please... With all due respect. If that were the case, there would not have been an issue with the Groco's stems. There would be no need for an Oring on the stem of any ball velve. The stems do get wet. Apollo's stems are bronze not brass; all the difference.
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