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Old 04-18-2013, 05:59 AM   #21
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To me all these replacements that use a SS ball are imitations of real sea cocks.

SS ,in the open position , unmoved under water inside the housing is oxygen starved and will slowly dissolve , leaving what to seal?

Many are so cheaply built that they wont even pass the diameter of the feed pipe to them.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:38 AM   #22
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All the ball type seacocks I have seen have chrome plated bronze balls.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:15 PM   #23
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BV Series - Safety Seacock

Groco

BV Series
Full-Flow Flanged Ball-Type Safety Seacock


ri-flange base and mount hole pattern provide easy retrofit when replacing most popular brands.
Patented selectable handle rotation
Handle has square hole to accept standard ratchet, to help reach valves in hard-to-reach locations and ease actuation of difficult to operate valves.
Full pipe-size flow.
Stainless steel ball and stem.
PTFE seats and seals.
Serviceable while installed.
Drain Plug on both sides.
Base has bonding attachment
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:31 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
Brooksie, The stems of the Groco seacocks never touch water. Apollo also uses a brass stem. Because they never get wet, it doesn't seem to be an issue.
In the fully open and fully closed positions, the PTFE seals around the ball will keep prevent the contents from getting into the stem. It is during the transaction from open/close and close/open that contents will get around the ball, and into stem area.

See what happens to the PTFE seal on an old valve, when you forget to cock the valve open a little, when you are removing a valve that is soldered into place on a water pipe.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:16 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
BV Series - Safety Seacock

Groco

BV Series
Full-Flow Flanged Ball-Type Safety Seacock

ri-flange base and mount hole pattern provide easy retrofit when replacing most popular brands.
Patented selectable handle rotation
Handle has square hole to accept standard ratchet, to help reach valves in hard-to-reach locations and ease actuation of difficult to operate valves.
Full pipe-size flow.
Stainless steel ball and stem.
PTFE seats and seals.
Serviceable while installed.
Drain Plug on both sides.
Base has bonding attachment
I stand corrected... This, and the fact that they claim they are now using a brass stem, proves to me Groco has totally lost its way. I'll be sure to look for valves with chrome bronze ball and bronze stem this time.
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:44 PM   #26
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Hi Guys,
As many of you know, I own a marine supply store. I sell both Apollo and Groco seacocks. The only seacocks we've ever had a problem with are the 2-1/2" Apollos and that was many years ago. The stem was just too small and they twisted off.

I happen to know Don Gross, the owner of Groco, so I wrote him about this conversation. Following is his reply.

Dear Parks,

When we began importing some valve models from China #304 SS material was specified for the valve stem, the same material we use in our domestic production BV, SBV, and SBV-P series valves. We found that the material we specified was not consistent, hence the recall, which took place almost 10-years ago. We provided n/c replacement valves to anyone that had IBV, FBV, FV or TWV valves with stainless steel stem. We continue to offer a no-charge replacement though the warranty has long since expired. Stems in production valves were changed to brass, and we have not had a single problem since. Similarly, we have not had a problem ever with the SS stems we use for our domestic production valves.

Im sorry your customer is dissatisfied with us, but fortunately he/she has choices. They may choose our domestic valves (SS ball and stem) or valves made by others. The customer will likely learn that other manufacturers also use brass stems and chrome plated balls, and some even use brass for the top nut in the valve body. We prefer SS and bronze, but the reliability of these materials from overseas sources makes brass a more reliable, and therefore safer choice. If domestic valves are selected there is an obvious cost impact, but happily the customer can choose no need to be unhappy.

Regards,
GROCO
Don


I happen to have some very old Apollo seacocks on my boat. If I ever replace them I would probably chose the Groco FBV. They incorporate a couple of nice features that the Apollo doesn't have. I think Groco, Apollo and Perko all put out a great product and I would not be unhappy with any of their seacocks.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:31 PM   #27
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HopCar
Thanks for the research on my behalf.

As we all have mentioned before, SS suffers from crevice corrosion and brass from de-zincafication. So, notwithstanding Mr. Gross' comments, I'll stay away from both below the waterline and select all bronze this time which must be available from some knowledgeable manufacturer.

Fool me once.................
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:53 PM   #28
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Brooksie I'm pretty sure the stem and top nut on the Apollo seacocks are brass as well. They are yellow not the red color of the body that we know is bronze.

You might check with Perko. They use a plastic ball which should be ok and I'm not sure what their stem is. They're nice folks, send them an email. I'll be away from my computer for a few days or I'd do it for you. I'm going to Cape Kennedy to look at rockets and get in some fishing.

Have you checked your Groco valves to see if they are part of the recall? You bought yours two years after the last recalled ones hit the market.
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:32 AM   #29
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The reason common brass instead of bronze is used is it is easier (faster) to machine.

Free machining brass valve stems is the reason most shun common gate valves.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:58 PM   #30
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Brooksie I'm pretty sure the stem and top nut on the Apollo seacocks are brass as well. They are yellow not the red color of the body that we know is bronze.
You might check with Perko. They use a plastic ball which should be ok and I'm not sure what their stem is. They're nice folks, send them an email. I'll be away from my computer for a few days or I'd do it for you. I'm going to Cape Kennedy to look at rockets and get in some fishing.
Have you checked your Groco valves to see if they are part of the recall? You bought yours two years after the last recalled ones hit the market.
I did check my valves.
Apollo spec. sheet: "All bronze wetted parts" "Chrome bronze ball"
Emailed Perko: No answer
From: Buck Algonquin
Good morning,
The ball is hard chrome on brass. The stem is also brass. If you need any further information, please contact Steve Gaston (Engineering) at stevegaston@buckalgonquin.com. Thank you for the inquiry!
Best Regards,
Lee DeBaca
Sales Manager
410.643.7145 Ph
410.643.7777 Fx
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:40 PM   #31
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I received a reply from Perko on their ball valve materials.
The ball is acetal plastic and the stem is brass-C3600.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:20 PM   #32
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Apollo Conbraco replied.

The stem is a wetted part and is made of silicone bronze.

Tony Helms
Tech Support Manager
Conbraco Ind. Inc.

It looks like Apollo is the only one of the companies that we've looked at that uses a bronze stem.

That said the only ball valve type seacocks I've seen with a broken stem was a few 2-1/2" Apollo seacocks and that was many years ago.

In the real world the brass stems don't seem to be a problem.
I would be glad to put any Groco, Apollo, Buck Algonquin or Perko seacock on my boat.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:29 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
I received a reply from Perko on their ball valve materials.
The ball is acetal plastic and the stem is brass-C3600.
WTF, I got a different answer...

Hello,
The material for the ball is Acetel Poly plastic
The stem is made of cast bronze
Regards,
Manny Apaza
mapaza@perko.com
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:16 AM   #34
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Strange. C3600 seems to be one suppliers part number for C36000 brass.
C36000 brass is about 62% copper and 35% zinc plus some lead, iron and other stuff.
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