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Old 05-21-2012, 07:33 PM   #21
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Besides one's own safety, I think it boils down to insurance coverage in the event of a failure and saleability with non-standard system components. I'd a hate to suffer loss with denied insurance coverage because I found a hose that was $20 or $50 or $100 cheaper at Sears that failed and allowed high pressure city water flood the vessel.

And while I suppose there are surveyors who will not notice or overlook a non-standard installation such as this, there are other surveyors and buyers who will not, so it would need to be redone correctly anyway.

I'm not casting aspersions here, I'm just saying... Besides, the more I look at my own boat, the more I find from the PO's that just makes me shake my head. When I pulled my refrigerator out to access some lighting wires, I found that the wires to the fridge were connected with wire nuts!

I had a 110V outlet that sparked on me as I unplugged my laptop. I noticed it was cracked and immediately replaced it with a new GFI. When I opened the box, I found the PO had secured the metal box to the panel with finishing nails! He couldn't nail them all the way in because of the angle, so he bent them over and they were causing the outlet to short out! Arrrrgh!!

It seems that every project reveals the need for 1-2 more fixes. Ah the joys of owning a 35 year old boat!!

But on the bright side, Chris Foster met me at my marina today for an intro to the Delta. That 35 year old boat ran flawlessly through the whitecaps as we toured the Bedrooms and Mandeville Point. We shared stories of old boat ownership and smiled! Life is good!!
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:57 PM   #22
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You make a point, but some surveyors are dopes. Does the ABYC require it? I suggest the tinned wire discussion as an example of the perception of required and actual requirements. A surveyor can point at the faulty Sears hose as the culprit, but if there is no standard for it, the insurance company may not have a case. However, insurance companies will try to find ANY way to deny coverage.

Moreover, can a hose failure off a fresh water system sink a boat? If it can, you may be right. If it can't, there is no reason not to use it. (double negative)

There is no need to just plain waste money if you don't have to.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:03 PM   #23
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get a grip guys....not everything on the water has to be done like it is written in some yachting mag or at some overpriced COMPLETE BS boatshow.

Commercial boats hit the water every day and work long hours and are just as safe without using marine grade or ABYC standards,

The discussion is about a freakin FRESH water system hose...you can't sink yourself from a fresh water system hose unless you are hooked up dockside...and about 100 sinkings at the dock that I've salvaged were actually from fittings..not burst hoses.

Monday morning at 0100 I responded to a "sinking" 55 foot Carver...it was from a leaky marine grade city water connection and a couple professionally, installed "marine grade" failed bilge pumps...
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:04 PM   #24
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Not EVERYTHING needs to ALWAYS be marine grade. If a Sears hose works, especially for something as simple as a deck shower, go for it. West Marine (and others I suppose) thrives on the idea that plenty of boaters fall prey to the notion that everything on a boat surely MUST be made only for a boat and it's simply not the case.

Some of us MUST find cheaper alternatives just to continue the lifestyle.

I'm just sayin'.

Tom-
A garden hose is designed for, and approved for, .............. watering a garden. It also works well for washing cars, etc.

I suppose Romex is OK for wiring a boat, right? I suppose a car alternator or starter is fine for a gasoline powered boat, right?

PEX, polybutylene, copper pipe and tubing are all suitable for plumbing use in a boat. Not garden hose. Again, would anyone but an idiot plumb a house with garden hose?
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:16 PM   #25
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A garden hose is fine for a washdown. It just has no business being installed inside the boat. A garden hose is not designed for continuous pressure and unless it's made "drinking water safe", it should not be part of a potable water system.

Anyone who owns his or her own boat and doesn't use it for commercial purposes can do whatever he or she pleases with it. If I saw a boat plumbed with garden hose, I would expect it to be wired with Romex and wirenuts.

If I were considering purchasing it. I would walk away or I would submit a low bid considering it would need a major inspection and a lot of reworking.

If it comes down to the cost of proper tubing vs, garden hose for plumbing, perhaps a less expensive hobby is in order.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:16 PM   #26
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It's not a slippery slope. Just because you can use a garden hose for this doesn't mean that EVERYTHING can be crossed over. That was why I said it that way. There are sometimes legit reasons for marine certified things like wiring. This is not one of them... At least I wouldn't suspect it. I've not seen it. (If someone wants to look it up to prove me wrong, I would appreciate it. Not worth my time, really.)

Come to think of it, I don't have a marine grade mattress, sofa, or pots and pans either. Also, my batteries are for a golf cart. You think I need to upgrade them?
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:30 PM   #27
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It's not a slippery slope. Just because you can use a garden hose for this doesn't mean that EVERYTHING can be crossed over. That was why I said it that way. There are sometimes legit reasons for marine certified things like wiring. This is not one of them... At least I wouldn't suspect it. I've not seen it.

Come to think of it, I don't have a marine grade mattress, sofa, or pots and pans either. Also, my batteries are for a golf cart. You think I need to upgrade them?
The difference is some of us KNOW what's crossing the line and OBVIOUSLY others don't....they rely on West Marine advisor for products and proceedures and always recommend "have an expert do it" when someone asks how to do something...and if it's not good enough for their boat...it's no good.

Might as well just read boating mags... I think forums are for better ways of doing stuff, or even just OK ways, altenative products and proceedures just as much as what's the tied and true way....otherwise read a marine book or your manual...how boring
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:40 PM   #28
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We would hope boating forums are for passing on good advice and proceedures. Anyone here really think plumbing a boat with garden hose is good advice?
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:46 PM   #29
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If better judgement on my part prevailed I'd stay out of this pissing match but as a professional plumber completely agree with Ron. If a garden hose worked for you and you are OK with it, to each his own. These are after all private boats.

At the same time I'll never condone non rated garden hose for the above mentioned use. My two cents, YMMV.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:22 PM   #30
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We would hope boating forums are for passing on good advice and proceedures. Anyone here really think plumbing a boat with garden hose is good advice?
good advice comes in many forms...what is the big deal about one run of hose that may be rated the same as some of the cheap marine wannabe vinyl stuff you are talking about?

Plus I wondering why your not all up in arms that he laid it in his bilge instead of properly running it and supporting it to some unrealistic ABYC standard too...
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:54 PM   #31
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get a grip guys....not everything on the water has to be done like it is written in some yachting mag or at some overpriced COMPLETE BS boatshow.
Do you have garden hose in your freshwater system?
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Old 05-22-2012, 05:51 AM   #32
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Do you have garden hose in your freshwater system?
I have MANY non-yachtie-standard items in my boat.

I had a big thing going with Peg Hall about my "non-standard" head configurations.....again with the wanker advice that it would hurt resale...etc..etc when "they" couldn't really find anything wrong with my install...But the great thing aout forums is I did pick up a few tidbits to improve the install.

So for me to use garden hose for part of a fresh water system may not be out of the question...just haven't started rebuilding that system on my boat... I just finished up completely sheathing the bottom with epoxy/6 oz cloth...next is the barrier coat, redo the stuffing box and put the new shaft couplin, shaft and prop back on...
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:39 AM   #33
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Plus I wondering why your not all up in arms that he laid it in his bilge instead of properly running it and supporting it to some unrealistic ABYC standard too...
How else are you going to run garden hose in a boat? He would have to strap it every six inches.

ABYC standards are in place to insure that boats are functional and safe. If you choose not to follow them, your boat may still be functional and safe or it may not be. Most individuals do not have the expertise or experience to set up their own standards.

As we see here, others just don't give a crap. Run a hose and if water comes out, it's fine. Run a wire and if the light or pump woks, it's fine.
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:41 AM   #34
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If better judgement on my part prevailed I'd stay out of this pissing match but as a professional plumber completely agree with Ron. If a garden hose worked for you and you are OK with it, to each his own. These are after all private boats.

At the same time I'll never condone non rated garden hose for the above mentioned use. My two cents, YMMV.
Some people join web forums for just that purpose, to start a "pissing match". It's their form of entertainment.
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:39 AM   #35
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Some people join web forums for just that purpose, to start a "pissing match". It's their form of entertainment.
GTFU...every time someone disagrees with you...you point out it's a "pissing match" because someone WITH the experience to know what's safe or doable or doesn't agree with you...

Just post and stop pointing fingers...most people don't care...

ABYC standards don't apply to commercial vessels so why are they the "safety" standard??? They are not...

Here was a grownups answer...

Originally Posted by CPseudonym
If better judgement on my part prevailed I'd stay out of this pissing match but as a professional plumber completely agree with Ron. If a garden hose worked for you and you are OK with it, to each his own. These are after all private boats.

At the same time I'll never condone non rated garden hose for the above mentioned use. My two cents, YMMV.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:55 AM   #36
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Water pressure

"Think about pressure from the water pump on the boat, it is miniscule compared to shore side water pressure so that is not an issue."

This statement is not correct. A Jabsco 44410-1000 Marine Water Pressure Flush Mount Regulator is set at 35 PSI. The Next Generation SHURflo® Aqua King™ Standard 3.0 has a shut off pressure of 55 PSI. The pressure of the Aqua King pumps are as follows from the smallest at 30 PSI for the JR. to the highest at 55 PSI for the one sited here with several at the 45 PDI range as well. Directly opposite to what was stated here.

Amazon.com: Jabsco 44410-1000 Marine Water Pressure Flush Mount Regulator (35-PSI, White): Sports & Outdoors

Aqua King™ Mini 1.0 Fresh Water Pump 12VDC - SHURflo
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:24 AM   #37
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What can I say but the system worked on my boat for at least 20 yrs with absolutely no problem. ??
Used the Jabsco diaphram pump, the big one, forget the model number.
If one is not comfortable with the setup dont do it, I merely related my EXPERIENCE and nothing more.
To add more fuel to the "marine" fire, the boat came with a large SEARS accumulator tank, steel, not SS, abt 4 gallon capacity. Boat was built in 1981 and when I sold her it was 29 yrs old and that STEEL accumulator was still working just fine. Now the SS water heater, "marine grade" I had to replace. Just saying.
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Old 05-23-2012, 04:44 PM   #38
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"Think about pressure from the water pump on the boat, it is miniscule compared to shore side water pressure so that is not an issue."

This statement is not correct. A Jabsco 44410-1000 Marine Water Pressure Flush Mount Regulator is set at 35 PSI. The Next Generation SHURflo® Aqua King™ Standard 3.0 has a shut off pressure of 55 PSI. The pressure of the Aqua King pumps are as follows from the smallest at 30 PSI for the JR. to the highest at 55 PSI for the one sited here with several at the 45 PDI range as well. Directly opposite to what was stated here.

Amazon.com: Jabsco 44410-1000 Marine Water Pressure Flush Mount Regulator (35-PSI, White): Sports & Outdoors

Aqua King™ Mini 1.0 Fresh Water Pump 12VDC - SHURflo
And what do you think many city water pressures are?

My experience is they range from 50 to over a 100...at least at times during the day. Many Boaters/RVers have experienced plumbing problems when hooked to shore water because of the sometimes high pressures. Many boats have the pressure regulator built into the city water inlet along with a check valve...but not all...including my boat.

Many experienced cruisers/RVers always recommend a sediment filter and pressure regulator when hooking up in unfamiliar areas because of the unknowns.
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Old 05-23-2012, 04:59 PM   #39
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GTFU...every time someone disagrees with you...you point out it's a "pissing match" because someone WITH the experience to know what's safe or doable or doesn't agree with you...

Just post and stop pointing fingers...most people don't care...

ABYC standards don't apply to commercial vessels so why are they the "safety" standard??? They are not...

Here was a grownups answer...

Originally Posted by CPseudonym
If better judgement on my part prevailed I'd stay out of this pissing match but as a professional plumber completely agree with Ron. If a garden hose worked for you and you are OK with it, to each his own. These are after all private boats.

At the same time I'll never condone non rated garden hose for the above mentioned use. My two cents, YMMV.
Dude - You are truly a "piece of work". The poster boy of why this forum should have an "ignore list" option.

I try to ignore your posts, I truly do, but sometimes I just manage to get dragged into them regardless. You are one ot those people who have nothing to say but feel compelled to say it anyway. You picked a fight with Peggie Hall, arguably the world's foremost authority on marine sanitation on recreational boats, implying that your setup was better than what's available from the established manufacturers. If I am in the company of Ms. Hall, or even close, I am truly honored.

Now, you presume to tell me how I should reply to posts.
Tell you what, big fella, until the day when you own your own web forum, you're going to have to read what others post, like it or not, or else just ignore the posts. Your other choice is to step away from the computer and try to find other ways to Mickey Mouse your boat with RV toilets and garden hose.

When I was working, I had standards and codes to go by. What to use and how to use it. Not following these codes would have put other people's lives in danger. The people who write these standards know more about the subject than you do and more than I do. There are good reasons to use certain materials and installation methods.

Anyhow - "Ramble On".
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Old 05-23-2012, 05:04 PM   #40
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What can I say but the system worked on my boat for at least 20 yrs with absolutely no problem. ??
Used the Jabsco diaphram pump, the big one, forget the model number.
If one is not comfortable with the setup dont do it, I merely related my EXPERIENCE and nothing more.
To add more fuel to the "marine" fire, the boat came with a large SEARS accumulator tank, steel, not SS, abt 4 gallon capacity. Boat was built in 1981 and when I sold her it was 29 yrs old and that STEEL accumulator was still working just fine. Now the SS water heater, "marine grade" I had to replace. Just saying.
You just don't get it...be careful before someone singles you out "dude"
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