Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-06-2016, 08:35 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Dune's Avatar
 
City: Coastal SC
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Viking 65 CP MY (run at trawler speeds !)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 370
Question Cruisair air handler blowers- If one ceases to turn...

but yet the bearings seems good such that the squirrel cage will turn and start easily with a little help (pushing it lightly with pinkie), would putting in a new run capacitor likely cure the problem ?

(Unlike the condenser compressor for example, I don't think the type of fractional horsepower single phase motors on the air handler blowers have start capacitors, only run capacitors)

I was told by one tech that sometimes the blower motors, even with the slightest wear in the shaft bushings may happen to occasionally stop at a point where there is the slightest difference in the distances between armature and magnets and refuse to start up the next time.

And yet I wonder if part or not all of the problem is more "getting old" capacitor related ? Guess I'll find out in a week or so when a couple of replacement caps come in from eBay. In the meantime, curious what any of you have found regarding this issue ? In other words can these blowers turn effortlessly as new by hand, but still cease to work due to microscopic wear in the axle bushings causing a slight off center situation....or is a weak capacitor more likely ?
__________________
Advertisement

Dune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 09:19 AM   #2
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,304
Worn bearing causes the spinning armature to be off center, which cause the magnetic field to pull more strongly on one side, which causes the motor to not be able to start turning as one side of the magnetic field is stronger than the other, that can happen. Replaced a furnace inducer motor that did this. Bearings were worn just barely.

Is there a start or run capacitor? Could also be the issue. I have a digital meter that reads capacitors.
__________________

sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 09:30 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Dune's Avatar
 
City: Coastal SC
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Viking 65 CP MY (run at trawler speeds !)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post

Is there a start or run capacitor? Could also be the issue. I have a digital meter that reads capacitors.
I find that question very odd considering I specifically addressed it in my post already. In fact that was the whole point of the topic !

But I did enjoy your other info. Now wondering if a slightly higher uF run cap might overcome the bearing wear issue for awhile ? (assuming there is any bearing wear..may not be) The cap on each blower now is only 2uF rating.

FWIW, I also have a digital cap meter ("Capacitor Wizard" is the brand) but I don't think it is accurate for caps as small as 2uF.... but to be honest can't remember now...maybe it would read that low.... forgot I had the thing been so many years since I've needed it on my CNC control repairs...back at my shop.
Dune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 09:34 AM   #4
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,889
Wiggle the shaft of the motor and see if there is play evident, should be very little. Compare play to the unit that runs.

If you don't have a meter to check capacitor, swap it out with a cap from the one that runs.
Ski in NC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 09:38 AM   #5
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,304
https://jet.com/product/detail/b308f...GcYaArZm8P8HAQ

They are cheap the run capacitors, this one is 5$. An electric motor shop or HVAC supply house may be cheaper than from Cruisair Maybe you can swap one from another fan as a test. I have some here, but then I have lots of stuff I keep or pickup for parts.

Get the highest voltage rated cap you can get as it will have more headroom for voltage spikes.
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 09:51 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Dune's Avatar
 
City: Coastal SC
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Viking 65 CP MY (run at trawler speeds !)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
https://jet.com/product/detail/b308f...GcYaArZm8P8HAQ

They are cheap the run capacitors, this one is 5$. An electric motor shop or HVAC supply house may be cheaper than from Cruisair Maybe you can swap one from another fan as a test. I have some here, but then I have lots of stuff I keep or pickup for parts.

Get the highest voltage rated cap you can get as it will have more headroom for voltage spikes.
As of a few days ago, I already have a couple of new replacement caps on order via a seller on eBay....just wondering in the meantime (slow boat from China apparently) if I just wasted $10 or not

Re the suggestion to switch known good cap for test... yeah I know but all the other blowers are just too hard to get to. Sometimes I think Viking purposely decided to hide all the air handlers in such strange and tight spaces just to drive future techs crazy.

Actually the dual handler for the galley and inside helm is easy to get to but the blowers are enclosed in an insulated metal box with a gazillion screws to remove to lift off the top of the box, so forget that one, rather just wait out new replacement caps as they are so cheap and the non functioning blower is not needed much at the moment anyway.
Dune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 09:54 AM   #7
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
You can't totally blame Viking. You boat may have actually been built by Gulfstar.

I'm guessing you're going to need a new blower.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 10:10 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Dune's Avatar
 
City: Coastal SC
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Viking 65 CP MY (run at trawler speeds !)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
You can't totally blame Viking. You boat may have actually been built by Gulfstar.

I'm guessing you're going to need a new blower.
Viking bought Gulfstar in 1988. Mine is a 1993 CPMY. Gulfstar didn't exist in 1993.

But I know what you mean...it indeed might have been built by ex Gulfstar workers. But their job description and paychecks were Viking so officially this boat was built by Viking.

Having said that, I'm guessing you are right about needing new blower but the theory was to at least try new cap first to see if that helps. Surprising to me so far no one here seems to have actual experience doing what I am proposing to do.

I have done this (replaced caps) with home condenser fans with great success but there the situation is a little different in that the fans are always vertically mounted and not as subject to the off center issue of worn bearings that a horizontally mounted blower would be.
Dune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 10:37 AM   #9
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,996
Greetings,
Mr. C. Long shot that may be part of the problem. The speed control probably has a trim pot. Have your tried running the adjustment screw back and forth to "clean up" the contacts?
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 10:53 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Dune's Avatar
 
City: Coastal SC
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Viking 65 CP MY (run at trawler speeds !)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. C. Long shot that may be part of the problem. The speed control probably has a trim pot. Have your tried running the adjustment screw back and forth to "clean up" the contacts?
RT, you're living' in the past m'man... There is no adjustment screw...fan speeds are all electronic... (SMX II control)
Dune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 11:10 AM   #11
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,996
Greetings,
Mr. C. Just a suggestion...Ah, well. Old is good. At least that's what I keep telling myself...

__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 12:20 PM   #12
Guru
 
Heron's Avatar
 
City: Cypress Landing Marina (NC)
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Heron (2)
Vessel Model: '88 Cape Dory 28 Flybridge #115
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,084
Same thing happened to me.....Cap did not fix it, though it may yours as at least you get rotation. I replaced the entire cage for roughly $150. An exact replacement was easy to find on Amazon, even for a 20+ year old unit. Has worked like a champ ever since and the newer motor is built much better than the old one from the same manufacturer...I'll warn you, the R&R was a PITA...

My old thread on troubleshooting and Squirelcage replacement:

AC diagnostic help.....

__________________
Steve
Heron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 12:56 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Dune's Avatar
 
City: Coastal SC
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Viking 65 CP MY (run at trawler speeds !)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heron View Post
Same thing happened to me.....Cap did not fix it, though it may yours as at least you get rotation. I replaced the entire cage for roughly $150.
I hope you mean the entire blower, not just the cage, as $150 sounds about right for the whole deal. So yours was hard to turn by hand, or even seized completely ? Mine still turns as new..hell, I could probably blow on the cage like blowing out birthday cake candles, and it would start turning and then ramp up to speed from there. It's just such a PITA to get to I need to fix it long term.
Dune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 01:07 PM   #14
Guru
 
Heron's Avatar
 
City: Cypress Landing Marina (NC)
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Heron (2)
Vessel Model: '88 Cape Dory 28 Flybridge #115
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caladan View Post
I hope you mean the entire blower, not just the cage, as $150 sounds about right for the whole deal. So yours was hard to turn by hand, or even seized completely ? Mine still turns as new..hell, I could probably blow on the cage like blowing out birthday cake candles, and it would start turning and then ramp up to speed from there. It's just such a PITA to get to I need to fix it long term.
Yup...The entire rig. Tried to find just the motor but no love. Mine spun like a top. No seizure or other mechanical issue...Just a failed motor..

Lucky for me access was a piece of cake..

__________________
Steve
Heron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 01:36 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Dune's Avatar
 
City: Coastal SC
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Viking 65 CP MY (run at trawler speeds !)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heron View Post
Yup...The entire rig. Tried to find just the motor but no love. Mine spun like a top. No seizure or other mechanical issue...Just a failed motor..
OK just to clarify further, by "failed motor" you mean even after you spun it by hand, it would not ramp up to speed and continue running ? The situation with mine is I can just barely touch the stuck "squirrel cage" and it will immediately take off on it's own and run great.

I had another identical blower stop rotating at the beginning of summer, did the same thing..just barely touched it and it started right up...been running fine ever since... 8 months now...with numerous on/off cycles in that time.
Dune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 02:03 PM   #16
Guru
 
Heron's Avatar
 
City: Cypress Landing Marina (NC)
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Heron (2)
Vessel Model: '88 Cape Dory 28 Flybridge #115
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caladan View Post
OK just to clarify further, by "failed motor" you mean even after you spun it by hand, it would not ramp up to speed and continue running ?
Yes...Mine was totally DOA. Tried a new Cap with no success. 20 + years on that system so $150 to get it going again VS $1500+ for a new unit was a no brainer. I don't doubt I'll have to replace it all at some point, but the new blower/Cage probably bought me a few years..
__________________
Steve
Heron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 02:31 PM   #17
Ted
Guru
 
Ted's Avatar
 
City: Campbell River
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Okisollo
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
.Ah, well. Old is good. At least that's what I keep telling myself...

In a lot of cases I agree

Ted
Ted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 03:16 PM   #18
Guru
 
Rogerh's Avatar
 
City: Niceville, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: At Last
Vessel Model: 1990 Jefferson 52 Marquessa
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 665
I have had two blowers fail as you described with needing a push to get going. Both of them the cap fixed the problem.
Rogerh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2016, 01:05 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
Dune's Avatar
 
City: Coastal SC
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Viking 65 CP MY (run at trawler speeds !)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogerh View Post
I have had two blowers fail as you described with needing a push to get going. Both of them the cap fixed the problem.
Ah..finally someone with the exact same problem and some real world experience with it...thanks !
Dune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2016, 01:35 AM   #20
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,670
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. C. Just a suggestion...Ah, well. Old is good. At least that's what I keep telling myself...

You're right there RT. I keep telling myself everything I own is an oldie, but a goodie. Whether that still holds good after my car goes in for a service Tuesday, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. For a start the aircon needs more gas. The aircon tech who put a new compressor in about 3 yrs ago told me the other day..."Doc, in human terms this car is 100 years old, it's bound to be a bit leaky."

Crikey, it's only a 1990 Celica GT4, so what...26 years...100's a bit steep...not as if it's a cat or dog, but still...keeping fingers crossed they find nothing else too terrible and costly...

Then there's my boat. it's about 41 yrs old, and I'm hoping today I've found and fixed an annoying leak into a corner of the saloon ceiling, that never did that until I put it on the market. The beggar's getting back at me I reckon...
__________________

__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012