Convert electric cooktop/oven to propane

[Mule]

My concern is my family's safety and following the ABYC "codes" insures that the system is installed as safely as possible. While I have and recommend insurance, my insurance company does not have the expertise in this area that the ABYC has.

I am a hands on technician. Safety comes first. As a general rule my systems will exceed ABYC. First stop is Caulder, even if I plan to have another qualified tech do the work with my OK on design, I read Neville Caulder.. I trust no one until I can at least understand the subject, the whys and what fors.

That being said, ABYC may not be all it is cracked up to be. We're it so, they would not be constantly changing their specs. Common sense, advise from more than 2sources and reading up on the subject. This forum has a wealth of information from some very knowledgable people, like FF for instance. Even then, the bottom line is...you are the Captian.

 

[boatpoker]

I am a hands on technician. Safety comes first. As a general rule my systems will exceed ABYC. First stop is Caulder, even if I plan to have another qualified tech do the work with my OK on design, I read Neville Caulder.. I trust no one until I can at least understand the subject, the whys and what fors.

That being said, ABYC may not be all it is cracked up to be. We're it so, they would not be constantly changing their specs. Common sense, advise from more than 2sources and reading up on the subject. This forum has a wealth of information from some very knowledgable people, like FF for instance. Even then, the bottom line is...you are the Captian.

Never heard of "Neville Caulder"
I have read Nigel Calder.

"Not be all they are cracked up to be" .... Every worthwile standard of every standards organization on the planet changes with new developments, new technology and new information. If they don't they stagnate and become as useless as the standard for the horse drawn wagon.

 

[Bay Pelican]

An additional safety tip. All proper propane installations have an on and off switch located near the stove which controls the valve at the tank. This switch will have a pilot light (now LED) which shows when the switch is turned to "on".

If you are installing a new system the locate this switch where it is visible to both someone in the galley and someone passing by the galley. More than once we have forgotten to turn off the switch when done with cooking and have later spotted that the switch is still turned on.

 

[caltexflanc]

All somewhat amusing.... lessee now, the guy's going to buy a 61 foot twin diesel cruiser and is worried about running a little generator 2 or three hours a day? And is willing to spend a whole bunch of money (about what it would cost to operate a genset 1000 hours, maybe more) switching to a less safe system of cooking and, especially, refrigeration? And likely of lower volume capacity? To each his own and have at it as far as I am concerned.

A illustrated here a few times, Ann is an excellent and prolific cook. She always had gas ranges when we lived on land but quickly adapted to the highly adjustable and flexible and easy to clean modern ceramic range that came with the boat. And she loved that big SubZero side-by side too. We're back full time on land again now for the past couple of years in a house that came with a gas oven and range and water heater a clothes dryer. She misses the galley on the boat. And now we have an additional thing to pay attention to and manage: the propane supply.

 

[FF]

All that is required to install a propane fridge in a boat safely is a deep tray under the reefer that is vented by gravity overboard above the resting/operating water line.

This usually means an UP galley not a Down galley although a fridge close at hand in the salon is not a bad idea.

We use a std RV fridge in its own water proof box standing outside on the after deck.

The spare propane tanks are also located there and any gas will drain like water does overboard thru the scuppers.

A solenoid valve operates a dedicated tank for the gymboled (sail boat) range .

3 or 4 months from a tank for the range , 18-20 days on a tank for the reefer , but it IS from the 1960's.

In the 1960's RV reefers needed to be fairly level , but today the general idea is if you don't roll out of bed , you are OK.

Modest motion , a bit of rocking or the occasional sport fish wave actually helps the units cooling .

The usual installation does require a good sized vent be above outside , and an air box from the rear to be connected.

The unit exhaust must not be vented into the cabin.

It is great to get back on board with the boat on its mooring for a week, and have ice cream and adult beverages ready for use.

 

[rwidman]

The situation in North America is quite simply ... there are no laws regarding propane installations on Pleasure craft. Australia's regulations seem quite comprehesive and I'd be very surprised if you could get a propane refrigerator certified on your boat in your country.

ABYC in North America is generally accepted by the courts and underwriters as "Best Practice" and none of these units can be installed to ABYC Standards.

If you read any of their installation manuals you will quickly see why they are unsuitable for boats.

Exactly. If you care about safety, you will not try to install an RV refrigerator on a boat.

 

[Mule]

Never heard of "Neville Caulder"
I have read Nigel Calder.

"Not be all they are cracked up to be" .... Every worthwile standard of every standards organization on the planet changes with new developments, new technology and new information. If they don't they stagnate and become as useless as the standard for the horse drawn wagon.

Yep ya got me. Nigel is written on my yellow book. Not disrespecting AYBC, and it is the standard, no doubt. I still am the Captain, the one responsible for the safety on my boat, as are you on yours. That being said, I keep an open mind.

 

[rwidman]

Yep ya got me. Nigel is written on my yellow book. Not disrespecting AYBC, and it is the standard, no doubt. I still am the Captain, the one responsible for the safety on my boat, as are you on yours. That being said, I keep an open mind.

ABYC is the standard. There is no harm in going above the standard but there is potential harm in going below it or ignoring it.

As for "knowledgeable individuals" on boating forums, there are some but there are just as many people who can write well but have no idea what they are talking about. The trick is to know which is which. I just read a post on another forum from someone who though the negative battery terminal should be disconnected first because there would be less of a spark than if the positive battery terminal was disconnected first. Another poster stated that it took several thousand volts to create an arc. Do you want to take advice from the likes of these folks?

If we look at production boats, we don't see any (that I know of) that are built with LP refrigerators even though this would seem to be an advantage over 12 volt on a boat. Why could that be? It's certainly not cost so what is it? Could it be that they don't meet the ABYC safety standards? Or other safety standards for those who don't believe in the ABYC standards?

In the USA, you can do anything you want to your boat and that includes installing a substandard propane appliance. Your boat will not pass a survey and if your insurance company finds out about it, they will probably drop you, but you can do it. Is it worth the risk?

Propane is very safe when treated with respect. It is very dangerous otherwise.

 

[caltexflanc]

ABYC is the standard. There is no harm in going above the standard but there is potential harm in going below it or ignoring it.

As for "knowledgeable individuals" on boating forums, there are some but there are just as many people who can write well but have no idea what they are talking about. The trick is to know which is which. I just read a post on another forum from someone who though the negative battery terminal should be disconnected first because there would be less of a spark than if the positive battery terminal was disconnected first. Another poster stated that it took several thousand volts to create an arc. Do you want to take advice from the likes of these folks?

If we look at production boats, we don't see any (that I know of) that are built with LP refrigerators even though this would seem to be an advantage over 12 volt on a boat. Why could that be? It's certainly not cost so what is it? Could it be that they don't meet the ABYC safety standards? Or other safety standards for those who don't believe in the ABYC standards?

In the USA, you can do anything you want to your boat and that includes installing a substandard propane appliance. Your boat will not pass a survey and if your insurance company finds out about it, they will probably drop you, but you can do it. Is it worth the risk?

Propane is very safe when treated with respect. It is very dangerous otherwise.

Amen Wes, we got some RBI champions on this forum and I don't mean runs batted in. I participate in a few others, and this is the only one I use this signature line on. Regardless (and yes, present company included) these forums, comprised of anonymous unaccountable posters, only give you clues, a piece of triangulation and should not be relied on, the majority of the time, for the absolute answers.

 

[Northern Spy]

If we look at production boats, we don't see any (that I know of) that are built with LP refrigerators even though this would seem to be an advantage over 12 volt on a boat.

Here's one.

http://southlandpontoonboats.com/hrv-hybrid-recreational-vessel/

I'd venture the difference is that it is a pontoon boat. No hull.

 

[FF]

"ABYC is the standard."

I have always understood ABYC is the current recommendation for the boat building industry

I do not believe they ever claimed to be a "standard".

The legal liability would be beyond belief.

THE USCG does have standards/ requirements for Inspected Vessels..

 

[ulysses]

ABYC is develops "Standards" for the Marine Yacht Industry. They are not mandatory and therefore not an enforceable standard. Insurance companies, surveyors, purchasers, and others may use those "standards" however they see fit. I think their purpose is provide an alternative to having mandatory rules, but yes they do refer to them as standards.

"standard" defines as a level of quality rather than any mandatory requirement.

 

[Russell Clifton]

I think this could be a big money saver for all you guys wanting to do this. Just think, you won't need to buy any insurance or pay for that insurance survey either. Also, since you now can't get any insurance, you don't need to worry about a monthly moorage payment because now you will be keeping the boat at anchor on the other side of the bay. What's there not to like?

 

[boatpoker]

"ABYC is the standard."

I have always understood ABYC is the current recommendation for the boat building industry

I do not believe they ever claimed to be a "standard".

The legal liability would be beyond belief.

THE USCG does have standards/ requirements for Inspected Vessels..

The cover of my 5" thick manual says ...

" ABYC Standards and Technical Information Reports For Small Craft"

 

[Northern Spy]

Recommend Practices are guidelines for performing work.

Specifications are requirements for materials and services.

Standards establish technical requirements for products and practices. They can be drafted by many organizations. They can be voluntarily adopted.

Code is the minimum acceptable level of safety for manufactured objects, and references standards and specifications.

Regulations are codes (and sometimes standards) that are adopted by government that govern how laws are enforced. In the technical world, they usually has to do with public safety.

Code tells you what you need to do. Standards and Specifications tell you how to do it. Regulation makes it enforceable by law. Recommend Practices are really good ideas and often times become standards at a later date.

ABYC generates standards. Transport Canada is adopting portions of ABYC standards as regulation. Some of these are from A-1.

Generally speaking, ABYC standards are a "good thing".

How they are applied in the marine industry can be frustrating.

 

[boatpoker]

ABYC generates standards. Transport Canada is adopting portions of ABYC standards as regulation. Some of these are from A-1.

Transport Canada has already included many ABYC Standards into TP1332 (Construction Standards For Small Vessels) thereby making them law.

Last year Transport Canada announced that TP1332 would be replaced by ABYC in it's entirety by July of this year .... however that has not happened yet due to typical bureaucratic delays but it is coming soon. The French translation is already underway according to Ian Campbell, Manager of the Transport Canada National Marine Safety Program.

 

[Northern Spy]

Transport Canada has already included many ABYC Standards into TP1332 (Construction Standards For Small Vessels) thereby making them law.

Last year Transport Canada announced that TP1332 would be replaced by ABYC in it's entirety by July of this year .... however that has not happened yet due to typical bureaucratic delays but it is coming. soon. The French translation is already underway according to Ian Campbell, Manager of the Transport Canada National Marine Safety Program.

Yup. I think this is a good thing. I like construction standards!

 

[boatpoker]

Yup. I think this is a good thing. I like construction standards!

I kinda like them too as it levels the playing field. I do however have little faith in Canada's ability to enforce the standards.

Myself and several friends (all surveyors) have been going to the Toronto Boat Show for about 20 years with one goal in mind .... to find a "legal" boat .... (canoes and runabouts not included) have not seen one yet.

In about 3500 surveys I have never seen a boat that met all the legal requirements of TP1332. Think GM or Ford could get away with that ?

 

[tallswede]

In an earlier post I misspoke when I said the air for the propane fridge came in from inside the salon. There are 2 vent lines that go out side for intake and exhaust. My friends with the house boat have used theirs for many years with no problem. They are galley up and have 2 units that work well even when the temps are in the high 90s F. These units run on 12v, 110v and propane which ever is needed.

Kevin

 

[FF]

Interesting question then is what happens to all the boats that become "sub standard" with any change in the "standards"

The EU and the US are attempting to merge their standards as so many vessels have a world market.

There are lots of changes coming!

 

[Northern Spy]

Interesting question then is what happens to all the boats that become "sub standard" with any change in the "standards"

The EU and the US are attempting to merge their standards as so many vessels have a world market.

There are lots of changes coming!

*"Existing pleasure craft that were constructed according to an earlier version of this Standard are not required by the Regulations to comply with the current construction requirements of the Small Vessel Regulations, but are encouraged to do so insofar as it is reasonable and practicable."

 

[FF]

*"Existing pleasure craft that were constructed according to an earlier version of this Standard are not required by the Regulations to comply with the current construction requirements of the Small Vessel Regulations, but are encouraged to do so insofar as it is reasonable and practicable."

That may well be but many "surveyors" will quote the new rule , in an attempt to show how much your getting for his fees.

 

[boatpoker]

That may well be but many "surveyors" will quote the new rule , in an attempt to show how much your getting for his fees.

Don't think that's quite the case. Are you suggesting that a surveyor should keep the standards and regulations for every year since the 60's and then survey a 1978 boat using that years standard , then a 1984 boat to 1984 standards etc. ? I don't have a room big enough for that library.

By surveying to current standards the clients are at least made aware of the most up to date thinking on critical safety issues.

eg. In the 60's and 70's gasoline powered boats were not required to have the ventilation systems required today. Those systems have likely prevented countless explosions and fatalities but we shouldn't mention them when surveying a 1972 boat ?

 

[Mule]

"ABYC is the standard."

I have always understood ABYC is the current recommendation for the boat building industry

I do not believe they ever claimed to be a "standard".

The legal liability would be beyond belief.

THE USCG does have standards/ requirements for Inspected Vessels..

OK, 1. ABYC is the generally accepted as the interrupter of Coast Guard Published standards. 2. AYBC is generally accepted authority of published "best practice". 2. AYBC published practices are used as a guideline for safe practices and standards for both refit and new boat construction.

Pick 1. FF. Does the revised verbage in one of the above meet the exacting precision needed to get the FF gold (greatly sought after) stamp of approval? Notice I am trying so hard.

 

[ulysses]

Did you mean "interpreter" rather than interrupter ? Makes a big difference.

 

[Mule]

Gotta watch that auto spell check.....you caught it. Good eye!

 

[caltexflanc]

My friends with the house boat have used theirs for many years with no problem....

What waters does this boat cruise upon, if it indeed is ever underway?

 

[HeadMistress]

Why should ABYC matter? The insurance company is the only one that counts.

But the insurance companies want to know whether the all the systems on the boat that impact the boat's safety meet ABYC standards... which is why they require condition and value surveys.

And btw, ABYC standards are not "codes"...There's no legal requirement to meet them, and even boat builders, including those who are ABYC members, ignore some of them...like (my pet peeve) putting toilet intake thru-hulls in totally INaccessible locations because seacocks detract from the decor.

 

[djones44]

I've got propane onboard and I also prefer to cook on gas. But before I converted from electric to gas on a boat, I'd purchase and try a induction cooktop.

I just changed boats to one with only a diesel stove for cooking, as on fishboats - which I adore for dry heat and atmosphere in winter. The previous owners just used an electric frying pan, and we do the same. We're very impressed with the practicality, and no propane on the boat is a bonus.

 

[rwidman]

............ and no propane on the boat is a bonus.

I suppose that's your opinion. There is nothing wrong with a properly installed and maintained propane system for cooking. It's simple and it's safe. Propane is great for cooking.