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Old 08-06-2016, 07:55 AM   #41
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"ABYC is the standard."

I have always understood ABYC is the current recommendation for the boat building industry

I do not believe they ever claimed to be a "standard".

The legal liability would be beyond belief.

THE USCG does have standards/ requirements for Inspected Vessels..
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Old 08-06-2016, 08:17 AM   #42
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ABYC is develops "Standards" for the Marine Yacht Industry. They are not mandatory and therefore not an enforceable standard. Insurance companies, surveyors, purchasers, and others may use those "standards" however they see fit. I think their purpose is provide an alternative to having mandatory rules, but yes they do refer to them as standards.

"standard" defines as a level of quality rather than any mandatory requirement.
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Old 08-06-2016, 08:18 AM   #43
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I think this could be a big money saver for all you guys wanting to do this. Just think, you won't need to buy any insurance or pay for that insurance survey either. Also, since you now can't get any insurance, you don't need to worry about a monthly moorage payment because now you will be keeping the boat at anchor on the other side of the bay. What's there not to like?
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Old 08-06-2016, 08:47 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"ABYC is the standard."

I have always understood ABYC is the current recommendation for the boat building industry

I do not believe they ever claimed to be a "standard".

The legal liability would be beyond belief.

THE USCG does have standards/ requirements for Inspected Vessels..
The cover of my 5" thick manual says ...

" ABYC Standards and Technical Information Reports For Small Craft"
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Old 08-06-2016, 10:38 AM   #45
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Recommend Practices are guidelines for performing work.

Specifications are requirements for materials and services.

Standards establish technical requirements for products and practices. They can be drafted by many organizations. They can be voluntarily adopted.

Code is the minimum acceptable level of safety for manufactured objects, and references standards and specifications.

Regulations are codes (and sometimes standards) that are adopted by government that govern how laws are enforced. In the technical world, they usually has to do with public safety.

Code tells you what you need to do. Standards and Specifications tell you how to do it. Regulation makes it enforceable by law. Recommend Practices are really good ideas and often times become standards at a later date.

ABYC generates standards. Transport Canada is adopting portions of ABYC standards as regulation. Some of these are from A-1.

Generally speaking, ABYC standards are a "good thing".

How they are applied in the marine industry can be frustrating.
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Old 08-06-2016, 10:58 AM   #46
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Quote:
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ABYC generates standards. Transport Canada is adopting portions of ABYC standards as regulation. Some of these are from A-1.
Transport Canada has already included many ABYC Standards into TP1332 (Construction Standards For Small Vessels) thereby making them law.

Last year Transport Canada announced that TP1332 would be replaced by ABYC in it's entirety by July of this year .... however that has not happened yet due to typical bureaucratic delays but it is coming soon. The French translation is already underway according to Ian Campbell, Manager of the Transport Canada National Marine Safety Program.
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Old 08-06-2016, 11:12 AM   #47
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Transport Canada has already included many ABYC Standards into TP1332 (Construction Standards For Small Vessels) thereby making them law.

Last year Transport Canada announced that TP1332 would be replaced by ABYC in it's entirety by July of this year .... however that has not happened yet due to typical bureaucratic delays but it is coming. soon. The French translation is already underway according to Ian Campbell, Manager of the Transport Canada National Marine Safety Program.
Yup. I think this is a good thing. I like construction standards!
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Old 08-06-2016, 11:20 AM   #48
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Yup. I think this is a good thing. I like construction standards!
I kinda like them too as it levels the playing field. I do however have little faith in Canada's ability to enforce the standards.

Myself and several friends (all surveyors) have been going to the Toronto Boat Show for about 20 years with one goal in mind .... to find a "legal" boat .... (canoes and runabouts not included) have not seen one yet.

In about 3500 surveys I have never seen a boat that met all the legal requirements of TP1332. Think GM or Ford could get away with that ?
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Old 08-06-2016, 12:10 PM   #49
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In an earlier post I misspoke when I said the air for the propane fridge came in from inside the salon. There are 2 vent lines that go out side for intake and exhaust. My friends with the house boat have used theirs for many years with no problem. They are galley up and have 2 units that work well even when the temps are in the high 90s F. These units run on 12v, 110v and propane which ever is needed.

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Old 08-06-2016, 01:58 PM   #50
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Interesting question then is what happens to all the boats that become "sub standard" with any change in the "standards"

The EU and the US are attempting to merge their standards as so many vessels have a world market.

There are lots of changes coming!
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Old 08-06-2016, 02:31 PM   #51
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Interesting question then is what happens to all the boats that become "sub standard" with any change in the "standards"

The EU and the US are attempting to merge their standards as so many vessels have a world market.

There are lots of changes coming!
*"Existing pleasure craft that were constructed according to an earlier version of this Standard are not required by the Regulations to comply with the current construction requirements of the Small Vessel Regulations, but are encouraged to do so insofar as it is reasonable and practicable."
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Old 08-07-2016, 06:33 AM   #52
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*"Existing pleasure craft that were constructed according to an earlier version of this Standard are not required by the Regulations to comply with the current construction requirements of the Small Vessel Regulations, but are encouraged to do so insofar as it is reasonable and practicable."

That may well be but many "surveyors" will quote the new rule , in an attempt to show how much your getting for his fees.
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Old 08-07-2016, 07:02 AM   #53
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That may well be but many "surveyors" will quote the new rule , in an attempt to show how much your getting for his fees.
Don't think that's quite the case. Are you suggesting that a surveyor should keep the standards and regulations for every year since the 60's and then survey a 1978 boat using that years standard , then a 1984 boat to 1984 standards etc. ? I don't have a room big enough for that library.

By surveying to current standards the clients are at least made aware of the most up to date thinking on critical safety issues.

eg. In the 60's and 70's gasoline powered boats were not required to have the ventilation systems required today. Those systems have likely prevented countless explosions and fatalities but we shouldn't mention them when surveying a 1972 boat ?
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Old 08-07-2016, 07:29 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"ABYC is the standard."

I have always understood ABYC is the current recommendation for the boat building industry

I do not believe they ever claimed to be a "standard".

The legal liability would be beyond belief.

THE USCG does have standards/ requirements for Inspected Vessels..
OK, 1. ABYC is the generally accepted as the interrupter of Coast Guard Published standards. 2. AYBC is generally accepted authority of published "best practice". 2. AYBC published practices are used as a guideline for safe practices and standards for both refit and new boat construction.

Pick 1. FF. Does the revised verbage in one of the above meet the exacting precision needed to get the FF gold (greatly sought after) stamp of approval? Notice I am trying so hard.
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Old 08-07-2016, 08:26 AM   #55
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Did you mean "interpreter" rather than interrupter ? Makes a big difference.
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Old 08-07-2016, 08:40 AM   #56
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Gotta watch that auto spell check.....you caught it. Good eye!
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Old 08-07-2016, 11:58 AM   #57
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My friends with the house boat have used theirs for many years with no problem....
What waters does this boat cruise upon, if it indeed is ever underway?
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Old 08-07-2016, 12:51 PM   #58
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Why should ABYC matter? The insurance company is the only one that counts.
But the insurance companies want to know whether the all the systems on the boat that impact the boat's safety meet ABYC standards... which is why they require condition and value surveys.

And btw, ABYC standards are not "codes"...There's no legal requirement to meet them, and even boat builders, including those who are ABYC members, ignore some of them...like (my pet peeve) putting toilet intake thru-hulls in totally INaccessible locations because seacocks detract from the decor.
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Old 08-07-2016, 01:42 PM   #59
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I've got propane onboard and I also prefer to cook on gas. But before I converted from electric to gas on a boat, I'd purchase and try a induction cooktop.
I just changed boats to one with only a diesel stove for cooking, as on fishboats - which I adore for dry heat and atmosphere in winter. The previous owners just used an electric frying pan, and we do the same. We're very impressed with the practicality, and no propane on the boat is a bonus.
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Old 08-07-2016, 08:16 PM   #60
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............ and no propane on the boat is a bonus.
I suppose that's your opinion. There is nothing wrong with a properly installed and maintained propane system for cooking. It's simple and it's safe. Propane is great for cooking.
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