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Old 08-04-2016, 05:07 PM   #21
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Why should ABYC matter? The insurance company is the only one that counts.
And most of them (in Canada and US) object.
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Old 08-04-2016, 06:42 PM   #22
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The cost to replace my stove with a flame fail shut off model was not a lot more $ than the cost of getting a solenoid shut off system and having it fitted and wired and certified. Also the stove was leaking at the 'taps" controlling flow to the burners.
A propane fridge achieves the purpose of getting the fridge off the batts, and I`m told bottles last a month or more of continuous running. Surely you can have the install certified by a gas fitter.
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Old 08-04-2016, 07:04 PM   #23
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A propane fridge achieves the purpose of getting the fridge off the batts, and I`m told bottles last a month or more of continuous running. Surely you can have the install certified by a gas fitter.
The situation in North America is quite simply ... there are no laws regarding propane installations on Pleasure craft. Australia's regulations seem quite comprehesive and I'd be very surprised if you could get a propane refrigerator certified on your boat in your country.

ABYC in North America is generally accepted by the courts and underwriters as "Best Practice" and none of these units can be installed to ABYC Standards.

If you read any of their installation manuals you will quickly see why they are unsuitable for boats.
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Old 08-04-2016, 07:14 PM   #24
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Boatpoker, there are boats here with propane refrigerators,many boats are insured by Club Marine, which does require a gas system diagram and certificate from a qualified fitter. I don`t know about other insurers requirements. I had to supply a certificate, but in fairness it was for the stove, not a fridge, and I can see how different that is, always running whether anyone is onboard or not, unattended, unlike a stove in use. I`m not aware of anything like ABYC standards here.
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Old 08-04-2016, 07:24 PM   #25
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"
If you will be cruising and prefer anchoring out to the marina life , you might contemplate a Propane reefer .

A silent 20# bottle once a month is so much easier to live with than creating 200AH per day , every day .
.

Might as well go whole hog and go with a gas fired hot water heater too

Open flames and enclosed spaces don't go well together especially in boats.
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Old 08-04-2016, 07:31 PM   #26
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Boatpoker, there are boats here with propane refrigerators,many boats are insured by Club Marine, which does require a gas system diagram and certificate from a qualified fitter. I don`t know about other insurers requirements. I had to supply a certificate, but in fairness it was for the stove, not a fridge, and I can see how different that is, always running whether anyone is onboard or not, unattended, unlike a stove in use. I`m not aware of anything like ABYC standards here.
It's not just the "un-attended" issue it's also the instruction manuals that warn against running unless level, the lack of a sealed combustion chamber drawing outside air then exhausting it outside and the typically required floor level ventilation at the back of the unit .... where the hell do you vent that on a boat ?
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Old 08-04-2016, 08:30 PM   #27
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I don't see why it would be anymore difficult than on an RV. The fridges I've seen that are 3-way have ventilation drawn from the bottom of the fridge (salon/galley air) and vent overboard (some with a small fan) out a duct outside. Unless you have a conmbustible mixture in your salon/galley it should be very safe. At least not much different than what you have with a stove. I know folks who have two of these on their houseboat on Lake Powell and I am contemplating getting a 3-way Norcold 6.3 to put in my boat to replace the old 2 way that seems to have died along with a replacement for the cranky Princess electric to propane.

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Old 08-04-2016, 08:45 PM   #28
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I don't see why it would be anymore difficult than on an RV. The fridges I've seen that are 3-way have ventilation drawn from the bottom of the fridge (salon/galley air) and vent overboard (some with a small fan) out a duct outside. Unless you have a conmbustible mixture in your salon/galley it should be very safe. At least not much different than what you have with a stove. I know folks who have two of these on their houseboat on Lake Powell and I am contemplating getting a 3-way Norcold 6.3 to put in my boat to replace the old 2 way that seems to have died along with a replacement for the cranky Princess electric to propane.

Kevin
Your RV does not heel like a boat (valves can jam if heeled) and the burner vents outside of the vehicle. To vent outside of your hull requires a hole in your hull. It is unwise to vent into a cockpit or anywhere else inside your gunnels or anywhere near a port, door or window.
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Old 08-04-2016, 08:47 PM   #29
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I don't see why it would be anymore difficult than on an RV. The fridges I've seen that are 3-way have ventilation drawn from the bottom of the fridge (salon/galley air) and vent overboard (some with a small fan) out a duct outside. Unless you have a conmbustible mixture in your salon/galley it should be very safe. At least not much different than what you have with a stove. I know folks who have two of these on their houseboat on Lake Powell and I am contemplating getting a 3-way Norcold 6.3 to put in my boat to replace the old 2 way that seems to have died along with a replacement for the cranky Princess electric to propane.



Kevin

I've never seen an RV fridge that drew intake air from within the RV. Any one I've owned or seen has the intake vent on the side of the unit and the exhaust vent on the roof.
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Old 08-04-2016, 09:02 PM   #30
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I've never seen an RV fridge that drew intake air from within the RV. Any one I've owned or seen has the intake vent on the side of the unit and the exhaust vent on the roof.
Sharon and I just spent the (Canadian) long weekend at a friends cottage.
The cottage was full so we got the 32' trailer. The fridge drew air from the lower front of the unit in the galley and exhausted outside at the bottom of the unit. We turned it off. Don't know squat about trailers/RV's but this is not a smart setup on a boat.
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Old 08-04-2016, 09:14 PM   #31
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My concern is my family's safety and following the ABYC "codes" insures that the system is installed as safely as possible. While I have and recommend insurance, my insurance company does not have the expertise in this area that the ABYC has.
I am a hands on technician. Safety comes first. As a general rule my systems will exceed ABYC. First stop is Caulder, even if I plan to have another qualified tech do the work with my OK on design, I read Neville Caulder.. I trust no one until I can at least understand the subject, the whys and what fors.

That being said, ABYC may not be all it is cracked up to be. We're it so, they would not be constantly changing their specs. Common sense, advise from more than 2sources and reading up on the subject. This forum has a wealth of information from some very knowledgable people, like FF for instance. Even then, the bottom line is...you are the Captian.
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Old 08-04-2016, 09:29 PM   #32
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I am a hands on technician. Safety comes first. As a general rule my systems will exceed ABYC. First stop is Caulder, even if I plan to have another qualified tech do the work with my OK on design, I read Neville Caulder.. I trust no one until I can at least understand the subject, the whys and what fors.

That being said, ABYC may not be all it is cracked up to be. We're it so, they would not be constantly changing their specs. Common sense, advise from more than 2sources and reading up on the subject. This forum has a wealth of information from some very knowledgable people, like FF for instance. Even then, the bottom line is...you are the Captian.
Never heard of "Neville Caulder"
I have read Nigel Calder.

"Not be all they are cracked up to be" .... Every worthwile standard of every standards organization on the planet changes with new developments, new technology and new information. If they don't they stagnate and become as useless as the standard for the horse drawn wagon.
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Old 08-05-2016, 04:27 AM   #33
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An additional safety tip. All proper propane installations have an on and off switch located near the stove which controls the valve at the tank. This switch will have a pilot light (now LED) which shows when the switch is turned to "on".

If you are installing a new system the locate this switch where it is visible to both someone in the galley and someone passing by the galley. More than once we have forgotten to turn off the switch when done with cooking and have later spotted that the switch is still turned on.
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Old 08-05-2016, 05:51 AM   #34
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All somewhat amusing.... lessee now, the guy's going to buy a 61 foot twin diesel cruiser and is worried about running a little generator 2 or three hours a day? And is willing to spend a whole bunch of money (about what it would cost to operate a genset 1000 hours, maybe more) switching to a less safe system of cooking and, especially, refrigeration? And likely of lower volume capacity? To each his own and have at it as far as I am concerned.

A illustrated here a few times, Ann is an excellent and prolific cook. She always had gas ranges when we lived on land but quickly adapted to the highly adjustable and flexible and easy to clean modern ceramic range that came with the boat. And she loved that big SubZero side-by side too. We're back full time on land again now for the past couple of years in a house that came with a gas oven and range and water heater a clothes dryer. She misses the galley on the boat. And now we have an additional thing to pay attention to and manage: the propane supply.
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Old 08-05-2016, 05:56 AM   #35
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All that is required to install a propane fridge in a boat safely is a deep tray under the reefer that is vented by gravity overboard above the resting/operating water line.

This usually means an UP galley not a Down galley although a fridge close at hand in the salon is not a bad idea.

We use a std RV fridge in its own water proof box standing outside on the after deck.

The spare propane tanks are also located there and any gas will drain like water does overboard thru the scuppers.

A solenoid valve operates a dedicated tank for the gymboled (sail boat) range .

3 or 4 months from a tank for the range , 18-20 days on a tank for the reefer , but it IS from the 1960's.

In the 1960's RV reefers needed to be fairly level , but today the general idea is if you don't roll out of bed , you are OK.

Modest motion , a bit of rocking or the occasional sport fish wave actually helps the units cooling .

The usual installation does require a good sized vent be above outside , and an air box from the rear to be connected.

The unit exhaust must not be vented into the cabin.

It is great to get back on board with the boat on its mooring for a week, and have ice cream and adult beverages ready for use.
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Old 08-05-2016, 06:54 AM   #36
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The situation in North America is quite simply ... there are no laws regarding propane installations on Pleasure craft. Australia's regulations seem quite comprehesive and I'd be very surprised if you could get a propane refrigerator certified on your boat in your country.

ABYC in North America is generally accepted by the courts and underwriters as "Best Practice" and none of these units can be installed to ABYC Standards.

If you read any of their installation manuals you will quickly see why they are unsuitable for boats.
Exactly. If you care about safety, you will not try to install an RV refrigerator on a boat.
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Old 08-05-2016, 07:44 AM   #37
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Never heard of "Neville Caulder"
I have read Nigel Calder.

"Not be all they are cracked up to be" .... Every worthwile standard of every standards organization on the planet changes with new developments, new technology and new information. If they don't they stagnate and become as useless as the standard for the horse drawn wagon.
Yep ya got me. Nigel is written on my yellow book. Not disrespecting AYBC, and it is the standard, no doubt. I still am the Captain, the one responsible for the safety on my boat, as are you on yours. That being said, I keep an open mind.
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:27 AM   #38
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Yep ya got me. Nigel is written on my yellow book. Not disrespecting AYBC, and it is the standard, no doubt. I still am the Captain, the one responsible for the safety on my boat, as are you on yours. That being said, I keep an open mind.
ABYC is the standard. There is no harm in going above the standard but there is potential harm in going below it or ignoring it.

As for "knowledgeable individuals" on boating forums, there are some but there are just as many people who can write well but have no idea what they are talking about. The trick is to know which is which. I just read a post on another forum from someone who though the negative battery terminal should be disconnected first because there would be less of a spark than if the positive battery terminal was disconnected first. Another poster stated that it took several thousand volts to create an arc. Do you want to take advice from the likes of these folks?

If we look at production boats, we don't see any (that I know of) that are built with LP refrigerators even though this would seem to be an advantage over 12 volt on a boat. Why could that be? It's certainly not cost so what is it? Could it be that they don't meet the ABYC safety standards? Or other safety standards for those who don't believe in the ABYC standards?

In the USA, you can do anything you want to your boat and that includes installing a substandard propane appliance. Your boat will not pass a survey and if your insurance company finds out about it, they will probably drop you, but you can do it. Is it worth the risk?

Propane is very safe when treated with respect. It is very dangerous otherwise.
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Old 08-05-2016, 10:11 AM   #39
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ABYC is the standard. There is no harm in going above the standard but there is potential harm in going below it or ignoring it.

As for "knowledgeable individuals" on boating forums, there are some but there are just as many people who can write well but have no idea what they are talking about. The trick is to know which is which. I just read a post on another forum from someone who though the negative battery terminal should be disconnected first because there would be less of a spark than if the positive battery terminal was disconnected first. Another poster stated that it took several thousand volts to create an arc. Do you want to take advice from the likes of these folks?

If we look at production boats, we don't see any (that I know of) that are built with LP refrigerators even though this would seem to be an advantage over 12 volt on a boat. Why could that be? It's certainly not cost so what is it? Could it be that they don't meet the ABYC safety standards? Or other safety standards for those who don't believe in the ABYC standards?

In the USA, you can do anything you want to your boat and that includes installing a substandard propane appliance. Your boat will not pass a survey and if your insurance company finds out about it, they will probably drop you, but you can do it. Is it worth the risk?

Propane is very safe when treated with respect. It is very dangerous otherwise.
Amen Wes, we got some RBI champions on this forum and I don't mean runs batted in. I participate in a few others, and this is the only one I use this signature line on. Regardless (and yes, present company included) these forums, comprised of anonymous unaccountable posters, only give you clues, a piece of triangulation and should not be relied on, the majority of the time, for the absolute answers.
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Old 08-05-2016, 10:26 AM   #40
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If we look at production boats, we don't see any (that I know of) that are built with LP refrigerators even though this would seem to be an advantage over 12 volt on a boat.
Here's one.

http://southlandpontoonboats.com/hrv...tional-vessel/

I'd venture the difference is that it is a pontoon boat. No hull.
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