Cleaning stained toilet

[Capt. Sea Fever]

We keep our boat on the Little River near the SC/NC line.
Here the ICW water is tea-colored due to the up stream vegetation.
This water leaves a brownish stain in the bowls.
Any safe way to clean these!
Thanks as always!
Capt. Sea Fever

 

[psneeld]

What kind of bowls and do they go to a holding tank or Type 1 MSD?

 

[sdowney717]

Safe way or legal way, what do you mean?
Use acidic Toilet bowl cleaner. Then either dump it overboard directly, or neutralize the acid and dump it overboard directly, dont send it to a holding tank.

 

[Capt. Sea Fever]

They’re Galley Maid and drain into holding tanks.
They’re located in a 35 yo Grand Banks 49 Classic

 

[psneeld]

if porcelin bowls, I would just use toilet bowl cleaner , let it clear the stains, then add baking soda and flush it to the holding tank. it takes those same brown stains off my bow every ICW trip.

if paranoid about acidic flushes, get some pool pH test strips to see how much more baking soda you meed to add.

 

[Barabus]

Clean Potty ("CP") enzymatic cleaner works well on my toilet. Smells good and I leave in overnight/during the week.

 

[HeadMistress]

Y'all's determination to use products that allow you to avoid doing ANY manual labor is mind boggling! What the toilet flushes into is irrelevant if you don't flush the bowl cleaner...and you're not gonna get rid of stains in porcelain if you use anything that is just brushed and flushed, 'cuz you're dealing with a set-in stain IN the porcelain surface, not just every day "used toilet."

Put on a pair of rubber gloves, grab a "scrubbie" pad, some Barkeepers friend and scour the bowl. Wipe the residue out with a wet paper towel. NOW you can flush into a tank or treatment device without any negative consequences. If you've let it go too long, you may not remove 100% of the stain on the first try...but if you scrub it regularly it should gradually diminish and allow you to keep it at bay.

Otoh, if you're REALLY determined to avoid doing any manual labor to keep the bowl clean, you could just replace your toilet with one designed to use onboard pressurized fresh water.

 

[caltexflanc]

Porcelain bowl on a boat is no different than one on land, cleaning wise.

 

[sdowney717]

Try the toilet bowl cleaner first, it can move stains off porcelain or they would not make it and everyone would know its junk for cleaning toilet. I just cleaned 2 toilets that had iron or copper rust stains and the acid ate it off to glistening white in moments. Specifically it turned the inside of the tank surgically clean like brand new.

Using barkeepers friend is an abrasive product. IT is very fine powder and does abrade off stains like a polish.

Using acid or barkeepers friend is mentioned here as the way to remove tannin stains.
https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/10174-tannin-stains-white-hulls.html

 

[HeadMistress]

Porcelain bowl on a boat is no different than one on land, cleaning wise.

Actually, there's a big difference. The ones on land are connected to PVC pipe...impervious to just about anything that goes through 'em including just about any toilet bowl cleaner, bleach, pine oil cleaner and half a dozen other things that won''t harm the bowl, but are highly destructive to everything the bowl on a boat is connected to.

So a major difference between toilet bowls on land and bowls on a boats is...on land everything is just an appliance. But everything on a boat is component in a system...and whatever is done to one component impacts the whole system.

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

 

[Delfin]

We keep our boat on the Little River near the SC/NC line.
Here the ICW water is tea-colored due to the up stream vegetation.
This water leaves a brownish stain in the bowls.
Any safe way to clean these!
Thanks as always!
Capt. Sea Fever

Put a squirt of San-X into the bowl between flushes. Lots of other benefits.

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/sealand-sanx-tdx-treatment-chemical

 

[HeadMistress]

Put a squirt of San-X into the bowl between flushes. Lots of other benefits.

Only if you consider formaldehyde to have any beneficial qualities. You can read the MSDS for it here: SanX/TDX MSDS -

We carried the stuff until a case of it with a leaking jug arrived...I couldn't breathe in that part of my warehouse. When I called SeaLand (now Dometic) for handling and cleanup instructions I was told to treat it as a HAZMAT spill (and given instructions for doing that), but told not to report it as one, because believe it or not, formaldehyde is considered "biodegradable" and therefore not subject to HAZMAT shipping packaging or labeling requirements and they didn't want to lose that because it would add a considerable amount to shipping costs. We stopped selling it.

And I hope you have enough respect for the safety of the people on your boat and the environment to stop buying it.

-- Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

 

[sdowney717]

Put a squirt of San-X into the bowl between flushes. Lots of other benefits.

Only if you consider formaldehyde to have any beneficial qualities. You can read the MSDS for it here: SanX/TDX MSDS -

We carried the stuff until a case of it with a leaking jug arrived...I couldn't breathe in that part of my warehouse. When I called SeaLand (now Dometic) for handling and cleanup instructions I was told to treat it as a HAZMAT spill (and given instructions for doing that), but told not to report it as one, because believe it or not, formaldehyde is considered "biodegradable" and therefore not subject to HAZMAT shipping packaging or labeling requirements and they didn't want to lose that because it would add a considerable amount to shipping costs. We stopped selling it.

And I hope you have enough respect for the safety of the people on your boat and the environment to stop buying it.

-- Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

Formaldehyde off gases then you breathe it in and it is a cancer risk.
https://www.treehugger.com/green-ho...our-home-and-what-you-should-do-about-it.html

 

[menzies]

Peggie, have you ever gone back and re-read your approach to a conversation, and thought about dialing it back a notch or two?

Consider this:

Never seem more learned than the people you are with. Wear your learning like a pocket watch and keep it hidden. Do not pull it out to count the hours, but give the time when you are asked.
Lord Chesterfield (1694 - 1773)

 

[psneeld]

my electroscan manual discusses usung muriaric acid to clean the electrodes periodically.

its diluted a bit and they discuss adding an additional bit of freshwater to protect the pumps etc. after flushing the acid.

just did the process this morning in fact.

yep and now my porcelain bowl is sparkling white, and the head system works just great.

 

[Delfin]

Put a squirt of San-X into the bowl between flushes. Lots of other benefits.

Only if you consider formaldehyde to have any beneficial qualities. You can read the MSDS for it here: SanX/TDX MSDS -

We carried the stuff until a case of it with a leaking jug arrived...I couldn't breathe in that part of my warehouse. When I called SeaLand (now Dometic) for handling and cleanup instructions I was told to treat it as a HAZMAT spill (and given instructions for doing that), but told not to report it as one, because believe it or not, formaldehyde is considered "biodegradable" and therefore not subject to HAZMAT shipping packaging or labeling requirements and they didn't want to lose that because it would add a considerable amount to shipping costs. We stopped selling it.

And I hope you have enough respect for the safety of the people on your boat and the environment to stop buying it.

-- Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

With respect Peggie, formaldehyde is considered bio-degradable because it is. It breaks down quickly in sunlight and air. That said, it is certainly stinky and should be handled with the same care you might handle Clorox which is more toxic than SanX. And just FYI, but if you call Clorox and ask what to do with a spill, they will give you the same advice you got from Dometic for the same reasons.

While I respect your advice on many of these issues, suggesting that I don't respect the safety of my family or friends because you find formaldehyde smelly is a bit over the top and unwarranted. Since it is bio-degradable, I am as concerned about its impact on the environment to a lesser degree than my concern about plastic bags, which I will make a wild guess and assume you might be a consumer of.

https://www.americanchemistry.com/M...s-releases/Formaldehyde-Is-Biodegradable.html

 

[Delfin]

Formaldehyde off gases then you breathe it in and it is a cancer risk.
https://www.treehugger.com/green-ho...our-home-and-what-you-should-do-about-it.html

That is quite true, so should be handled as we do most any household chemical, most all of which are considered carcinogenic. Or even table salt, which is implicated in stomach cancers.

https://www.wcrf.org/int/blog/articles/2016/04/salt-shaking-link-stomach-cancer

I believe the safe way to apply a squirt of SanX to the bowl, which kills e-coli, prevents mineral buildup in hoses from the heavy metals in human waste or uric acid build up in the bowl and breaks down quickly in the environment is to use the squirt bottles ketchup comes in. You can place the discharge end close to the water, press once and there is hardly any odor, nor any spill. Seems fairly safe to me.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Re: Post # 14.

 

[AKDoug]

You'll hate this suggestion, but it works. Pull on the rubber gloves and attack it with a non scratch pad and ceramic stove top cleaner. It will get the stains and deposits off right down to the porcelain, but it does take a good bit of elbow grease.

 

[Flatswing]

Products containing Oxalic acid such as wood bleach, bar keepers friend, Y10 etc. Should all work well on the brown stain -just like they do on the river moustache! My personal favourite is Y10 'cus the gel is so darned easy to use. In the toilet you will need to dry the bowl before you use it.

 

[Donna]

A pumice stone. I use it at home and onboard. No chemicals. Ace hardware carries the one with the handle. You would think it scratched a porcelain bowl, but it doesn’t.

I’m super careful what I put in the holding tank.

 

[Maerin]

I'd be reluctant to use any abrasive on porcelain, pumice WILL leave the surface scratched despite observations to the contrary. Those micro scratches promote further staining that will be progressively harder to remove. Use a stain remover like iron-out or something similar. Most are sodium hyposulfite, it won't be in contact with anything other than the porcelain long enough to be of concern, the effect on the holding tank negligible given the dilution. It's commonly used to backwash softeners where the water contains iron.

 

[HeadMistress]

Formaldyde evaporates quickly in the air, but:

"Formaldehyde – human and environmental poisonOne of the problems of formaldehyde is that products containing it slowly give off toxic vapors over time. For humans, inhaling atmospheric concentrations above 0.1 mg/kg can cause eye and mucous membrane irritation, breathing difficulties and headaches.
When in contact with the skin, it can cause irritation, burns and dermatitis, In large doses, formaldehyde can be lethal. The chemical is listed as a known human carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer.
In many animals and birds, formaldehyde has the same effects as in humans when ingested or inhaled. It can also create reproductive problems such as low fertility. In an aquatic environment, formaldehyde is very and somewhat persistently toxic as it has a half life of between a day and ten days."

Chlorine, otoh, evaporates in water in 12-24 hours.

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

 

[Donna]

I'd be reluctant to use any abrasive on porcelain, pumice WILL leave the surface scratched despite observations to the contrary. Those micro scratches promote further staining that will be progressively harder to remove. Use a stain remover like iron-out or something similar. Most are sodium hyposulfite, it won't be in contact with anything other than the porcelain long enough to be of concern, the effect on the holding tank negligible given the dilution. It's commonly used to backwash softeners where the water contains iron.

Been using it for years on my very expensive Italian toilets with no ill effects. Once every 6 months or so does the trick!

 

[Delfin]

Products containing Oxalic acid such as wood bleach, bar keepers friend, Y10 etc. Should all work well on the brown stain -just like they do on the river moustache! My personal favourite is Y10 'cus the gel is so darned easy to use. In the toilet you will need to dry the bowl before you use it.

+1. It is pretty much the same issue as the moustache you refer to and Bar Keeper's Friend works well for that.

 

[Delfin]

Formaldyde evaporates quickly in the air, but:

"Formaldehyde – human and environmental poisonOne of the problems of formaldehyde is that products containing it slowly give off toxic vapors over time. For humans, inhaling atmospheric concentrations above 0.1 mg/kg can cause eye and mucous membrane irritation, breathing difficulties and headaches.
When in contact with the skin, it can cause irritation, burns and dermatitis, In large doses, formaldehyde can be lethal. The chemical is listed as a known human carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer.
In many animals and birds, formaldehyde has the same effects as in humans when ingested or inhaled. It can also create reproductive problems such as low fertility. In an aquatic environment, formaldehyde is very and somewhat persistently toxic as it has a half life of between a day and ten days."

Chlorine, otoh, evaporates in water in 12-24 hours.

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

From the "Green Living Site" you referenced:

Some items common in your home and office that may contain formaldehyde include:

Car polish and cleaners
Air fresheners
Disinfectants
Polishes
Doors
Cleaning fluid
Paint
Furniture
Insulation batts
Ironing sprays and fluids
Particle board
Plywood veneer
Softwood products
Hair products
Synthetic upholstery
Old carpets (no longer used in carpet manufacture)
Smaller rugs
Glues
Sealants
Paints
Foam
Cosmetics

And from the American Chemistry Council:

"Formaldehyde is a ubiquitous, naturally occurring substance produced by every living organism. Studies show that formaldehyde is readily biodegradable and does not accumulate in either the environment or in people. In the environment, formaldehyde is quickly broken down in the air by sunlight or by bacteria in soil or water."

So, I guess you can pick your source of information, but in general for chemical information, I lean towards chemists.

 

[Sea Q]

I am on Peggie side on this one
I have worked with formaldehyde and it is nasty stuff even a little spill
Caused problems breathing and burning eyes if spilled.
Didn't kill anyone but just real uncomfortable but maybe in 20 years they will find it was dangerous. Just like asbestos.
3 years ago I switched to DMDM hydantoin which is a slow release formaldehyde .It safer and easier to handle.
Most Major manufactures are using it now but I would question anything made offshore
We use a 1000 kg tote every month its in Hand soap and dish soap
On the higher end cosmetics we use other preservatives that don't cause any skin sensitivity.
I would be carefull with store bought acid toilet bowl cleaner because most use rendered beef fat as a thickener and high concentration of hydrochloric acid This might cause a problem with your plumbing in your holding tank.

 

[lobsterclaw]

Peggie, have you ever gone back and re-read your approach to a conversation, and thought about dialing it back a notch or two?

Consider this:

Never seem more learned than the people you are with. Wear your learning like a pocket watch and keep it hidden. Do not pull it out to count the hours, but give the time when you are asked.
Lord Chesterfield (1694 - 1773)

I've read Peggy's posts here twice looking for some semblance of hostility or condescending attitude. I've failed to find it.


What I can say is she has touched on is; The Truth Hurts

Some people don't like their failings being pointed out by someone, especially a woman. She's a 'fact of the matter' type person. Don't like her style or what she has to say? Then you probably shouldn't read her posts.



In all her posts that I've read on this board and others she posts on, I've found she is not always politically correct, but her knowledge on the subjects she expounds on is most excellent. She is informing and educating, not nurturing.



Although I'm 73, I can clearly remember that many of my teachers and college professors WERE NOT PC - obviously they never read Lord Chesterfield.


Quite frankly, I find his quote appropriate for the aristocracy of the time, but not applicable to modern day discourse.



Lets not forget that when Lord Chesterfield was postulating, women had no rights whatsoever - but were totally subservient. Witness Henry VIII.

 

[Delfin]

I am on Peggie side on this one
I have worked with formaldehyde and it is nasty stuff even a little spill
Caused problems breathing and burning eyes if spilled.
Didn't kill anyone but just real uncomfortable but maybe in 20 years they will find it was dangerous. Just like asbestos.
3 years ago I switched to DMDM hydantoin which is a slow release formaldehyde .It safer and easier to handle.
Most Major manufactures are using it now but I would question anything made offshore
We use a 1000 kg tote every month its in Hand soap and dish soap
On the higher end cosmetics we use other preservatives that don't cause any skin sensitivity.
I would be carefull with store bought acid toilet bowl cleaner because most use rendered beef fat as a thickener and high concentration of hydrochloric acid This might cause a problem with your plumbing in your holding tank.

That does look a lot safer. I see it is used in cosmetics, but am curious if you know whether it has the same sterilizing effect on e coli as non stabilized forms?

 

[Sea Q]

Manufacturers of the chemicals do all the testing and we receive all literature We have had problems in the past with formaldehyde flashing off when heating product and we find that DMDM is not as prone doing this in the heating process.We use different upper end preservatives in a products like skin cream that is absorbed into the top layer of skin usually two types to cover a wider spectrum of bacterial growth.