China made bilge pump, what do you think?

[Lou_tribal]

The issue isn't that it's made in China. The issue is what company is supervising that manufacturing, setting the quality standards, testing and reviewing product manufactured and standing behind it. I would have no problem with a Chinese manufactured bilge pump from a company I know and trust. I would not under any circumstances buy one from someone I didn't know and trust.

You attacked Caltex for suggesting it was a mistake letting price dictate this purchase and then said price didn't dictate, but the reality is that price is the only reason you're considering this company to buy from.

All bilge pumps are relatively cheap pieces of equipment and not made nearly as well as I wish. However, I don't want to put my boat at greater risk by buying anything but the best I am aware of. I would not cut corners by taking a chance on an unknown brand. Also, as psneeld pointed out, redundancy and frequent testing are critical. Warranty of a $50 part is hardly reassuring when your boat is sitting on the bottom.

BandB I did not attacked anybody, just replying to his comment nothing more. Why people think everybody is attacking everybody nowadays
I said price do not dictate anything because it is only raising interest. My question was do you think these are of equal quality. Equal quality lower price = bargain. LOwer quality, lower price = cheap risky alternative.

I agree with you that what makes the difference is the quality control but I also know that a lot of company are leaving the quality control in the hands of the manufacturer which well is what it is. You worked in industrial if I remember what you said on another post, well if so you may know that like I said before, some are just same origin different branding.

Anyway thank you everybody for all you comments, I see that like for many other things it is a some do some don't subject and sometime a bit sensitive.

For now I do not need a bilge pump but maybe I would buy one ofthese just to dissect it and see what is inside and compare. In that case be sure I will let you know the result as it may raise more questions

 

[Lou_tribal]

By the way, my car is german, its tires are japanese, my wife car is japanese, its tire made in us, my boat hull is from Maine, the deck from Quebec, the engine from US and marinized in Nova Scotia. I am french, I am living in Canada, drinking south african wine, wearing pakistanese, indian, chinese, vietnamese and some time canadian clothes (yeah we still have some) and posting question about chinese bilge pump... is that what we call internationalization?

I am lost

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Interesting observation I've made. Warranties. Either something is SO good it will last the 3 or 5 year warranty period or it's made so cheaply/poorly and sold for such a high profit that the manufacturer can afford to supply "free" replacements over the warranty period and still make a tidy profit.
EVERYTHING is built to a price point.
I know several people in the food industry. One guy works in a tomato cannery. The name brand tomatoes are canned on the same line as the "cheaper" house brands. The story is similar with the other food people. I suspect exactly the same thing happens with a wide variety of goods.

 

[BandB]

I agree with you that what makes the difference is the quality control but I also know that a lot of company are leaving the quality control in the hands of the manufacturer which well is what it is. You worked in industrial if I remember what you said on another post, well if so you may know that like I said before, some are just same origin different branding.

)

Yes, I worked in manufacturing and we had rigid quality control and assurance programs and standards. We had people on site in the manufacturing facilities insuring methods and practices and then checks when received. We rejected a lot of goods on site and occasionally more upon receipt.

Most manufacturers have programs, some more effective than others. The employees are capable world wide. I still wouldn't buy from an unknown. Also, as to same origin, different branding. That does not mean the same product. They may be a good manufacturer but using a different grade of materials on their own product. As an example, take something as simple as a towel. The sewing is relatively simple compared to other things. The manufacturing of the fabric much more complex and not labor intensive. Quality goes all the way back to the purchasing of the cotton. Start with poor quality cotton or get poor dye quality or any of those things and the sewing does nothing to improve it. Manufacturing plants such as the one assembling the bilge pump are right in the middle of the process.

Choose a brand you know and you know what to expect in quality. Choose another one and you have no idea, just a gamble. Might be better. Might be worse.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Greetings,
Interesting observation I've made. Warranties. Either something is SO good it will last the 3 or 5 year warranty period or it's made so cheaply/poorly and sold for such a high profit that the manufacturer can afford to supply "free" replacements over the warranty period and still make a tidy profit.
EVERYTHING is built to a price point.
I know several people in the food industry. One guy works in a tomato cannery. The name brand tomatoes are canned on the same line as the "cheaper" house brands. The story is similar with the other food people. I suspect exactly the same thing happens with a wide variety of goods.

I cannot agree more! Look I am coming from south of France, and in Provence tomatoes are a base ingredient used everyday. There is a know brand made there (well the factory is there), with nice packaging that depict savours of Provence with the sun etc But the robbery there is that the brand is the only thing local... tomatoes used there are coming by box from china every day and they just use the branding to lure people, this is what I call a robbery.
When I was a young student I was working in a factory that was making frozen pizzas. We were doing 3 or 4 well known brand with exactly the same ingredients and absolutly no change just because it would cost more to stop a production chain to change anything so it was only a difference of packaging.

This is just why I started this thread asI am interested in what people with more experience than I have may think

 

[Lou_tribal]

Yes, I worked in manufacturing and we had rigid quality control and assurance programs and standards. We had people on site in the manufacturing facilities insuring methods and practices and then checks when received. We rejected a lot of goods on site and occasionally more upon receipt.

Most manufacturers have programs, some more effective than others. The employees are capable world wide. I still wouldn't buy from an unknown. Also, as to same origin, different branding. That does not mean the same product. They may be a good manufacturer but using a different grade of materials on their own product. As an example, take something as simple as a towel. The sewing is relatively simple compared to other things. The manufacturing of the fabric much more complex and not labor intensive. Quality goes all the way back to the purchasing of the cotton. Start with poor quality cotton or get poor dye quality or any of those things and the sewing does nothing to improve it. Manufacturing plants such as the one assembling the bilge pump are right in the middle of the process.

Choose a brand you know and you know what to expect in quality. Choose another one and you have no idea, just a gamble. Might be better. Might be worse.

I agree with you that it is kind of a gambling if you don't know the source, but at the same time I am not sure anymore to know the source of anything now. Honestly I am checking product origin all the time for anything, and try to buy local as much as possible. Maybe I am dumb but I believe more in creating local richness than going for the cheapest. But when it will come from somewhere else anyway well...

Thank you for your input!

 

[RT Firefly]

 

[Lou_tribal]

LOL! Again your talent is shining!

 

[BandB]

I agree with you that it is kind of a gambling if you don't know the source, but at the same time I am not sure anymore to know the source of anything now. Honestly I am checking product origin all the time for anything, and try to buy local as much as possible. Maybe I am dumb but I believe more in creating local richness than going for the cheapest. But when it will come from somewhere else anyway well...

Thank you for your input!

I approve of buying locally produced items, even if quality isn't better. The problem is with many manufactured items that isn't a choice. Once you tell me I can't purchase a locally manufactured or even US manufactured item, then I'm far more concerned with the brand reputation than the country of origin. I have no way of knowing the quality of the manufacturer so I have to select a brand that I feel selects good manufacturers, depend on them to do the job. As an example, order a computer from one of the major manufacturers. The same model may come from Mexico or China as they produce it in both. Oh, the local dealer who tells you to buy US. He's assembling it but he's working with parts from around the world.

 

[Larry H]

I am having a problem with Rule bilge pump switches. I purchased two packages of a Rule 800 bilge pump and a switch (the cheaper Rule switch) from Amazon. I have the same switch in my trawler which was installed by the PO and has worked for over 10 years.

The first switch failed after one summer of use in my skiff. It just quit turning the pump on. Rule sent me a warranty replacement (2yr warranty). To be safer, I installed both the replacement and the other new switch in parallel. Tested both switches in the boat at home, all good.

I took the skiff to the marina, and had a rain. One of the new switches stuck in the 'on' position, could have drained the battery if I had not caught it in time.

So, two out of three new Rule switches failed. One after three months of use, the other after one day.

I think I will try a Johnson brand switch as I have lost faith in Rule, a long time standard in the bilge pump industry.

 

[Lou_tribal]

When I bought my boat earlier this year I was surprised to see the bilge pumps. It is my first boat so it was the first time I saw a bilge pump and I must admit they did not give me an impression of something very reliable more of something totally rubish. I find a bit odd to see something so simple and also so cheap in the sense of cheap construction in boat that cost sometime 6 figures and more. I was expecting something else, don't know exactly what but something made on bronze or something like that that would have looked indestructible.
I know it sounds silly and sometime simple things are the best working thing but in days when we have cars with wiper detecting a drop of rain and able to start automatically, I was expecting something else

 

[Lou_tribal]

Oh, the local dealer who tells you to buy US. He's assembling it but he's working with parts from around the world.

Absolutly right, up here it is what is called "Proudly made in Canada from foreign ingredients". I always found this funny

 

[Lepke]

If you look closely,all the Chinese pumps are a direct copy of existing US or western brands. If they did a good job copying, the pumps maybe ok. If they don't cut corners, it can be done. After all, the Soviets copied the B-29 down to the last rivet.
I don't consider Rule pumps to be of any great quality. This boat came with several used as bilge or sump pumps. All failed in the five years I've had the boat. Most in the first year.

 

[Donsan]

I remember back in the day (the 50's) that cheap stuff was all made in Japan. The Japanese government and industry was aware of the image and undertook steps to improve its image and implement some of the best quality control measures the world had seen up to that point. By the 70's, goods made in Japan, were considered top quality.The demand for Japanese made cars put the US automakers on notice and efforts were made to restrict Japanese imports. Japanese electronics were also the rage.

More recently, South Korea has adopted the same model and the proliferation of SK branded cars is impressive.

I suspect China will also go this route as other emerging countries such as India start eating into their low cost markets. One way or the other, if you want to sell and want repeat customers, you better make a quality product.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. D. Excellent point! China has a space program. One doesn't get off the planet using junk.
Timeline: China's Space Program, Past and Future - IEEE Spectrum

 

[Bruce B]

Some of these comments are complaints about failures.
It occurs to me that some pump failures may be falsely blamed on the quality of the pump.
I'm no surveyor and I certainly have not got the experience of an active boat mechanic but I've sure seen my share of really, really poor pump installations!
Poorly sealed connections made in wires that are allowed to sit in standing water, bilge pump switches wired in the positive side of the circuit and even wire nuts.
Then there are the melted housings that happen from debris jamming a pumps impeller.
These are things I have personally observed on boats in our marina.
Some of the bilges I've seen on boats amaze me!
And yes, the owners of these boats are happy to blame the manufacturer of the pump or switch...
Amazing!
Bruce
P.S. I chose the blue font because I just noticed that I had that ability! Just be glad I didn't pick my favorite red...

 

[stubones99]

If one doesn't get off the ground using junk, why is there so much space junk?

Stu

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. 99. Like a bilge pump (remember, this is supposed to be a bilge pump thread?), once an item (bilge pump/launch rocket/satellite) serves it's useful purpose and dies, it's pretty well junk. "Outer" space is currently undergoing the same metamorphosis that our oceans have been going through for the last X number of years. A convenient place to get rid of "junk".
I suppose you can realistically refer to some of it as Chinese Junk...

 

[psneeld]

Who here is so certain that their choice of smaller electric bilge pump will work every time it needs to till they replace it?

Are you sure enough to just use one? Or one for every gph quota you need?


I doubt anyone will bet their boat on it.

So which will fail first? Expensive or less so? It's all a bet.....

 

[jwnall]

I suppose you can realistically refer to some of it as Chinese Junk...

Nice photo. Love that variation of the main, jib and mizzen. I understand that the basic design has lasted for hundreds (perhaps even thousands) of years. The sailor in me.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. jw. I don't know squat about sailing stuff but I found an interesting comparison between Columbus' Santa Maria in which he "discovered" America and a Chinese ocean going vessel of the same era.

I'm thinking the Chinese know a fair bit about sailing...
I just picked the junk picture (post #48) randomly off the net but I'd put money on the location being Hong Kong. Only skyline like it in the world.

 

[Lou_tribal]

What about a chinese made bilge pump send in space by a US rocket, would it be a chinese junk or not? I think I have lost my point in this thread

 

[dhmeissner]

Jabsco anyone?

 

[jwnall]

What about a chinese made bilge pump send in space by a US rocket, would it be a chinese junk or not? I think I have lost my point in this thread

Yeah, guess I did do a little thread hijacking, and me a moderator too. I'm sorry. But it was just so tempting . . . RTF posted such a good photo. And the combination of a jib/main/mizzen just has so many complex variations that it is hard for a sailor to ignore. But I do apologize. Carry on.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Yeah, guess I did do a little thread hijacking, and me a moderator too. I'm sorry. But it was just so tempting . . . RTF posted such a good photo. And the combination of a jib/main/mizzen just has so many complex variations that it is hard for a sailor to ignore. But I do apologize. Carry on.

Come on, nothing to be sorry of and no need to apologize. Everybody knows that Mr Firefly is the guru of the image and nobody can resist to his talent!

 

[hmason]

Jabsco anyone?

Those are domestic water pumps, not bilge pumps.

 

[sunchaser]

Jabsco anyone?

I had two of these Jabscos on a 1971 Trojan. One was for fresh water system and other for bilge. Great bilge pump with no electrics in water. Have 6 Rules on DeFever with 2 dedicated to shower sumps. Float failure issues twice in past decade. Not bad at all.

 

[Peter B]

My understanding is the Chinese makes stuff to the specifications & quality requested and demanded by the company they are supplying. No more, no less...

 

[BandB]

I had two of these Jabscos on a 1971 Trojan. One was for fresh water system and other for bilge. Great bilge pump with no electrics in water. Have 6 Rules on DeFever with 2 dedicated to shower sumps. Float failure issues twice in past decade. Not bad at all.

I might point out that Jabsco and Rule and many other water pumps are all owned by the same parent company, Xylem. It's a bit like Dometic and all their brands.

 

[Lou_tribal]

I might point out that Jabsco and Rule and many other water pumps are all owned by the same parent company, Xylem. It's a bit like Dometic and all their brands.

Interesting, didn't know that Jabsco & Rule were from same parent company. I have two Jabsco pump onboard, a fresh water pump and a head pump/macerator assembly. They are working fine but a bit noisy and I found them quite expensive for what it is. The head pump/macerator assembly is basically an electric motor moving 1 impeller and 1 blade on the same shaft, no high tech there and I was not able to find one under 300$ up here in Canada. A bit pricey in my sense. Anyway when you don't have other choice, better to pay than to use a bucket