The Answer to your Raw Water Head Woes

[rwidman]

This popped up on my Facebook feed this morning:

Our Product - FreshFlush Inc.

Apparently, a safe way to use your boat's pressurized potable water to flush a raw water head with no danger of cross contamination.

I would guess it's a container that's kept filled from the boat's water system and the toilet draws the water out from the bottom with no connection between the two, much like the idea of running water in the sink and connecting the toilet's inlet to the sink drain, but fully automatic.

Some guy on Facebook said it solved all his problems but you know how that goes.

 

[HeadMistress]

I would guess it's a container that's kept filled from the boat's water system and the toilet draws the water out from the bottom...

I went to their website...that's what it is. However...

with no connection between the two, much like the idea of running water in the sink and connecting the toilet's inlet to the sink drain, but fully automatic.

There has to be a connection to the fresh water plumbing to keep the tank filled, so it's not at all like connecting the inlet to the sink drain...which, btw, you can do for less than $20 vs $300 for that thing.

This is far from the first arcane attempt to eliminate odor caused by sea water left to sit and stagnate in the intake line, pump, and channel in the rim of the bowl...I remember one that automatically flushed the toilet (only worked on electric toilets, btw) every couple of hours. The inventors failed to take into account that this would not only fill up a holding tank in days, if not hours, it could also drain a battery if the boat sat long enough ...they "fixed" the holding tank problem in the installation instructions by telling people to install a y-valve and line to a thru-hull so the water could go directly overboard...good luck in convincing any legal beagle it's only "clean" water going overboard. They had no answer to the battery drain. It didn't last long and I doubt this one will either.

 

[rwidman]

It's like filling a bucket with a hose and then using the water from the bucket to flush the head.

The sink thing works of course but it's more convenient (especially for guests) to be able to just pump the handle.

 

[Panacea123]

I would guess it's a container that's kept filled from the boat's water system and the toilet draws the water out from the bottom...

I went to their website...that's what it is. However...

with no connection between the two, much like the idea of running water in the sink and connecting the toilet's inlet to the sink drain, but fully automatic.

There has to be a connection to the fresh water plumbing to keep the tank filled, so it's not at all like connecting the inlet to the sink drain...which, btw, you can do for less than $20 vs $300 for that thing.

This is far from the first arcane attempt to eliminate odor caused by sea water left to sit and stagnate in the intake line, pump, and channel in the rim of the bowl...I remember one that automatically flushed the toilet (only worked on electric toilets, btw) every couple of hours. The inventors failed to take into account that this would not only fill up a holding tank in days, if not hours, it could also drain a battery if the boat sat long enough ...they "fixed" the holding tank problem in the installation instructions by telling people to install a y-valve and line to a thru-hull so the water could go directly overboard...good luck in convincing any legal beagle it's only "clean" water going overboard. They had no answer to the battery drain. It didn't last long and I doubt this one will either.

Question for you.
If your fresh water system is pressurized and the flow to the bowl is controlled by an electric soloniod valve, how can the water cross contaminate? I assume they are worried about when the pressurized system is shut down AND the soloniod fails, or if you flushed the head with the system not pressurized?
I have this set up on my boat,however I don't worry about it because the water comes from a dedicated tank used only for fresh water wash down and head flushing, also have the option of valving over to sea water.
Since it is not a recommend practice I know someone smarter than me has the answer. Just trying to get my head (no pun intended) wrapped around this.
Thanks

 

[HeadMistress]

The sink thing works of course but it's more convenient (especially for guests) to be able to just pump the handle.

That's all anyone has to do with the "sink thing" if it's installed correctly. Sea water only stinks when it's left to sit and stagnate in an anaerobic environment (inside the inlet hose and toilet pump)...so there's rarely any need to use fresh water to flush a sea water toilet, the sea water just needs to be flushed out of the whole system (water just poured into the bowl doesn't recirculate through the intake and pump, it just goes out the bottom of the pump and through the toilet discharge hose) last thing before the boat will sit. So when the "sink thing" is installed you still can flush normally using sea water till you're ready to close up the boat...then close the inlet thru-hull, fill the sink with fresh water ONCE and flush the toilet.

If your fresh water system is pressurized and the flow to the bowl is controlled by an electric soloniod valve, how can the water cross contaminate?

I didn't say it isn't safe. I just can't see spending $300 to solve a problem that can be solved much more easily for <$20--and then only if you're committed to keeping a sea water toilet for some reason. You can "convert" most sea water electric toilets to one designed to flush with fresh water, even replace a manual toilet with one that is (the Raritan Fresh Head), for only $150 more and avoid the extra tank and plumbing.

 

[FF]

Our method is simple , the sink in the head uses a telephone style head , that is pulled out as needed to shower .

A shot of fresh water after a flush is enough to wet the bowl with water that wont stink from dead critters.

KISS seldom fails.

 

[rwidman]

Our method is simple , the sink in the head uses a telephone style head , that is pulled out as needed to shower .

A shot of fresh water after a flush is enough to wet the bowl with water that wont stink from dead critters.

KISS seldom fails.

I sometimes flush with the shower wand if I'm just going to flush once and leave the boat. That saves me from opening and closing the seacock.

What you posted will clean the bowl but it doesn't do anything for the hoses and passages in the toilet itself. This is where the critters die and decompose. These dead critters are the reason for the bad smell the first few times the head is flushed after being idle for several days.

I have noticed that we don't have this "first flush" smell if we are cruising or on the boat and flushing the toilet several times a day. It's when the toilet sits un-flushed for several days.

Ideally then, the toilet would be rigged so it could be flushed with raw water (if you run out of raw water you have more serious problems than flushing a toilet) when cruising or staying on the boat and then flushed with fresh (potable) water the last few times before extended non-use.

Peggie's system would work for that, the shower arm method would not because you are only flushing the bowl, not the entire system.

In our case, we flush, spray an air cleaner and go on about our business. It's not enough of a problem to get excited over.

 

[rwidman]

Question for you.
If your fresh water system is pressurized and the flow to the bowl is controlled by an electric soloniod valve, how can the water cross contaminate? I assume they are worried about when the pressurized system is shut down AND the soloniod fails, or if you flushed the head with the system not pressurized?..........

The manufacturer of the device would be the one to ask the question of.

Looking at the website and the photos of existing installations, I don't see any electrical connections. My guess is, water flows into the tank and at a certain level, a float closes a valve that stops the water from coming into the tank. As water is used to flush the toilet, the level goes down and the valve reopens, refilling the tank.

If the valve is high enough above the static water level in the tank, the air gap would prevent cross contamination.

Of course, it could be something entirely different. I doubt they are going to give away their secret.

I didn't see any mention of certification on the website and that is something I would want to see before installing one.