Ancient diesel for stove?

[FF]

>It stank, it was unreliable often going out for no apparent, to me, reason.<

One reason for the stove to go out is the wrong smoke head or no barometric damper.

A puff (25-35+K) of wind can suck the flame out , which is not noticed till it starts to get cold in the boat.

The required barometric damper , with an H smoke head solved this.

Once the installation is correct the units will operate for all winter with no effort.

Ours is a hydronic set up . a 7 turn coil is inside the heater , the water goes as high as possible in the PH and gravity runs it thru the (WT) bulkheads and back to the unit.The circulating water is a constant 135 F when adjusted properly (by hand) weather its -17F or +60F outside.There is about 20 ft of finned baseboard tubing to carry the heat into the fwd cabin.

>surely you remember FF froze his body parts off in NY.<

My first attempt at heat was electric , a total failure.

The next was with an Espar that I was not smart enough to run on 50% kero , and still used a start stop thermostat .

After switching to 50% kero , and using the unit at all times on half it did work acceptably.

Only problems with the Dickinson came After the hydronic was working well.

I switched from hose (with nice gentle big radius ) to copper tubing and it shut down. Using refrigeration slow Ls solved that hassle.

 

[C lectric]

Hi Fred,
My comment about stank was more to do with the diesel weeps rather than any backdrafting or exhaust odour entering the cabin..

I have the barometric damper. That was one of the mods. done when I was bugging Dickinson. It helped a lot.

I have always used the cloverleaf , that's what it came with, although I definitely noted your previous comments about the 'H' head design.

I've never had it backdraft but quite likely I've never had the conditions to make it do so although we have been out in wind of up to 40K. Lucky?? That's why my comment about when travelling to turn it up. I know one couple, liveaboards, and it did backdraft but it was turned low and they left the boat in windy conditions. A heck of a mess throughout the boat although many years ago now.

We almost always have a window or the top of our Dutch door open so the stove doesn't starve

So Murray, it might be worth noting FF comment about the stack head, also the barometric damper.

 

[MurrayM]

Success ...sort of...

It got up and running all right, which was nice on a cold, rainy, north coast day, especially while anchored. There's still a bunch of kinks to work out (obviously) but hopefully not a couple years worth!

One thing I learned is that you should sweep the decades worth of spider webs out of the chimney head before you fire it up. They are very efficient at scavenging carbon from smoke, letting it accumulate, then casting carbon chunks adrift on the wind only to fall on white gelcoat.

Me-thinks the viscocity of the diesel is thinner and faster flowing than what was used before because what should have been the pilot light (lowest) setting had things blazing pretty seriously. The control valve has an adjustment for that, so I'll tweek that tomorrow.

It was pretty smokey at first (see photo below) but once the fan was adjusted to a slow setting it was smoke free. Problem is, it sounded like a low budget rocket.

It also smoked pretty bad with the fan off, making me think there was too much fuel making its way into the burning pot...check out the 'pilot' flame (see photo below).

Looking forward to getting things dialed in to the point where it will burn efficiently without the fan on...there might be a barometric dampener in my future.

All in all though, this has been a game changer day

 

[FF]

The hardest service for these units is live aboard tied to a dock.

The winter wind can come from every direction ,even up or down unlike anchored or underway.

If a aux fan is needed check the damper is closed and look for gunk in the air inlet at the bottom of the stove.

Sometimes an extra length of exhaust pipe outside will have it draw better.

 

[MurrayM]

If a aux fan is needed check the damper is closed and look for gunk in the air inlet at the bottom of the stove.

Sometimes an extra length of exhaust pipe outside will have it draw better.

The damper did get closed after the chimney got hot to the touch...or do you think what I'm calling a damper is what redirects heat around the oven box?

I did haul great chunks of carbon from the access hole at the bottom, centre, front of the oven using the long scraper tool...is that the "air inlet" you're talking about or is there another one located somewhere else?

Before adjusting the metering valve I'll pop the top off the stove and see what carbon is clogging things up that the scraper tool missed.

Starting to have a hunch the PO tried to get the stove to work, created a massive buildup of carbon, then just gave up.

C lectric's brother-in-law had it working properly in the 1980's, so I'll hold off on adding extra length of pipe for now.

Does the chimney ever need to get swept on these stoves?

Thanks for all the hand holding.

 

[wyoboater]

Diesel is famous for growing algae. I wouldn't dream of trying to fire that stove without draining that fuel and cleaning the tank.

 

[C lectric]

The barometric damper is in the exhaust pipe stack above the stove top meant to reduce/ adjust draw in the stack so the flame doesn't get pulled down to far into the burner,causing dirty burning.

I suspect if you are lifting a ring set into the stove top or the stove side then that is the oven damper meant to force the heat to circulate around the oven cavity for oven use. Nothing to do with the exhaust damper.

I do not recall how tall the stack above the stove to the weather head is so you might want to take a look at that.

Don't jump yet but have a look at those things:
--stack height
--weather head
--barometric damper
--thorough cleaning of the pipe and the stove guts

Yes, I do recall the burner sounded a bit like a roar. Forgot about that.

The residual fuel in the lines and oil control valve may be what you are burning initially and may be smokey.

I have never 'cleaned' the exhaust stack. If the stove burns cleanly it should not be neccesary. There will be some build up on the pipe walls but it should not be heavy enough to cause trouble unless the stove burns dirty for a long time, or you bang it.. Keep the heat up for a bunch of hours, open doors and windows, and allow it to clean itself out.

One thing with my Dickinson is although 'low' may be where you want the heat set 'low' is not what the stove likes. It needs to be turned up so it can clean itself out and it will. That's when I turn it up for a boat run and open the door and windows for temp. control.

In your case it may be worthwhile to clean everything that you can though if the immediate P.O. monkeyed things up.

I do use a small quantity of Startron in the stove fuel. It will keeps bugs down and also seems to help the burning although I can't really 'test' this thought.

I have a small Racor filter with a 10u element in the feed line to keep crud out of the Singer . There will be junk buildup in the tank over the years. I cleaned mine out at home and use clean fuel but even so there is stuff collecting again.

There is no 'pilot light'. That is I believe the burner you show a photo of. The low setting may need an adjustment but your unit is enough different from mine that I can't say for sure.

You may need the fan always. The burner is different from the Dickinsons. If you have then manual then look for air feed holes. There will/should be something. If soot has reduced thm then of course the burner cannot do its job properly. In my Dickinson I have to poke out the air feed holes, about 30 of them. But again yours is different.

Any second hand marine stores in your area? Even some of the house woodburning stoves may have pieces 'cheaply' that you can buy to test if a stack height adjustment helps. If that works then get a piece of the S.S. pipe. The bar. dampener, you may just have to bite the bullet for but maybe Craigs list if the used marine fails.

 

[MurrayM]

'Stuff' came up today so didn't get a chance to pop the top off the stove today like I intended. Will instead try taking Badger out for a good romp in a couple days as suggested and dial the stove up to, "Keep the heat up for a bunch of hours, open doors and windows, and allow it to clean itself out. "

There might have been a little old diesel left, but not much as I gave it a long time to drain from the lowest connection in the system. Hopefully it's as simple as flushing what's left of the old stuff out...may as well start with the simple fixes since it did burn clean on the first day.

There was absolutely no bacterial contamination, which is weird, because the Racor 500FG produced copious amounts of brown goo when I took that puppy apart!

 

[MurrayM]

Bump (for those interested and/or have knowledge about ancient diesel stoves)

There were cruddy carbon chunks left at the bottom of the drip pot from last time, but almost all of it was gone at the end of todays romp. Following C lectric's advice we turned up the heat, and it did clean things out.

On the control valve it starts out with 'Pilot Light', then has settings up to #10, or 'Max'. The stove was only on setting #1 today, and with the damper closed the oven got up to 400 degrees. This brings to mind a couple questions;

1) shouldn't that temperature be achieved at about #5 on the control valve, and

2) isn't this controlled by adjusting for viscosity?

 

[C lectric]

The damper, the one that heats the oven, I think should not be closed or used for normal use UNLESS you want to heat the oven. Other wise you are forcing the exhaust and the soot to take a longer path leaving more soot in the stove. It is intended to heat the oven for cooking, not general heating.

On our Dickinson, Pacific, we leave the doors open always to heat the cabin. Only if we are cooking do we use the damper and shut the oven door. Our doors both open at the top, swinging down to open, with a catch in the handle to hold them open about 2" wide at the top. Your oven door hopefully has some kind of a catch to hold the door partly open.

These oil valves are not exacty predictable. It will take some learning. If there is an adjustment for the range spread then try that. However, out Dickinson has a range of '5'. We have used 4 many years ago but it was cold, snow and ice on the water and lines frozen to the dock.

This last summer I fiddled with my range adjustment as it seemed to go from almost nothing to blowing us out of the cabin. So it does have to be done.

Check the fuel inlet itself. Again yours is different enough that this may not be neccesary but upon shutdown a small bit of coke will form which over many shutdowns will eventually build a little dam and block/reduce fuel entry. Once in a while it is needed to break the stuff up.

Yes, likely that temp should require a higher oil valve setting but first stop using the oven damper unless you want the oven and 'see' how it does. Even then you will have to 'play' with it and the door.

We do not trust our oven door thermometer at all. Rather using a portable oven thermometer, usually on the middle shelf.

Never thought of it before but who knows what fuel was used between my brother in law and your purchase. Maybe that old fuel was not diesel but kerosene or a lighter viscosity fuel oil.

Stop using the damper, See what it does then and start looking into adjusting for diesel. I really do not remember the Singer since I had to dump mine early on so cannot help with any adjustments.

Any chance you have an older furnace service person that may have dealt with oil furnaces and such in town. Maybe if really lucky????

I took a quick look on the web to see if any info was available but a quick check looks like nothing. It might be worthwhile asking Washington, if still around, or Dickinson if they have any info available on the Singer valve. If they do get a manual.

 

[MurrayM]

C lectric, you Da Man!

Will definately only close the damper when baking something. There were carbon dunes over an inch thick under the oven box when I cleaned it, so who knows what lurks in areas the scraper couldn't reach.

Didn't notice a catch on the oven door, but it does stay open a couple inches all by itself...will check for some sort of catch, or fab one up if one isn't there for rough weather.

Good point, in that #1 on the control valve at 14 degrees Celsius in light rain and light wind would be woefully inadequate for keeping us warm at -20 Celcius with a 20 knot outflow wind.

Thanks a heap for giving us such a quick boost up the learning curve!!!

 

[C lectric]

I should have mentioned that the area under the oven floor needs to be accessed.

My Dickinson has a wee closure plate that is revealed once the entire front face of the stove is removed. There will be soot/carbon buildup that needs to be removed.

Failure to do so can actually be dangerous. I have never had this happen to me not seen it, but was told by another long term Dickinson user/owner that sometimes if that carbon layer builds up too high a fire can start in it if the stove is really hot. So it's good you found it. There will be some left. Same in mine, not able to get all of it, but the remainer should not be a problem.

I do mine about every two to three years. You might want to check on yours yearly for a couple years untill you get a feel of how fast the buildup occurs. If you only use the stove for heating, not cooking in the oven therefore not using the damper, it will be slower to build up.