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Old 11-13-2017, 05:06 PM   #1
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Adding a Jog Lever

I'm looking at adding a jog lever for rapid rudder control when close quarter handling.

Current thought is to add a lever to the Raymarine Evolution hydraulic pilot.

Another possible approach may be to add a lever control to the hydraulic circuit.

Anybody done either of these?
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:13 PM   #2
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I have a jog lever with my Comnav autopilot, probably pretty similar to what Raymarine offers. I use it in the cockpit primary for fishing. Works well.
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:23 PM   #3
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They're used on the commercial fishing fleet here. Not a wheel to be seen on the helm nowadays. The captains prefer them connected directly to the steering for NFU (no follow up) steering. Nudge the joystick a little one way or the other & that's where the rudder stays. I cant ever remember wiring anything for follow-up steering. ComNav makes a good unit.
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Old 11-13-2017, 06:03 PM   #4
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Check out the Jastram line. I like the followup units, more intuitive for the rec boater. See the "lever controllers" section. Got to use one on another guys boat and loved it.

Marine Steering - Jastram Engineering Ltd. - Marine Hydraulic Cylinders, Steering Systems, Digital Ship Controls and Boat Motor Starters - Product Specifications

But they make regular jog levers too.
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Old 11-13-2017, 06:19 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
Check out the Jastram line. I like the followup units, more intuitive for the rec boater. See the "lever controllers" section. Got to use one on another guys boat and loved it.

Marine Steering - Jastram Engineering Ltd. - Marine Hydraulic Cylinders, Steering Systems, Digital Ship Controls and Boat Motor Starters - Product Specifications

But they make regular jog levers too.
Thanks George, good info.

I'm thinking that NFU would suit me better for close quarters control - not enough free hands to hold jog lever whilst working throttle and shift. I need the rudder to remain where it is when the lever is let go.
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Old 11-13-2017, 06:22 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Ken E. View Post
I have a jog lever with my Comnav autopilot, probably pretty similar to what Raymarine offers. I use it in the cockpit primary for fishing. Works well.
Ken, do you have FU or NFU system?

I don't think that Raymarine offers a jog lever option these days, but we'll see.
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Old 11-13-2017, 06:43 PM   #7
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Mine is a NFU. As Boomerang described, you nudge the lever and the rudders move and stay in that position. For shorthanded fishing while running downriggers and changing baits, it works very well.
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:43 PM   #8
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Libra came with this 'steering' lever in the photo when I brought her over last year and this is my first experience with such a thing. I didn't know what to think of it when I surveyed her as I could not get the hang of it then. It is 'variable speed' in that the further you push left or right, the higher the flow rate of hydraulic. You can feather the rudder or put her hard over right quickly if desired. That takes a bit of getting used to.
After a bit of use I know what I think of it now. Nice!! I expect the next time I touch the wheel is when this lever fails. Pilot for open water and lever in close so no use for the wheel in most cases.
It is NFU and the only connection to the AP70 as far as I know is that it kicks the pilot to standby when the lever is actuated. It worked as a stand alone to steer before I added the new AP this Spring.
Very nice and I highly recommend it.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle419 View Post
Thanks George, good info.

I'm thinking that NFU would suit me better for close quarters control - not enough free hands to hold jog lever whilst working throttle and shift. I need the rudder to remain where it is when the lever is let go.
I have had FU steering integrated with Simrad autopilots on two boats. Simrad FU levers have graduated scales that coincide with the actual rudder angle. In operation, the steering lever stays where you leave it. It is NOT spring loaded. You 'command' or 'specify' a rudder deflection with the lever and the rudder 'follows up' to the commanded angle. For example, move the steering lever quickly 25 to port and let go. The pump will move the rudder port 25 and stop. It is easy and foolproof to center the helm by simply moving the lever to 0.

NFU steering moves the rudder as long as you move the stick or press the button. Let go and the rudder stops where it is. This is fine underway, but at low or no speed, you don't know the rudder angle unless you have another independent rudder angle indicator, which many do.

I found FU steering to be much easier and more precise, but that's just my opinion.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:19 AM   #10
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Thanks Bill and Larry,

As always there's more than one way to go with this. Here I was thinking that NFU was the way, but FU without a return spring also looks good.
I've got a large rudder indicator centre panel, so that helps.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:09 AM   #11
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Could these work?
Tractor version of the same?

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...stick&_sacat=0
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:12 AM   #12
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With a jog stick I would be sure the rudder position indicator was very reliable.
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:07 AM   #13
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Check how fast your AP pump can move rudder from lock to lock. Mine is kind of slow compared to cranking the wheel. I wonder if AP pump runs at a higher speed using a jog lever?
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:19 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by LarryM View Post
I have had FU steering integrated with Simrad autopilots on two boats. Simrad FU levers have graduated scales that coincide with the actual rudder angle. In operation, the steering lever stays where you leave it. It is NOT spring loaded. You 'command' or 'specify' a rudder deflection with the lever and the rudder 'follows up' to the commanded angle. For example, move the steering lever quickly 25 to port and let go. The pump will move the rudder port 25 and stop. It is easy and foolproof to center the helm by simply moving the lever to 0.

NFU steering moves the rudder as long as you move the stick or press the button. Let go and the rudder stops where it is. This is fine underway, but at low or no speed, you don't know the rudder angle unless you have another independent rudder angle indicator, which many do.

I found FU steering to be much easier and more precise, but that's just my opinion.
That was my experience as well. Thanks for articulating it better than I could!
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:11 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by LarryM View Post
I have had FU steering integrated with Simrad autopilots on two boats. Simrad FU levers have graduated scales that coincide with the actual rudder angle. In operation, the steering lever stays where you leave it. It is NOT spring loaded. You 'command' or 'specify' a rudder deflection with the lever and the rudder 'follows up' to the commanded angle. For example, move the steering lever quickly 25 to port and let go. The pump will move the rudder port 25 and stop. It is easy and foolproof to center the helm by simply moving the lever to 0.

NFU steering moves the rudder as long as you move the stick or press the button. Let go and the rudder stops where it is. This is fine underway, but at low or no speed, you don't know the rudder angle unless you have another independent rudder angle indicator, which many do.

I found FU steering to be much easier and more precise, but that's just my opinion.
Not familiar with these - trying to wrap my head around the physics of the hydraulics and a single RAM at the rudder....

So if you turn your wheel to move the rudder, does the FU lever also get "pushed" to a new position?
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:39 PM   #16
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Not familiar with these - trying to wrap my head around the physics of the hydraulics and a single RAM at the rudder....

So if you turn your wheel to move the rudder, does the FU lever also get "pushed" to a new position?
No, when you move the steering wheel, the FU lever does not move. It is just an electronic control that tells the autopilot to turn the rudder to the desired position angle. When the FU lever is in operation the steering wheel remains stationary.

Both the steering wheel/pump and the autopilot pump have internal check valves that isolate them from one another. The RAM reacts to whatever pressure it sees, regardless of the source.

As for the single ram, it contains a 2-sided piston with hydraulic pressure applied to one side or the other, depending upon which way the wheel or autopilot pump provides pressure.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:43 PM   #17
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No, when you move the steering wheel, the FU lever does not move. It is just an electronic control that tells the autopilot to turn the rudder to the desired position angle. When the FU lever is in operation the steering wheel remains stationary.

Both the steering wheel/pump and the autopilot pump have internal check valves that isolate them from one another. The RAM reacts to whatever pressure it sees, regardless of the source.

As for the single ram, it contains a 2-sided piston with hydraulic pressure applied to one side or the other, depending upon which way the wheel or autopilot pump provides pressure.
I think I see what you are saying. But somewhere up there you (or others) implied that the (specifically FU, not NFU) lever being centered indicated that the rudder was therefore centered.

If the wheel can move the rudder off-center independently, then how can the lever indicate the rudder position?

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Old 11-14-2017, 01:39 PM   #18
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I think I see what you are saying. But somewhere up there you (or others) implied that the (specifically FU, not NFU) lever being centered indicated that the rudder was therefore centered.

If the wheel can move the rudder off-center independently, then how can the lever indicate the rudder position?

The FU lever is only in play when engaged/active. When the autopilot is in standby mode, it doesn't matter where the lever it is pointed.

As an aside, you always want to center it before engaging when underway so you don't begin an immediate unintended turn. Ask me how I know . . . .
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Old 11-14-2017, 04:32 PM   #19
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Could these work?
Tractor version of the same?

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...stick&_sacat=0
Thanks Simi,
I reckon the extra hydraulic plumbing would be a major hassle, so I'm hoping the simpler AP solution will be the way to go.
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Old 11-14-2017, 04:40 PM   #20
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Check how fast your AP pump can move rudder from lock to lock. Mine is kind of slow compared to cranking the wheel. I wonder if AP pump runs at a higher speed using a jog lever?
Excellent point thanks Ski, although even if the rudder is still a bit slow stop to stop, using a lever still leaves two hands free for the other stuff.
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