Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-21-2013, 10:17 AM   #1
Guru
 
Dougcole's Avatar
 
City: Carrabelle, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Morgan
Vessel Model: '05 Mainship 40T
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 800
AC residential freezer on board?

Any body tried running a small residential chest type freezer on board? Our new boat has a perfect spot under the companionway stairs and we need more freezer space for long cruises.

I've been looking at portable fridge/freezer units from waeco and engel, but they are pricey for the size. Best thing about them is the ability to be ac/dc. I don't think they are really marinized.

Do you think I could run about a 5 cu ft chest freezer off of a small inverter?

Thx.
Doug
__________________
Advertisement

Dougcole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 10:25 AM   #2
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,956
Running any residential applicance is a non issue with an inverter.

The challenge is that many people do not want to opt for a good quality wired in inverter. They are not cheap.

I'm from the school that has always had a large wired in inverter/charger on the boat. Even on boats that did not have a generator.
__________________

__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 10:51 AM   #3
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougcole View Post

Do you think I could run about a 5 cu ft chest freezer off of a small inverter?
"small inverter" ? You would have to find the freezer's maximum current draw and then select an inverter that is capable od supplying that current on a continuous basis.

You would have to use large enough conductors between the batteries and inverter to prevent a large voltage drop. And install appropriate overcurrent protection.

You would have to have enough battery capacity to power the inverter under load for several hours, perhaps several days, depending on your useage.

An inverter is at best 85% efficient so there's a power loss there to accounf for.

A residential freezer is typically not as well insulated as a marine freezer because there is a readily, cheep source of power available 24/7.

Could you do it? Sure you could. Should you do it? I wouldn't but some people would try it.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 10:53 AM   #4
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
Running any residential applicance is a non issue with an inverter..............
Not true. Some appliances, most notably microwave ovens, will not work or work well powered by a "modified sine wave" inverter. A true sine wave inverter is required at three times the cost.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 11:31 AM   #5
Guru
 
Dougcole's Avatar
 
City: Carrabelle, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Morgan
Vessel Model: '05 Mainship 40T
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 800
That's my thought as well, I can save probably $400 on the freezer, but may spend that to change the setup of batteries, inverter etc. The batts are pretty far from the space where it would sit, so that is a lot of cable. Unless I set it up with a dedicated battery and put it right next to the freezer, like a bow thruster is sometimes set up. easy enough to do a dedicated ac charger, but how would it charge from the alternators?

Or, I guess I could put the inverter next to the batts and run an extension cord to the freezer.

Just a thought. May not be worth it.
Dougcole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 11:49 AM   #6
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post

Not true. Some appliances, most notably microwave ovens, will not work or work well powered by a "modified sine wave" inverter. A true sine wave inverter is required at three times the cost.
My apologies, I had no clue people actually still use modified sine wave inverters.

I have only used full sine wave wired in inverters
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 12:32 PM   #7
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
My apologies, I had no clue people actually still use modified sine wave inverters.
Just flip through the pages of any marine or RV catalog. Most are modified sine wave.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 12:33 PM   #8
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougcole View Post
........ Or, I guess I could put the inverter next to the batts and run an extension cord to the freezer.
That would be the way to do it. Or run a circuit from the inverter to an outlet near the freezer.

The higher the voltage, the less loss in the cables.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 01:57 PM   #9
Guru
 
Portuguese's Avatar
 
City: Salvador - BA
Country: Brazil
Vessel Name: Rainha Jannota
Vessel Model: Curruira 46
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 662
Send a message via MSN to Portuguese
...yeahp, Inverter is the way to connect AC equipment on a boat runing with batteries.
By the way, here in Brazil we only have Xantrex. I am almost buying 2 x 3000 watts Xantrex XPower. One on and another as back-up.
Is that a good choice? What is the downside?

Thks
Portuguese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 04:21 PM   #10
Guru
 
Moonfish's Avatar


 
City: Port Townsend, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Traveler
Vessel Model: Cheoy Lee 46 LRC
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 702
Our friends own a DeFever 54 and have placed a household AC chest freezer on their covered back deck. His rationale is that for about $200 he gets more cubic feet of freezer space and should see around a two to three year lifespan. They don't liveaboard, so it will not be running continuously, and they have a very stout 5000W Outback inverter (along with somewhere around a bazillion amp hours of battery!).
__________________
Darren
Port Townsend, WA
m/v Traveler - '79 Cheoy Lee 46 LRC
http://www.pacificnwboater.com
Moonfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 04:27 PM   #11
Guru
 
Moonfish's Avatar


 
City: Port Townsend, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Traveler
Vessel Model: Cheoy Lee 46 LRC
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Portuguese View Post
...yeahp, Inverter is the way to connect AC equipment on a boat runing with batteries.
By the way, here in Brazil we only have Xantrex. I am almost buying 2 x 3000 watts Xantrex XPower. One on and another as back-up.
Is that a good choice? What is the downside?

Thks
When we purchased our boat she had an older Xantrex inverter. We needed a pure sine wave model, so I researched and spoke with some independent dealers and electronics guys that simply said about Xantrex "do not buy that Chinese crap". They stated inferior parts, poor QC, and poor engineering. This all, I believe, since the manufacturing was moved to China years ago.

They all recommended Outback or Magnum as superior in every way, not the least of which was customer service should you need it. We went with a Magnum 2000W inverter/100a smart charger and are very happy with it. Could you get one online from the US or a nearby country?
__________________
Darren
Port Townsend, WA
m/v Traveler - '79 Cheoy Lee 46 LRC
http://www.pacificnwboater.com
Moonfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 04:31 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
funangler's Avatar
 
City: Erie PA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Endless Endeavor
Vessel Model: Custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 214
I run a full size fridge/freezer for days on 2 8d batteries no issues. Some ac/dc motors draw way more power then straight ac motor just something to watch for.
funangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 05:06 PM   #13
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,920
put the inverter near the batts...whether you use a power cord or wire an outlet near the freezer is up to you.

Modified sine wave inverters are so good now they run just about anything including my microwave. If it burns up the microwave...I can buy 20 or more till I get to the price of a whole boat sine wave inverter...
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 09:00 PM   #14
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,802
If the only purpose for the inverter is to power the freezer, then your suspicion that it is a zero sum game at best $$-wise is probably correct, vs getting an AC/DC freezer from someone like Waeco. My guess is you will find other uses. Which of course may mean you will want to buy bigger batteries. And so it goes.

Portuguese: I will double ditto Moonfish' comments on inverter types and brands. I have had a complete Magnum system for over five years of heavy use now, great company to do business with. Contact them, or Victron or Mastervolt, they make units for all global markets. But we prefer you buy Magnum so all the dollars come to the good old USA! Avoid Xantrex if at all possible.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 09:52 PM   #15
Guru
 
Daddyo's Avatar


 
City: Cruising East Coast US
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Grace
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,441
We run everything off our Magnum 3100W modified sine wave inverter accept AC. The air is the only thing, including the microwave that does not like the MSW. We went MSW because it had a much larger charger then the PSW. Magnums are great units. As to the freezer I would opt for the "home" unit every time. The extra cost of the "marine" units can not be supported by a longevity argument. After all the boat is your "home" for many.

Oh I forgot. What ever you buy fill it up and it will hardly need to run after you get the temps down. Also remember that cold air drops so if you insulate (you should) then be sure to insulate the bottom.
__________________
Mark Bowerman
Brokerage owner and cruiser
Esse Quam Videri
http://graceyachting.com/
Daddyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 12:21 AM   #16
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonfish View Post
When we purchased our boat she had an older Xantrex inverter. We needed a pure sine wave model, so I researched and spoke with some independent dealers and electronics guys that simply said about Xantrex "do not buy that Chinese crap". They stated inferior parts, poor QC, and poor engineering. This all, I believe, since the manufacturing was moved to China years ago.

They all recommended Outback or Magnum as superior in every way, not the least of which was customer service should you need it. We went with a Magnum 2000W inverter/100a smart charger and are very happy with it. Could you get one online from the US or a nearby country?

I've only had Xantrex inverters on my boats for a very long time. I've never had one fail.

Xantrex makes several price point inverters. The units I've had were always at the upper limit of their product line at the time of purchase.

I've heard great things about Magnum and Outback, but I don't think they make a low budget inverter like Xantrex does, so comparisons may not be apples to apples.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 12:56 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Capn Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 418
As has been my experience running a 'home use deep freeze' I'd say go for it. I run a 2.8 cu. ft chest freezer on board powered by a cheap modified sine wave inverter with great success. As to the modified sine vs. true sine wave conundrum, there are a few things that a modified sine is not ideal for, but not many. True 120v AC is 120 volts RMS, or 'root mean squared' if you measured the peak to peak voltage on an oscilloscope you would see about 160V or so. The modified sine wave would measure 120V, since the peaks of what should be a sine wave are clipped. Back in the early 90's I mentioned to a electrical engineer friend that I was concerned that my new inverter on the boat was defective. my Fluke meter measured my inverter output at about 95 volts. He asked my what model Fluke do you have? I answered a 23. He said, well that's not a true RMS meter. here borrow mine, a 73 (true RMS) and report back tomorrow. I did and it measured 118v. So what AC equipment cares it is being fed a stepped voltage instead of real AC? Things that need the peak voltage such as AC to DC battery chargers, the microwave, possibly some electronics. The microwave will run but cook times may be increased. Same for the cell phone charger, cordless drill charger, and the TV may not have a perfect picture. But my experience is they will work. Things that use transformers are effected. Remember that the starting current for the freezer and AC motors in general may be double or more the constant current draw. So oversize the inverter and look for a large surge capability. When I'm cruising and in need of freezer capacity, the engines are running for a large percentage of time, I really don't care how much energy I draw from the batteries, as the engine alternators put out more than I can draw off. If I was concerned, I'm not, I could turn off the freezer when the engines are not running and it would stay frozen just fine.
Capn Craig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 05:39 AM   #18
Guru
 
Daddyo's Avatar


 
City: Cruising East Coast US
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Grace
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
I've only had Xantrex inverters on my boats for a very long time. I've never had one fail.

Xantrex makes several price point inverters. The units I've had were always at the upper limit of their product line at the time of purchase.

I've heard great things about Magnum and Outback, but I don't think they make a low budget inverter like Xantrex does, so comparisons may not be apples to apples.

The old Xantrex were fine it's the new ones that are garbage. Our MSW 3100w/160amp Magnum was about $1600, that seems pretty cheep to me. We run computers, LCD TVs, microwave, tools, compressor, battery chargers, phone chargers, LCD TV, CFL bulbs, hot water heater, space heaters, blow dryers, heat guns, XBOX, DVD players, refridgerator and every kitchen appliance known to man all with no problems.
__________________
Mark Bowerman
Brokerage owner and cruiser
Esse Quam Videri
http://graceyachting.com/
Daddyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 06:35 AM   #19
Guru
 
CaptTom's Avatar
 
City: Southern Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cygnus
Vessel Model: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,378
On a sort of related note, how would a "home" refrigerator or freezer fare on a boat underway? I haven't bought one in a while, but they all used to come with dire warnings to level them perfectly, and not to start them until they've remained level for hours.
CaptTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 07:27 AM   #20
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptTom View Post
On a sort of related note, how would a "home" refrigerator or freezer fare on a boat underway? I haven't bought one in a while, but they all used to come with dire warnings to level them perfectly, and not to start them until they've remained level for hours.
They do fine....at least on a powerboat..not sure about the big heel of a sailboat.

I don't recall which ones...but some boats new come with home appliances and certainly most commercial boats (they get retrofitted or even original with them.)
__________________

psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012