Unasked Liveaboard Questions

[Art]

Very well-stated distinction. "Accessibility" -- to all portions of machinery and systems that need maintenance -- is the key. "Stand-up" may or may not provide that.

-Chris

I hate to be kept bent over and pretty much refuse to be kept in a crawl while working on engines as well as other equipment in engine compartment [or room]. Standing head room is a requirement of mine. The feature of dual sided, wide open, large, hinged hatches in the sole of our our boat's salon was one of the primary reasons we purchased her... and are soooo glad we did.

 

[Bay Pelican]

Miele can be used the same and do twice the volume of wash.

Most admit with a 13 year old washer dryer I haven't kept up with the changes. Is the Miele combo unit (washer and dryer) 110 volts. When I searched the internet I found that the units with dryers were 240 volts.

Of course this doesn't matter to those whose normal electricity is 240 volts.

 

[BandB]

The question for many liveaboards is do you just like living aboard , or do you like using the boat,, AKA boating?

From what I have seen living aboard reduces boating.

So what do you want the boat for?

I agree with Moonfish. I don't see your observation being true at all. While there are some just using the boat as an apartment there are others using it a lot. Most using it as much as they have time to do. Many who don't boat much are getting it ready for the time they will boat. We have excellent examples here of those who have spent hundreds, maybe thousands, of hours fixing their boat up, remodeling, decorating for the Christmas parade, but haven't yet been able to make the long trips they desire due to other commitments.

You've attempted to redefine "using the boat" as "boating." Tricky but that's not right. You can use it without ever moving it. Now, then the question is boating and many liveaboards are boating quite a bit.

 

[ksanders]

It is also the "mental comfort" of knowing they have a place to go if the cruising thing stops being fun....regardless of how "recent" their experience is with visiting or living on the dirt. It serves as a security blanket. And I think women need that security blanket more than men. Men are a little more nomadic while women are a little more nesters. Anyway, I will likely keep a dirt home when I cruise full time to give her(and me too) a little comfort in knowing our entire being is not on the boat....whether we spend 100% of the time on it or not.

Baker, that is 100% correct.

I may at times feel tied down by our home, but I am also secretly very happy that my wife won't let us go "all in" by selling everything.

I've even gotten to a point where I quit going on Yachtworld and "boat dreaming" using my homes value as an adder to set a search budget.

There is something to be said for having a nice, comfortable place with all your stuff. Stuff I do not relish selling for pennies on the dollar, only to be replaced at some point for full price.

 

[BandB]

Baker, that is 100% correct.

I may at times feel tied down by our home, but I am also secretly very happy that my wife won't let us go "all in" by selling everything.

I've even gotten to a point where I quit going on Yachtworld and "boat dreaming" using my homes value as an adder to set a search budget.

Wifey B: I love how all you guys blame your wife for keeping the land home, like Baker, but then are forced to admit if makes you happy too. Perhaps her wisdom kept you from making a mistake.

Actually I think that's a part of marriage, that both keep the other from getting carried away and doing something not best for the two of them. I know we both have just what feel like great impulses and ideas and then the other slows us down and a week or month later we realize it wasn't a great idea.

 

[ksanders]

Wifey B: I love how all you guys blame your wife for keeping the land home, like Baker, but then are forced to admit if makes you happy too. Perhaps her wisdom kept you from making a mistake.

Actually I think that's a part of marriage, that both keep the other from getting carried away and doing something not best for the two of them. I know we both have just what feel like great impulses and ideas and then the other slows us down and a week or month later we realize it wasn't a great idea.

Yes you are correct. It makes us men feel more like our explorer forefathers to think "if it were my decision I'd..." knowing that it's not just our decision, and glad for it.

 

[FF]

"Many who don't boat much are getting it ready for the time they will boat."

No question living on board is boating , and a grand lifestyle.

Many are "getting ready" for 5 -15 years , and eventually decide a different boat is required. They then get ready once again.

My point was that living aboard IS a style of boating , and that lifestyle is enhanced with a boat designed to be a house afloat.

Cruising frequently can be done with a far smaller boat, lower cost in purchase, maint and skill levels .

Always the same question, the destination or the journey?.

 

[BandB]

Always the same question, the destination or the journey?.

Both.

 

[Moonfish]

Very well-stated distinction. "Accessibility" -- to all portions of machinery and systems that need maintenance -- is the key. "Stand-up" may or may not provide that.

-Chris

True. However, I've yet to be in a full stand up engine room on a recreational vessel that did not also provide excellent accessibility to everything (although I imagine they are out there). I've always considered "stand up" and "accessibility" one in the same.

I've always wondered about the Grand Banks 50s, though. IIRC there is a full length hallway running the center of the boat belowdecks that effectively splits the main engines into separate stand up engine rooms. To any GB50 owners here, does that layout impact mechanical accessibility?

 

[Bigsfish]

To go back a bit: Scott if your car sits for six months why keep it? Why not use rentals or Uber to save money? Please educate! Thanks.

 

[BandB]

To go back a bit: Scott if your car sits for six months why keep it? Why not use rentals or Uber to save money? Please educate! Thanks.

I can't speak for Scott, but our cars sit for 9 months out of every 12. Makes zero financial sense to own them. However, we're part of the car owning culture. Two are our dream sports cars and the other an SUV. Just can't deal with the thought of not owning a car, although millions in places like NYC never own one. I think it's partly convenience too, the ability to go where we want to when we want to. Drive around as much was we want, come home when we want.

Where I said it makes no financial sense for us to own, definitely not to own three, but I'm not sure it doesn't on one. An example. We decide we want to drive up to take a friend in Delray Beach to dinner. That's either a day rental or $150 probably by taxi or Uber. Drive there, pick her up, drive home. We want the next day to go look at sofas so we drive all day around the area. Definitely a rental. Plus the hassle of daily rentals make it impractical. So what about monthly. Well, most of those run $700 or more. SUV's can run $1000 to $2000. Plus we don't do our home time like that. We're more home something like 3 weeks 4 or 5 times a year. Suddenly we're spending $3000 to $10,000 on rentals. With a car sitting there we're just dealing with depreciation while it sits and when it's only getting 4000-5000 miles a year, it's got a long life. So, one could have a car for 10 years or more.

It's just not as bad owning as it sounds at first.

 

[Baker]

I don't think FF's points should be discounted. He is right for the most part regardless of semantics. Many and I would say most liveaboards do not use their boats as much. It is easy to say that we, here on this website, do not fit that crowd but I think we are a small subset of those that liveaboard. While I don't liveaboard, when I did, we would take the boat out just as much as we always did. In fact, it was a bonus knowing your "inventory" at any given moment and knowing exactly what you needed(groveries, etc) for a trip. Instead of going to the grocery store and buying $300 worth of crap for a weekend trip that you never come close to eating.

Many times, you could just get the boat rigged for sea and untie your lines and off you go. As a non-liveaboard, it is carts full of crap down the dock and back to the car to get another cartful of crap....and then return much of that crap when you get back on Sunday. Living aboard made taking trips much more efficient!!!

 

[BandB]

I don't think FF's points should be discounted. He is right for the most part regardless of semantics. Many and I would say most liveaboards do not use their boats as much. It is easy to say that we, here on this website, do not fit that crowd but I think we are a small subset of those that liveaboard. While I don't liveaboard, when I did, we would take the boat out just as much as we always did. In fact, it was a bonus knowing your "inventory" at any given moment and knowing exactly what you needed(groveries, etc) for a trip. Instead of going to the grocery store and buying $300 worth of crap for a weekend trip that you never come close to eating.

Many times, you could just get the boat rigged for sea and untie your lines and off you go. As a non-liveaboard, it is carts full of crap down the dock and back to the car to get another cartful of crap....and then return much of that crap when you get back on Sunday. Living aboard made taking trips much more efficient!!!

Much easier to prepare to cruise as a liveaboard. I do think though that in saying liveaboards use their boats less, that's ignoring a huge number of boaters who very rarely ever even visit their boats. There are boats that sit at marinas here that the owner may come from NY to use twice a year if lucky. There are boats here that haven't been used in two or three years. I just don't see anyway living aboard ties to using a boat less. Less than who? Less than non liveaboards? All none liveaboards? It's so much more convenient for a liveaboard. The drive to the boat is, let's see how many miles, oh 0. To drive to the boat takes how many minutes? 0.

Now, there is a subset of liveaboards living on boats that aren't seaworthy, some not even having engines. Most marinas here, however, are not allowing those anymore or certainly moving away from them. Boats have to be operable.

 

[Baker]

Much easier to prepare to cruise as a liveaboard. I do think though that in saying liveaboards use their boats less, that's ignoring a huge number of boaters who very rarely ever even visit their boats. There are boats that sit at marinas here that the owner may come from NY to use twice a year if lucky. There are boats here that haven't been used in two or three years. I just don't see anyway living aboard ties to using a boat less. Less than who? Less than non liveaboards? All none liveaboards? It's so much more convenient for a liveaboard. The drive to the boat is, let's see how many miles, oh 0. To drive to the boat takes how many minutes? 0.

Now, there is a subset of liveaboards living on boats that aren't seaworthy, some not even having engines. Most marinas here, however, are not allowing those anymore or certainly moving away from them. Boats have to be operable.

Again, you are relating everything to YOU. Maybe you don't stay put long enough to see the liveaboards that never take their boats out. But yes, the comparison being to non liveaboards. SO you are asking, as the entire SET of boaters, does the subset of liveaboards use their boats any more or less than non-liveaboards???.... Don't know. You are getting down to the scientific data that none of us have...unless we go out and get it. I think FF's point, and mine, is we know an awful lot of liveaboards that hardly, if ever, take their boats out. And your point being, you know an awful lot of non-liveaboards that don't take their boats out. I get it. What is the ratio and comparison....who knows.... but if you say liveaboards are "using" their boats even when they don't move, then I will say the non-liveaboards that "use" their boats move their boats more often than liveaboards....how's that???

 

[Bigsfish]

Certainly one advantage of being a live aboard means you can not, will not accumulate the amount of crap if your living on land.

I haven't done a cost analysis of owning a car vs not, but between insurance, maintenance, depreciation, repairs, taxes, tag purchase, ect I would be surprised if having a car for use only a few months a year would be a great financial decision. Further if you traveled around and visited many ports your vehicle wouldn't be there anyway.

Just my SSO.

 

[Bigsfish]

Baker

"but if you say liveaboards are "using" their boats even when they don't move, then I will say the non-liveaboards that "use" their boats move their boats more often than liveaboards....how's that??? "

Whoa, give me another rum. LOL

 

[Baker]

Baker

"but if you say liveaboards are "using" their boats even when they don't move, then I will say the non-liveaboards that "use" their boats move their boats more often than liveaboards....how's that??? "

Whoa, give me another rum. LOL

Hahaha....I had to think about that one for a bit!!!

 

[Bigsfish]

What is the percentage of live a boards move their boats a few times a year vs never move?

 

[Ken E.]

The question for many liveaboards is do you just like living aboard , or do you like using the boat,, AKA boating?

From what I have seen living aboard reduces boating.

So what do you want the boat for?

In my marina in Bellingham, most of the the liveaboards seldom move out of their slips. So to answer F'F's question of what do you want your boat for, these people want to use their boats primarily as condo's. To my mind, that's just their spin on boat ownership, and it makes some sense.....waterfront living in a nice setting at a reasonable price. When they do spend some time out cruising, it's a bonus.

Seattle's Lake Union, to the south of us, has lots of big boats and liveaboards, being close to downtown. I'd be curious to hear from someone there, if those boats move much, even in the summer.

 

[BandB]

Again, you are relating everything to YOU. Maybe you don't stay put long enough to see the liveaboards that never take their boats out. But yes, the comparison being to non liveaboards. SO you are asking, as the entire SET of boaters, does the subset of liveaboards use their boats any more or less than non-liveaboards???.... Don't know. You are getting down to the scientific data that none of us have...unless we go out and get it. I think FF's point, and mine, is we know an awful lot of liveaboards that hardly, if ever, take their boats out. And your point being, you know an awful lot of non-liveaboards that don't take their boats out. I get it. What is the ratio and comparison....who knows.... but if you say liveaboards are "using" their boats even when they don't move, then I will say the non-liveaboards that "use" their boats move their boats more often than liveaboards....how's that???

Yes, I am saying that I do believe, although can't prove, that liveaboards use their boats as boats more than non liveaboards do. I'm not relating it at all to me. I'm relating to observation made in many different areas. I'm also relating it to some data gathered from marinas such as their specifications on dry storage units and how small a percentage of the boats are used. We can't know who is right, but I just don't see a reason to think liveaboards use their boats as boats less than non-liveaboards. It's illogical to me. Their boats are more convenient. They've shown a love of their boats. They don't sort of slip out of their norm. I don't argue that a lot of liveaboards never move. I've seen marinas with as many as 20 liveaboards that I don't think could move if they had to and know hadn't been moved for years. However, I've seen marinas where other boats were so covered with dirt, soot, bird droppings, and more that you could tell they'd been years of non use. Reality is that most boats are used very little. A lot of boat owners would save money renting or chartering. I hope those owners never realize that or the industry is in trouble.

 

[BandB]

Seattle's Lake Union, to the south of us, has lots of big boats and liveaboards, being close to downtown. I'd be curious to hear from someone there, if those boats move much, even in the summer.

It has seemed to me, although I certainly have nothing to support this other than observation and talking to people, that the closer the liveaboard boats are to major cities the more you have that never move. Partly with rental prices on apartments and condo prices, the boat is a better deal.

 

[ksanders]

To go back a bit: Scott if your car sits for six months why keep it? Why not use rentals or Uber to save money? Please educate! Thanks.

I need to show this to the wife.

Her Z06 sits in storage for 6 months out of the year. But then again the fun of going 150 and not getting caught is priceless.

 

[BandB]

I need to show this to the wife.

Her Z06 sits in storage for 6 months out of the year. But then again the fun of going 150 and not getting caught is priceless.

Wifey B: You'll just not be invited to ride in it anymore if you try that. My Porsche is now 4 1/3 years old and has only 16,000 miles on it, so obviously not used much. I have been tempted a couple of times in selling it because of the acts of Porsche management, but then I'd have to find something else. I'll probably keep it a long long long long long long long long long long long time. Talking to wife about selling her Z06 isn't likely to go well. I'd put that idea in the

 

[Britannia]

2016 was my first full calendar year of living aboard. I work full time and have no dirt home or address. Just a storage unit and a car (not slept in either yet!). I spent a total of 30 days away from my slip during last year. All I have to do to leave is make a regular grocery store run, pump out (I can do this at my slip) and top off the water tanks. Having everything else I need already on the boat makes it much easier.

I still want to get out more this year than I did last year.

There is one downside that I have noticed. It used to be an exciting novelty to take the boat out and live on her for a weekend or a week. I was away from the day-to-day concerns of home. Now I'm always home even when I'm away! The novelty isn't quite the same, and I don't escape the unfinished home chores in the same way. I'm not complaining though.

Of course I'm a self-selecting data point since I'm here on TF.

Richard

 

[Bigsfish]

B&B

I agree that most boaters would find it more economical to rent or charter a boat when they wanted to use it but many of us enjoy the simple ownership or pride of ownership. I know up until about 8 years ago one of my great pleasures was repairing and working on the boat, now my pleasure is paying someone to do all those jobs. LOL

In
Florida a marina had to make available a certain percentage of slips for daily rental as live aboards were using so many slips.

 

[psneeld]

Irv....

Getting rid of the truck for just that reason.

The rv to replace it will act as limited local transportation, storage, living space for big boat projects and best of all....magic carpet to see other family, friends and places not along water the trawler can get to easily.

 

[Bigsfish]

Scott

Sounds like you have the bases covered.

 

[Art]

Interestingly... as an example of careful planning.

Four [in good to excellent condition] Road Vehicles: 1998 4WD SUV, 1998 econo car, Semi Classic 1985 1 ton HD 4WD truck, Full-On Classic 1967 Buick Wildcat "Luxury Muscle Car".

Two [in very good condition] boats: Classic 1977 34' tri cabin Tollycraft, Classic 1975 tow behind Crestliner o/b runabout

Three relatively good condition, reasonably high value houses and properties with combined dept. approx. $43K.

Also, interestingly...

Each vehicle we own could be sold for equal or more dollar value than what we purchased it for... Except the SUV... we're a' gonna run that work horse one into the ground!

Equity in all the houses and property is "way over the top"! Only reason we keep a bit o' debt on them is wright off.

And for final pieces of interest...

1. It calcs out that our forever ongoing maintenance and ins. expenses amount to $150 +/- per month for each car which = $600 per month for cool vehicles to drive anywhere any time. Fuel cost is extra!
2. Both boats' combined cost = per annum average of $7K - including docking maintenance, repairs, haul outs and ins. Fuel cost is extra!

That comes to total expenses of $14,200 per year for all our motorized items; or, just over $1,183 per month with just over $300 per month mortgage costs additional. Tough life... but somebody needs to live it!

 

[BandB]

B&B

I agree that most boaters would find it more economical to rent or charter a boat when they wanted to use it but many of us enjoy the simple ownership or pride of ownership. I know up until about 8 years ago one of my great pleasures was repairing and working on the boat, now my pleasure is paying someone to do all those jobs. LOL

In
Florida a marina had to make available a certain percentage of slips for daily rental as live aboards were using so many slips.

The East Coast Florida trend now is fairly decent availability for Live Aboard's but they are tending to add restrictions trying to reduce derelicts. Mainly they require the boat to be operable and to be moved away from the marina by it's own propulsion at least once a year.

 

[BandB]

Interestingly... as an example of careful planning.

Four [in good to excellent condition] Road Vehicles: 1998 4WD SUV, 1998 econo car, Semi Classic 1985 1 ton HD 4WD truck, Full-On Classic 1967 Buick Wildcat "Luxury Muscle Car".

Two [in very good condition] boats: Classic 1977 34' tri cabin Tollycraft, Classic 1975 tow behind Crestliner o/b runabout

Three relatively good condition, reasonably high value houses and properties with combined dept. approx. $43K.

Also, interestingly...

Each vehicle we own could be sold for equal or more dollar value than what we purchased it for... Except the SUV... we're a' gonna run that work horse one into the ground!

Equity in all the houses and property is "way over the top"! Only reason we keep a bit o' debt on them is wright off.

And for final pieces of interest...

1. It calcs out that our forever ongoing maintenance and ins. expenses amount to $150 +/- per month for each car which = $600 per month for cool vehicles to drive anywhere any time. Fuel cost is extra!
2. Both boats' combined cost = per annum average of $7K - including docking maintenance, repairs, haul outs and ins. Fuel cost is extra!

That comes to total expenses of $14,200 per year for all our motorized items; or, just over $1,183 per month with just over $300 per month mortgage costs additional. Tough life... but somebody needs to live it!

Show off. lol.

None of our cars could be sold for what we paid.

None of our boats could be sold for what we paid.

Our house couldn't be sold easily for what we paid as it sat on the market two years before we bought it. The previous owners were speculative investors and they found out the hard way. We had a friend by a house near us that had been on the market 3 years. It was owned by an LLC with 7 members. The managing member had talked the others into the investment and didn't want them to know what it was worth. So, he just turned down the offer without letting them know. Our friend called a meeting of the members and presented his offer and it's basis. The vote was 6 to 1 to sell with the managing partner calling them a lot of names. Finally the managing partner relented and signed to make it unanimous.

We don't look at cars, boats, or our house as an investment and don't ever try to financially justify them.