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Old 02-19-2015, 05:57 PM   #101
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I think we found our boat!!

We have located a 1985 marine trader. My preinspection did not turn up any red flags. The two Perkins T6.3544's started up first turn of key and, though I do not put much stock in engine hours the show 2200 or so for each.

Do any of you with experience know of anything in particular I might want to double ck for this year/model?

Thinking of Making a offer 20% below asking price.

Oh, making good progress after my back surgery. Thank the Lord!
Hi George

Glad your are doing well.

I'm sure there are plenty who will respond that have solid experience with year/make/model boat you are interested in. I'm not well familiar with that boat maker.

20% below asking may or may-not be a good place to begin your dicker. Much depends on the asking price as well as what the boat actually needs. Start very low... can always increase your bid if desired... hard to decrease it without good reason, and then, if there is good reason - may be fully a reason to walk away.

Make sure you have plenty of "get-out-if-desired" contingencies and $$$ discounts allowed if items turn bad on some of the boat's conditions... in place before handing over DP or signing anything.

If you do move on this be sure the marine surveyor and marine mechanic are ones you hired/chose and be sure they are qualified before hiring them... by speaking with others who have used them. Also, I strongly recommend that you spend all the time they do on the survey with them and have recorder or note pad/pen at hand. Remember they work for you. So, as I've seen happen, if they get surly at your presence or questions politely remind them who is the boss paying. Still surly - say good by and fire that person. There are others!

Be careful - not that it does not happen - but this sure seems quick for you to find the "right boat". You may want to sleep on this a night or three and see some other boats before getting too committed.

Whatever you decide on any boat you desire to purchase - - > I implore you to not fall in love with it until after you actually own it. Buying a boat is a business deal, nothing more, nothing less. Pre-ownership-love places rose colored glasses on the purchaser - that's when purchase mistakes are made!

Happy Boat-Craze Daze! - Art
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Old 02-20-2015, 12:29 AM   #102
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Whatever you decide on any boat you desire to purchase - - > I implore you to not fall in love with it until after you actually own it. Buying a boat is a business deal, nothing more, nothing less.
While difficult for some people to follow, this is very sound advice on Art's part.

Also, don't forget to account for the fact that whatever boat you buy is going to continue to cost you a fair amount of money every year you own it. Called ownership costs, this is the annual cost to you of owning a boat and it includes every expense except finance payments.

There have been lots of discussions about ownership costs on this forum over the years. Enter "ownership cost" in the search function and it will bring up the posts.

A lot of people overlook this in the excitement of buying a boat, particularly for the first time. While the ownership cost of owning a cruising boat will vary considerably from boat to boat, the variables being condition, age, location, and so forth, there is a VERY rough rule of thumb you can use to get a VERY basic idea of what a boat, particulary a used boat, will cost you every year. And that is ten percent of the purchase cost of the boat.

This was the figure that was used back in 1998 when we bought our first cruiser. Today with the increase in everything from paint to zincs but particularly labor, a safer figure to use might be fifteen percent.

Some years will be more, some less, depending on what breaks.

But don't fall into the trap of overlooking this ongoing expense. If a buyer is not prepared for the ongoing costs of owning a boat it can lead to some serious financial problems and major disappointment and disillusionment down the road.

So keep ownership cost in mind as you look at boats, and read Art's previous post again.
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Old 02-20-2015, 09:07 AM   #103
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From what my limited experience in starting prices for buying a boat is...

I was told to offer 66% of what the owner asks. And of course that is if everything basically checks out O.K.
Don't forget that boat owners always think their boat is better that others of the same model.

There were a number of minor items that I wanted repaired/replaced at owners cost.

I followed this advice of starting my offer at 66% and although it took 2 weeks to close and some conciliation, I ended up paying 73% and having quite a few items replaced/repaired at the owners cost.

If you can stand a little discomfort bargaining with an owner it was - in my case - quite worth it.

Good luck
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Old 02-20-2015, 09:40 AM   #104
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From what my limited experience in starting prices for buying a boat is...

I was told to offer 66% of what the owner asks. And of course that is if everything basically checks out O.K.
Don't forget that boat owners always think their boat is better that others of the same model.

There were a number of minor items that I wanted repaired/replaced at owners cost.

I followed this advice of starting my offer at 66% and although it took 2 weeks to close and some conciliation, I ended up paying 73% and having quite a few items replaced/repaired at the owners cost.

If you can stand a little discomfort bargaining with an owner it was - in my case - quite worth it.

Good luck
Brett
Taint nutten wrong wit a bit o' good ol "Horse Traden"... when it comes to used boats, cars, motorcycles, and trucks! IMO - unless the boat or road-vehicle is already at a drop dead low price and in drop dead great condition... wherein dickeren might squash the opportunity to own it... Dickeren tiz Name of The Game!

There was one used boat and one used auto I ever purchased wherein I paid full asking price. Both were/are superior classics, both were/are in great condition... each had asking price that was approx. 1/4 actual value. I knew if I tried to dicker for even a minute there were others in line that would have swooped em up! On the auto, even though it was silly inexpensive, I will admit I did try to get an additional cash discount... when the owner started walking toward his house, grumbling: "NO, I'm going to phone the others"... I instantly conceded to his full and exceptionally reasonable price.

1967 Buick Wildcat I purchased in 1998 - Still have It and Love It!

1975 Crestliner "Stinger" tow behind runabout with 1975 50 hp Johnson o/b I purchased in 2010 - Still have It and Love It!

I've found that to really get the great deals... Early Bird Catches the Worm and Cash is KING!
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Old 02-21-2015, 10:17 AM   #105
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I think we found our boat!!

We have located a 1985 marine trader. My preinspection did not turn up any red flags. The two Perkins T6.3544's started up first turn of key and, though I do not put much stock in engine hours the show 2200 or so for each.

Do any of you with experience know of anything in particular I might want to double ck for this year/model?

Thinking of Making a offer 20% below asking price.

Oh, making good progress after my back surgery. Thank the Lord!
Glad you are doing better frgeorgeh. I haven't been on the Trawler site in about a week.
Also glad you found a boat, my husband is going today to look at a trawler sold by the owner this time not a broker. We had a lot of bad luck trying to go through a broker with the last few boats we looked at.
Good luck to you and your wife, let us know how it turns out send pictures of your new boat ok?
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Old 02-21-2015, 03:51 PM   #106
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We had a lot of bad luck trying to go through a broker with the last few boats we looked at.
Care to elaborate on the broker issues? The sellers broker we are talking to has been pretty helpful so far.

George
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:45 PM   #107
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No boat yet. Decided to look at a few more before making our offer on the Marine Trader.

Another thing newbies like us should consider is to try and figure out what marina u want to be in and give them a call to check availability. We just checked lighthouse point near deer field amd, for the size vessel we are looking at there is a two page wa> ting list for an annual contract! The Harbor Master 38 to 42 ft boats are all anyone seems to be buying right now so slips for those size boats are few, far between, and this far south very $$$$!
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Old 02-21-2015, 06:07 PM   #108
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Greetings,
Mr. fr. I can't remember if this has been mentioned but have you engaged a broker to work on YOUR behalf (buyers broker)? I can recommend someone in the Ft. Lauderdale area.
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Old 02-21-2015, 09:59 PM   #109
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Greetings,
Mr. fr. I can't remember if this has been mentioned but have you engaged a broker to work on YOUR behalf (buyers broker)? I can recommend someone in the Ft. Lauderdale area.
I have not. We are working through the sellers broker to make the offer. I think we will make a low offer to him Monday and see what happens. I figure I can always go up if needed but there ain't no coming back down!

Do you think I need a buyers broker?
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Old 02-21-2015, 10:55 PM   #110
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I have not. We are working through the sellers broker to make the offer. I think we will make a low offer to him Monday and see what happens. I figure I can always go up if needed but there ain't no coming back down!

Do you think I need a buyers broker?
George - Respectfully I say...

Being so new to this boat-world; You Need To Be Very CAREFUL!

Beside fact that you could get into the wrong boat... with OMG bummer $$$$ outcome - lasting for years... just starting into a deal that goes sour may cost you hundreds, a grand... or more!

I second RT's suggestion: Recommend you get a competent boat broker on you side.

Best Luck My Friend!
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Old 02-22-2015, 01:02 AM   #111
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Frgeorgeh,

Everyone has to call their own shots. You don't really know what make, size, style of boat you really want which means you've probably done little or no research on a specific vessel.
I'd suggest you rent an apartment for a few months while you look at various boats both in person and on Yachtworld to narrow your search down a bit. Once you have a brand/style in mind you can study and research the goods and bads so you can better recognize a good boat when you see it. Also, you'll have more time to compare comps and to understand the current market worth for each individual make/model. Lastly, many boat types/brands have online clubs that can provide you valuable pre purchase watch outs. Use these clubs to arm yourself as the cost of a live aboard size boat usually represents a rather large sum of your very hard earned retirement cash!
Very best to you and your wife and get well soon!!
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Old 02-22-2015, 01:14 AM   #112
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To add to Jim's excellent comments, you also might want to think about chartering the type of boat you're interested in for a week or two to see if you and your wife even like the cruising boat experience.

I suspect you would find that a high proportion of the folks on Trawler Forum who are very happy with the boats they own and their boating experience started out by chartering first to test the waters. It's a very smart way to get started in my opinion.
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Old 02-22-2015, 02:16 AM   #113
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George I hope you are taking all these meaningful, helpful post to heart.


We who have decades in boating have seen and experienced a lot.


Tiz obvious we all feel compassion for you and yours.

Please take this process slow.


Art
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Old 02-22-2015, 05:46 AM   #114
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Perhaps another point of view, which doesn't often get an airing in these boat-buying threads is the point of view of the lowly seller, so, being in that situation now myself, I'll dare to venture one.

It is a bit easy in this exercise to start thinking of everyone selling a boat as some sort of shyster trying to inflict a faulty boat on some unsuspecting buyer at a grossly inflated price.

I suggest that is not really likely. I can tell you now, effectively, virtually all brokers end up largely a buyer's broker, even when the seller has listed the vessel with them to act on their behalf, because unless the boat is sold, they get nothing. So, consciously, or possibly unconsciously in some cases, to address this issue, the first thing they tend to do is to try and convince the seller to modify their (admittedly, sometimes) unrealistic idea of how much their boat is worth. That I can vouch for having just been through all that.

Believe me, it is a bit soul destroying when a boat into which you have invested a huge amount of time, effort, and money, is valued at being worth thousands less than you feel it should be, often "because the markets so depressed as a result of the down-turn, GFC, whatever". There's always seems to be a reason why the market is depressed when you are selling, but buoyant when you are buying, in my experience.

So, when you are the one with the money in your pocket, bank or wherever, I'm not suggesting you take pity on the poor sod, and offer more than it's worth, but maybe pitching in with a really low offer, way below what it is worth, is not the best way to treat a fellow boatie either. Because, without sellers, there would be lean pickings for buyers, and often the seller has done the hard yards in refurbishing the boat, (like mine - 13 years of loving labour, and many thousands of dollars - too much the wife says), so all the buyer has to do is walk on, turn the key, and go cruising.

Just sayin'
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Old 02-22-2015, 06:51 PM   #115
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George - Respectfully I say...

Being so new to this boat-world; You Need To Be Very CAREFUL!


Best Luck My Friend!
Thank you! Good advice for sure
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Old 02-23-2015, 11:39 AM   #116
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I can tell you folks one thing I have discovered. It is very hard to get a Broker to respond to you when you are looking for a boat in our price range. It seems that if you are not looking in the 160k to 300k range they really do not want to fool with you. Can't say that I blame them but it is certainly frustrating.

UGH!
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Old 02-23-2015, 12:13 PM   #117
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I can tell you folks one thing I have discovered. It is very hard to get a Broker to respond to you when you are looking for a boat in our price range. It seems that if you are not looking in the 160k to 300k range they really do not want to fool with you. Can't say that I blame them but it is certainly frustrating.

UGH!
Hi George

I might suggest:

Tell the broker(s) you are looking in the price range of from $XX,000 (whatever it is you actually want to spend; and, may I ask - what is that range?) up into the 200K + plus price range. Tell them you want to be sure that you get to see a wide selection of boats so you can best determine which price range boats best suit your needs.

Let them know that you are brand new to the boat market but that you have boat savvy friends willing to discuss all items with you regarding any boat you may become interested. Therefore, TF to your rescue. Please feel free to ask any question.

Well impress upon them that if they only lead you to the higher priced boats and do not give you ample opportunity to compare that with lower priced boats that it will not be long before you no longer visit boats they recommend... as it would be clear that they were not keeping your best interests at hand.

In other words: Via honest and clear manner - Work Em! ... if they seem to refuse to provide the service you deserve!

Don't get too frustrated. Boats require patients regarding all aspects; shopping is just the beginning of that quality's need.

Happy Boat-Shopping/Buying Daze - Art
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Old 02-23-2015, 02:47 PM   #118
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I somewhat understand brokers not wanting to spend time on lower cost boats. A bit shortsighted in my view, but that's what you have to deal with. I have found that the mention of "cash sale" and the ability to close quickly if a suitable boat is found helps. In other words, let them know you are a serious buyer, not just a looker. Also, let them know that you are a fairly low maintenance buyer and be prepared to do the legwork yourself.
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Old 02-24-2015, 12:13 AM   #119
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I can tell you folks one thing I have discovered. It is very hard to get a Broker to respond to you when you are looking for a boat in our price range. It seems that if you are not looking in the 160k to 300k range they really do not want to fool with you. Can't say that I blame them but it is certainly frustrating.
Did I miss the price range you're looking in?
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Old 02-24-2015, 12:54 AM   #120
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Did I miss the price range you're looking in?
No, he has not given the price range they are hoping to stay within.
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