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Old 09-08-2012, 03:05 AM   #21
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Hi Bill, Welcome aboard! Are you keeping the Careel 22? Friends just sold their 18 to buy a much larger yacht, they had nothing but praise for it.

Others on the Forum will be much more help on fuel needs and other considerations. Were it me, I`d be asking about the volume of courage to load and and a safety reserve, especially with a single engine and no "get home" auxiliary, though I understand the John Deere is a good long distance engine.
Friends who had multiple near disasters bringing a newly acquired boat with a near perfect (NOT) Survey, from Southport to Sydney now have high regard for Marine Rescue and the Water Police. Even if you have high skills and competency, think about it, weigh up fuel,insurance and other costs against shipping freight cost. Within Australia road freight can cost less.
I hope the planning goes well. There is quite a contingent of Aussies on the Forum who will be very interested and welcoming.BruceK, Sydney Australia.
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:45 AM   #22
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Crossing the Pacific under your own diesel

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lots of info here...

http://www.nordhavn.com/newsroom/art..._07-01_ATW.pdf

Cheers,
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Thanks for that pointer HW, good info' as you said mate
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Hi Bill, Welcome aboard! Are you keeping the Careel 22? Friends just sold their 18 to buy a much larger yacht, they had nothing but praise for it.
G'day Bruce, yes mate, I'll be selling my Careel 22, I'm getting to be a bit long in the tooth even for a T/S but that's life. Time for me to look for a Trawler that won't cost me two kidneys an arm and a leg to buy...As they do in Oz
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Others on the Forum will be much more help on fuel needs and other considerations. Were it me, I`d be asking about the volume of courage to load and and a safety reserve, especially with a single engine and no "get home" auxiliary, though I understand the John Deere is a good long distance engine.
Friends who had multiple near disasters bringing a newly acquired boat with a near perfect (NOT) Survey, from Southport to Sydney now have high regard for Marine Rescue and the Water Police. Even if you have high skills and competency, think about it, weigh up fuel,insurance and other costs against shipping freight cost. Within Australia road freight can cost less.
I hope the planning goes well. There is quite a contingent of Aussies on the Forum who will be very interested and welcoming.BruceK, Sydney Australia.
Thanks for that Bruce, being a retired seaman, merchant service, engineering, plus running a fishing boat out of Brixham, Devon, England, I'm well used to cruising the worlds oceans on a single engine, big engines but only one engine just the same, so I do not see a boat having just one engine as a problem.
Diesels are extremely reliable...Just as long as they are kept clean and have their due services.
The trawler I'm looking at had her entire propulsion system, engine, transmission, drive shaft, shaft seal, cutlass bearing, and prop, all were replaced by John Deere back in 2007, so I'm sure owners who have gone to the expense of replacing the full drive system would not have skimped on servicing that system. Anyway, I'm still making enquiries and I'm still looking in AU and NZ for a similar trawler...Who knows, I may find a similar set-up trawler, at a reasonable price here in Oz but I doubt it.


Cheers Bruce.


Bill
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:18 AM   #23
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G'day mates,

I'm new here and hope this post is in the right section.

I'm another Aussie thinking strongly of buying in the USA, registering the Trawler in Oz then importing the boat from FL in the USA to New Zealand.
Can anyone, preferably someone who has completed a Pacific crossing in a Trawler, provide information on the amount of diesel needed to cross the Pacific in a 42' 35,000lbs Trawler fitted with a 2007 John Deere: 4045TFM75 Engine, Total Power: 135 HP, with a cruising speed of 7 knots @ 1600 RPM (Reported Fuel consumption - 1.5 gallons per hour @ 1600 rpm (7.2 knots) How much fuel would the trawler need to carry to safely cross the Pacific between diesel stops, keeping say, 25% diesel in reserve for safety, and what, in your opinion, would be the safest route from FL, USA to NZ?


Thanking you in advance for any advice.


Bill
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Wow! Thats a heck of a trip in a 42' boat. It could be done, but it would have to be the right boat.

You need to do some serious route pre-planning before you even contemplate that kind of voyage. I would start with the big ones (passages) first because they are the deal breakers for any boat. Grab a map and just look at best case distances starting with the panama canal since thats going to be your entry point into the pacific.


Then ask yourself if the boat you are considering purchasing even capable of that kind of passage. Not just in terms of fuel capacity but in terms of survivability on long open water passages.

Get those two things out of the way first, as the answers to them will tell you if the concept is even worth persuing.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:15 AM   #24
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Crossing the Pacific under your own diesel

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Wow! Thats a heck of a trip in a 42' boat. It could be done, but it would have to be the right boat.

You need to do some serious route pre-planning before you even contemplate that kind of voyage. I would start with the big ones (passages) first because they are the deal breakers for any boat. Grab a map and just look at best case distances starting with the panama canal since thats going to be your entry point into the pacific.


Then ask yourself if the boat you are considering purchasing even capable of that kind of passage. Not just in terms of fuel capacity but in terms of survivability on long open water passages.

Get those two things out of the way first, as the answers to them will tell you if the concept is even worth persuing.
I hear you loud and clear mate. The planning is all important but you know what they say about the best laid plans The right boat is also important but remember the unsinkable Titanic, she went down on a calm sea on her maiden voyage but I hear your advice loud and clear.
I am not out to make or break any records, nor do I want to circumnavigate the globe, I simply want to get a Trawler, safe as possible, from the States to Australia at the best possible rate and if that means driving the trawler across the Pacific under her own power, then it's something I would seriously consider. I would like to get the trawler to New Zealand and keep it there for several months cruising NZ before cruising on and importing the boat into Oz, via Hobart, but doing that would still involve crossing the ditch (The Tasman Sea) that leg alone, from Wellington, NZ to Hobart, AU, would be around 1226 nautical miles, from Panama to Tahiti would be easly double that distance. For speed, and perhaps safety, it would be better to piggy-back the trawler as deck cargo to NZ, then make the crossing from NZ to AU under her own steam.


It's still early days, that trawler, built in Rumery's Boat Yard in America, is tempting but...I may find a suitable boat for my needs here in Oz or NZ, so I'm not making any fast decisions on any boat...No-matter how tempting the boat looks to be.


Cheers mate,



Bill
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:53 AM   #25
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Buying A Boat In The States Or...

G'day mates,


I apologise in advance for this long/ish post.
I have been asked on another forum "Why do you look at buying a boat in the States? You would be better of to buy where you plan on cruising...Australia or New Zealand"
And I guess that's true...To a point. The truth is, to many Australian and New Zealand boat sellers "believe wrongly" they have a closed market. They believe, wrongly, that Australians and New Zealanders looking to buy a boat can only buy in AU or NZ.

It's the same with a lot of other retailers here in AU...They believe, wrongly, that they have a protected market, buyers who need a product must buy from them! Nothing could be farther from the truth!

Back in 1996-98 I was trying to get local Australian businesses to get into online marketing of their business but I did not succeed. Every one of the businesses I talked with believed, wrongly, and told me...Computers and this Internet thing is just a fad and will soon die-off. Boy! Were they ever wrong!
Today those same businesses are blaming everything but themselves, for their drop in sales, in-shop clients and income. Some are closing branches and some are even blaming business failures on...The Internet! Or rather, people doing their shopping on the Internet!
I have been shopping online since around 1995, I have bought from China, the UK, Canada and the States and in all that I have bought online, I had only three complaints about a product, all three complaints were promptly dealt with and I was a happy shopper.
The last thing I bought on-line was a Master Cylinder for my LR Discovery. The Aussie suppliers were asking from $350 to $397 for the unit. I ordered one on-line from a LR supplier in the UK for a total cost, postage included of...$136

Why do Aus' and Kiwi boat sellers still believe they have a captured market? Don't they know buyers can find a better deal elsewhere, like in the States.

With this 1974 Australian Ferro Cement Coastal Cruiser, the seller is asking AU $87,000

With this 1967 American Fibreglass Coastal Cruiser, the seller is asking US $49,900

Which would be the better buy? I believe the American boat, with her newer FULL drive-train, even after adding an extra 30% cost for importing the boat from the States. $49,900US + 30% = $64,870US = $ 62,892AU. So even if you paid the full asking price and 30% for importing the American boat, you would still save $24,108AU

Like it or not, today we ALL live in a global market, and if we want to compete and sell our products, whatever those products may be, we need to price the product to compete in the global market...Specially when we advertise the product on the Internet where a buyer from anywhere in the world MAY end-up being the buyer of your product.

Or am I getting this all wrong

Bill
Australia
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:06 AM   #26
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G'day mates,

I apologise in advance for this long/ish post.
I disdain longish posts. So haven't read your message. My loss.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:07 AM   #27
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You can probably save a bit by buying in the US, but the big advantage is the wider range and better quality in the US. How much you save will depend on how you do the import. Recently the final quote for my 50ft 30 tonne motor cruiser arrived - just shy of $100,000 ex: Vancouver to Brisbane. Shipping rates have gone up recently they were telling me. They might come down again, who knows. Best to get something that is small, or that can sail back on her own bottom. Otherwise savings from a purchase in the US wont be much.

In my case, just before I had to decide what to do about that quote (a simple decision really...) I discovered leaking fuel tanks. So I decided to do an extensive refit in the US, including repower and enlarged tanks. Once I'm back in the water I'll head south from PNW and check actual range versus calculations, plus my appetite for an Ocean crossing. Plan B would be shipping from the float on - float off vessel south of the US, a much cheaper option than the cradle based shipping ex: Vancouver.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:24 AM   #28
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... what, in your opinion, would be the safest route from FL, USA to NZ?
Direct to Port Everglades then after watching the boat loaded on one of the yacht transport ships that frequent the port, a business class flight from FLL to LAX then AKL.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:42 AM   #29
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You can probably save a bit by buying in the US, but the big advantage is the wider range and better quality in the US. How much you save will depend on how you do the import. Recently the final quote for my 50ft 30 tonne motor cruiser arrived - just shy of $100,000 ex: Vancouver to Brisbane. Shipping rates have gone up recently they were telling me. They might come down again, who knows. Best to get something that is small, or that can sail back on her own bottom. Otherwise savings from a purchase in the US wont be much.

In my case, just before I had to decide what to do about that quote (a simple decision really...) I discovered leaking fuel tanks. So I decided to do an extensive refit in the US, including repower and enlarged tanks. Once I'm back in the water I'll head south from PNW and check actual range versus calculations, plus my appetite for an Ocean crossing. Plan B would be shipping from the float on - float off vessel south of the US, a much cheaper option than the cradle based shipping ex: Vancouver.
G'day mate,


Unlike my now deceased brother who ran his business out of Canada and the States, I am not a wealthy man. My brother was a wealthy man, he would give tips of $5,000 to a croupier when he had had a good night at the casino. Perhaps he just wanted others to know he was wealthy...Whatever! He was a big tipper and thought nothing of blowing 5 or 20 thousand dollars but as I have said, I'm not a wealthy man, so making a saving of 5,000, or in the case of the American boat in my earlier post, $24,108AU after importing, would be a big saving to me, and I bet that saving would come in handy down the track.


I know I would be better of buying a sail-boat or a motor/sailor that I could cruise back to Australia on it's own bum, this beautiful 12m Island Trader Pilothouse Motor/sailor would have been just the ticket, and the boat was on the right-for-me side of the USA but I was to late...She's now marked as Sold
Never mind, I may still find a suitable boat her in AU or NZ...Something like this Davidson 43 in NZ. -The 12m Island Trader is a 1987 Fibreglass/GRP while the Davidson 43 is around a 1971 (the broker say Launched Apx 1971) and it's a Ferro-Cement yacht. The yachts are priced at $69,000NZD and $69,900USD.


I won't go after any sail-boat in a rush as I'm now at an age where I believe a power cruiser, like a Trawler, would be a more suitable boat for my needs but who knows...If I find the right motor/sailor I may be tempted

Bill
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:21 PM   #30
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You might want to look at going north to Alaska, follow then Aleutian Islands across to South Korea/Japan and down Asian coast. At least you would not have an ocean crossing. The other is going south to Chile to Easter Island then to Polynesia Islands as the distance is shorter. Probable cheaper shipping south of the board than in the US. As I mentioned before there are a lot of used/older vehicle and boats being shipped out of the US.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:22 PM   #31
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Like it or not, today we ALL live in a global market, and if we want to compete and sell our products, whatever those products may be, we need to price the product to compete in the global market...Specially when we advertise the product on the Internet where a buyer from anywhere in the world MAY end-up being the buyer of your product.

Or am I getting this all wrong

Bill
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Right on, Bill! I have been in the same boat. I remember working with boat brokers in the late '90s trying to get them to utilize the "world wide web", but most of them - just like you found - thought the internet was a fad and that "Nothing would ever replace the BUC guide". I always thought those were the same people who were the last to get a fax machine ("I don't have a need for one") and are now the dying breed that thinks everyone still faxes... Now I'm trying to get the same boat brokers to utilize quality video production for their higher end listings. My argument is, though a video may or may not immediately result in the sale of a particular boat, having such well-produced videos will help to increase that brokers listings. But, that's for another thread...

And I don't mind longish posts, provided they are intelligently written. I can usually tell within the first few sentences or paragraphs whether or not it's worth my time to continue reading. Suffice to say, I did read your entire post.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:45 PM   #32
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You might want to look at going north to Alaska, follow then Aleutian Islands across to South Korea/Japan and down Asian coast.
Geez P/F, have you ever made that trip?

It is hardly a casual cruise down the ICW.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:24 PM   #33
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Bill
The other thing i did not say was that the boat price for an older boat, assuming the hull is basically sound, is in large part related to the systems: extent, quality and condition.

If you want cheap boat then you will want simple systems that are self-repairable, and not more than the bare minimum of them. Boat $$ get eaten real fast in dealing with extensive and complicated systems.
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:53 AM   #34
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You might want to look at going north to Alaska, follow then Aleutian Islands across to South Korea/Japan and down Asian coast. At least you would not have an ocean crossing. The other is going south to Chile to Easter Island then to Polynesia Islands as the distance is shorter. Probable cheaper shipping south of the board than in the US. As I mentioned before there are a lot of used/older vehicle and boats being shipped out of the US.
Thanks for the Northern tip Phil but I think I would stick to the South Pacafic mate
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:01 AM   #35
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Right on, Bill! I have been in the same boat. I remember working with boat brokers in the late '90s trying to get them to utilize the "world wide web", but most of them - just like you found - thought the internet was a fad and that "Nothing would ever replace the BUC guide". I always thought those were the same people who were the last to get a fax machine ("I don't have a need for one") and are now the dying breed that thinks everyone still faxes... Now I'm trying to get the same boat brokers to utilize quality video production for their higher end listings. My argument is, though a video may or may not immediately result in the sale of a particular boat, having such well-produced videos will help to increase that brokers listings. But, that's for another thread...

And I don't mind longish posts, provided they are intelligently written. I can usually tell within the first few sentences or paragraphs whether or not it's worth my time to continue reading. Suffice to say, I did read your entire post.
G'day MF, I wish you all the luck in the world in your video productions for other businesses...Been there too, about ten or more years back, spent thousands on the special software and camera gear, all a waste of time and money so I packed everything in, sold-up and retired. I had had enough of to last me a lifetime. Now I just want to go cruising and fishing...Besides, I'm old enough to do that now

Good luck with things,

Bill
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:10 AM   #36
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Bill
The other thing i did not say was that the boat price for an older boat, assuming the hull is basically sound, is in large part related to the systems: extent, quality and condition.

If you want cheap boat then you will want simple systems that are self-repairable, and not more than the bare minimum of them. Boat $$ get eaten real fast in dealing with extensive and complicated systems.
I hear you mate. Being a retired merchant seaman (engineering) and holder of a inshore skippers ticket, and having worked on repairing OP boats all over the world, and having operated my own 35 and 45' fishing boats (trawlers...I bought both those timber boats second hand, no surveyor involved) I believe I should be able to make a sensible judgement on a second hand boat and it's engine-room gear but as I'm no expert, I'm not shy when it comes to seeking advice from others who could well know more than I on any subject


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Old 10-25-2012, 12:05 PM   #37
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Geez P/F, have you ever made that trip?

It is hardly a casual cruise down the ICW.

No! But born and grew up around Ocean falls, have visited several relatives in that area. If I was going to head straight north, I would follow the commercial trawlers as they go in groups.

There was a old member of PMM, Pope Thomas, which we became friend with. Seemingly very unlike match, but opposites do attract. Anyway he bought a used Diesel duck in Japan and was going to bring her back using the northern rout. In the end he decided to ship to the west coast and take it though the Panama Canal to Florida.

What ever route it will take a capable long range boat and not for the faint of heart. Crossing an ocean does not appeal to me, but heading up to Alaska is sort of in our plans. At least you could hop from harbor/town with a couple hundred miles in between rather than thousands.
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:02 PM   #38
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G'day mates,


I apologise in advance for this long/ish post.
I have been asked on another forum "Why do you look at buying a boat in the States? You would be better of to buy where you plan on cruising...Australia or New Zealand"
And I guess that's true...To a point. The truth is, to many Australian and New Zealand boat sellers "believe wrongly" they have a closed market. They believe, wrongly, that Australians and New Zealanders looking to buy a boat can only buy in AU or NZ.

It's the same with a lot of other retailers here in AU...They believe, wrongly, that they have a protected market, buyers who need a product must buy from them! Nothing could be farther from the truth!

Back in 1996-98 I was trying to get local Australian businesses to get into online marketing of their business but I did not succeed. Every one of the businesses I talked with believed, wrongly, and told me...Computers and this Internet thing is just a fad and will soon die-off. Boy! Were they ever wrong!
Today those same businesses are blaming everything but themselves, for their drop in sales, in-shop clients and income. Some are closing branches and some are even blaming business failures on...The Internet! Or rather, people doing their shopping on the Internet!
I have been shopping online since around 1995, I have bought from China, the UK, Canada and the States and in all that I have bought online, I had only three complaints about a product, all three complaints were promptly dealt with and I was a happy shopper.
The last thing I bought on-line was a Master Cylinder for my LR Discovery. The Aussie suppliers were asking from $350 to $397 for the unit. I ordered one on-line from a LR supplier in the UK for a total cost, postage included of...$136

Why do Aus' and Kiwi boat sellers still believe they have a captured market? Don't they know buyers can find a better deal elsewhere, like in the States.

With this 1974 Australian Ferro Cement Coastal Cruiser, the seller is asking AU $87,000

With this 1967 American Fibreglass Coastal Cruiser, the seller is asking US $49,900

Which would be the better buy? I believe the American boat, with her newer FULL drive-train, even after adding an extra 30% cost for importing the boat from the States. $49,900US + 30% = $64,870US = $ 62,892AU. So even if you paid the full asking price and 30% for importing the American boat, you would still save $24,108AU

Like it or not, today we ALL live in a global market, and if we want to compete and sell our products, whatever those products may be, we need to price the product to compete in the global market...Specially when we advertise the product on the Internet where a buyer from anywhere in the world MAY end-up being the buyer of your product.

Or am I getting this all wrong

Bill
Australia
Wow sounds like Alaska before Wal-Mart, Lowes and target......100%-200% markup!
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:26 PM   #39
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No! But born and grew up around Ocean falls, have visited several relatives in that area. If I was going to head straight north, I would follow the commercial trawlers as they go in groups.

Ocean Falls! Now there's a name I havn't heard for many years, my Dad also lived in Ocean Falls, BC, back in the 20's-30's...I can still recall the many stories he told me about logging, hunting and fishing around Ocean Falls, he made Ocean Falls sound like Heaven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Fill View Post
There was a old member of PMM, Pope Thomas, which we became friend with. Seemingly very unlike match, but opposites do attract. Anyway he bought a used Diesel duck in Japan and was going to bring her back using the northern rout. In the end he decided to ship to the west coast and take it though the Panama Canal to Florida.

What ever route it will take a capable long range boat and not for the faint of heart. Crossing an ocean does not appeal to me, but heading up to Alaska is sort of in our plans. At least you could hop from harbor/town with a couple hundred miles in between rather than thousands.
The northern rout, with harbors/towns being a couple hundred miles in between plus a large commercial trawlers fleet, sound better than the southern route with thousands of miles between ports, sound much more feasable to me...Please tell me more about the northern route Phill

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Old 10-26-2012, 06:50 AM   #40
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"... going north to Alaska, follow then Aleutian Islands across to South Korea/Japan and down Asian coast."


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Please tell me more about the northern route Phill
Yeah, I want to read that post too ...
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